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View Full Version : defensive meta turtlefest still in for season 4??



Miadous
11-11-2017, 11:08 PM
I haven't been on these forums in several months, but I'm not hearing anything new regarding the defensive meta. Did those changes get scrapped altogether? I played a couple of matches recently to get back into it for season 4, but it's still just people turtling. I'm a berserker main so it probably makes me angrier than most since we just have to stare at them or feint and hope they fall for it. What happened to all these gameplay/defensive changes that have been in the works for the past half year? :confused:

DoctorMcBatman
11-11-2017, 11:14 PM
Some changes have been instituted gradually. Chip damage was notably raised, among a myriad of other moderate to minor changes - mostly on a hero by hero basis rather than across the roster. The underlying mechanics are pretty much all the same as they were a few months ago.

The defense meta changes are referenced every now and then by mods, but it doesn't seem to be coming soon. I'd guess S5 or off season after 4 at the earliest. Hopefully the next big project after dedicated servers.

CandleInTheDark
11-11-2017, 11:17 PM
Except for parry, everything that was tried in the PTR, from chip damage to out of stamina being more dangerous was implemented. The main one is going to be the parry fix, the thing is the PC community sent the devs back to square zero with their feedback, they didn't like the heavy parry reward, they disliked that the light parry was the same reward and they disliked the bit that benefited an attacker most, that people could not parry when out of stamina or when someone was throwing an attack while in revenge. So that is the bit the devs haven't put in yet, they said they still hope to change parry in season 4.

vgrimr_J
11-12-2017, 10:24 AM
imo this is meta change is only needed for pc. dont screw us console players over. we can actually attack here in higher play

Oupyz
11-12-2017, 01:36 PM
parry needs to go at least heavy parries for now , heavy parry shouldn't reward gb on some character :/ this is so broken

BTTrinity
11-12-2017, 04:40 PM
I feel like they're trying to hold off on the "Defense Meta Fix" until they rework a few characters that cant deal with turtles.

Miadous
11-13-2017, 05:41 AM
I feel like they're trying to hold off on the "Defense Meta Fix" until they rework a few characters that cant deal with turtles.

They haven't reworked a character since release. The only thing they do is tweak numbers on attack speed or recovery animations. It's obvious at this point they're not going to add or change a hero's moveset. If you want to have fun and enjoy the game, you have to be newly released characters that actually have mechanics to them, otherwise you're just making it harder on yourself. For example, look at the Shaman coming out. She makes every hero look and feel completely outdated.

CandleInTheDark
11-13-2017, 11:27 AM
They haven't reworked a character since release. The only thing they do is tweak numbers on attack speed or recovery animations. It's obvious at this point they're not going to add or change a hero's moveset. If you want to have fun and enjoy the game, you have to be newly released characters that actually have mechanics to them, otherwise you're just making it harder on yourself. For example, look at the Shaman coming out. She makes every hero look and feel completely outdated.

Actually they are working on motion capture for new moves with different heroes in different[phases of that process. First batch of planned reworks are conqueror, kensei and berserker. Same team is also working on the defensive meta stuff so yeah it doesn't all come at once.

CandleInTheDark
11-13-2017, 03:50 PM
u are always defending Ubisoft.. whats wrong with u.

(Snip - I wouldn't normally but your post is long and so is mine)



People seem to be so set in the belief that because I don't trash Ubi at every turn then I must be blindly defending or cheerleading them which is so wrong it is amusing.

So I was defending them when in pretty much the first two months I was here most of my posts were over how my main's light spam needed dealing with and that the planned changes would only make that worse? Or how about the fact that I went to town on them when they implied the season 2 finale was closer than it was, that it was not transparent and that they changed the rewards without telling us thereby annoying both the winners and the runners up? Also had a go at them over rewards changing this season without prior word despite the fact it was my faction that benefited from it and before both free weekends have said why are you doing this before you get servers in? When I see something wrong that I feel was avoidable, i tell them as much and why I feel that way, I don't need to use capital letters or mis-spell cuss words to get around the language filter to do it. Pretty sure anyone that takes time to go over my post history will see I am a mouthy git when I get opinionated but if that is blindly defending them then whatever.

On the other hand they are trying something entirely new. I have seen only two games like this, one of them had no pvp and the other it was tacked on as an afterthought, so they are trying something new and anyone reasonable would allow that there is going to be a learning curve for them, especially as ubisoft hasn't made a fighter (and it is a fighter in part at least), as far as I am aware, before this. About the only thing they would have known for sure is that industry standard is peer to peer and there are reasons for that, so while yes we can sit here and say it would have been better to go with dedicated servers from the start, they had a valid reasoning that was strong enough they tried to fix what was their first choice and when they realised that if they were going to keep it going they would need to make the change they started on that which does not happen overnight and they told us so that while it might take a while, we would know it was coming.

Same with balancing, since when has ubisoft had to worry about that before this game? But they are working on it and it is made no easier by the fact that even when most people can agree a character is op, there is no consensus on what needs fixing first. Add in the fact that they didn't set out to try and break their game before release (ok, that I might give they were a little naive in that, I would hire people to try to do just that) and when something seems like this works to how we intended it and people mess around with unlocks to see if they can break it or they go to one move that the devs probably only intended to just be there as an option, then they have to figure out the best way going forward.

As for the reworks and the fight system, they are trying to change a whole meta and they are trying to get it right first time, they are testing things,most of those are going in, only the bit that got bad feedback isn't and it is a shame that it relates to what needs changing most. And as they said over reworks, that starts with motion capture which isn't a short process itself, then they have to work out how to get it into the current kit and how to keep it balanced.

So yes there have been a few flaws and it can seem to us that they are working slowly on them, but they are making progress in every patch, they are listening to us, they communicate with us every week and they have delivered on enough things they have promised that yes I give them a little more benefit of the doubt than apparently some people do. I have also seen companies treat their consumers a lot worse, EA defending their pay to win system in Battlefront 2, which For Honor does not have, recently became the most downvoted reddit post in history and Bungie, when Destiny was screwed up by their patch, blamed the playerbase for 48 hours before working on a fix and it was another couple days before they had one.

Herbstlicht
11-13-2017, 05:09 PM
Personally hard to tell if it will be better for you.
For example, if you love the Highlander, you are in for weird bugs and behaviour that makes the game feel less polished then before.
If you go with the flow and enjoy gladiator, it might feel rather nice and swift.
But still their balancing seems off to a degree one might call it incurable.
Might be just me, but I think with shaman they release the strongest hero ever, even by some margin, without having addressed the old cast.
And this is pretty damn bad. I'd say they still move a step forward to still fall two steps behind. The struggling that comes after then takes awfully long and might once again take another chunk of this games playerbase.
Remember centurion? Shaman might be worse.

IesooMI
11-13-2017, 05:27 PM
Well we have Glad who excels at cracking turtles but people want him nerfed, and shamans coming who also looks great at
Opening people up but ya know everyone wants her nerfed into the ground already. So I don't
See the def meta going anywhere for awhile because the community dosent know what it wants

Herbstlicht
11-13-2017, 05:56 PM
Well we have Glad who excels at cracking turtles but people want him nerfed, and shamans coming who also looks great at
Opening people up but ya know everyone wants her nerfed into the ground already. So I don't
See the def meta going anywhere for awhile because the community dosent know what it wants

Guess most want a working balanced game.
Giving away one new hero to dominate them all isn't the solution.

Besides, the best approach with all this would even come with platform specific changes.

But that's something we won't see.

Linnix1
11-13-2017, 05:58 PM
It's because the entire fighting system is built around reaction. The system was built for you to wait for an attack an counter it. I remember when I first saw gameplay for For Honor as a guy that grew up on so many fighters I could tell that the very basis of the system is defensive play. For every hit the devs do to the turtles the rest of the playerbase will get hit twice as hard