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View Full Version : Put 1-2 Second Cooldown on Warden's Shoulder Bash & Conq Shield Bash



SlickCriminal27
11-11-2017, 01:11 PM
How much longer will these trashy *** cowards use this noob skill to their advantage? Bash, hit, bash, hit over and over. It's about time a cooldown timer is put on these noob attacks. I was thinking on Lawbringers shove as well, but his shove is easily dodgeable and does not repeat like the other two.

Useless no skill cancers are bred from this played out p@ssy tactic. Time to put an end to this.

EDIT: I just remembered they are going to implement the GB on roll in Season 4, making Warden's Shoulder Bash even more OP LOL. What to do now then?

Nokhchalla
11-11-2017, 01:12 PM
+1000

MafiaRider
11-11-2017, 01:13 PM
Agree, really dont know why Ubisoft hasn't done this before.

Jarl.Felix
11-11-2017, 01:14 PM
All you have to do is to dodge or press doudble space.... but when you are so low skilled you do posts like this =))

Priceless.

Stahlrusse
11-11-2017, 01:27 PM
All you have to do is to dodge or press doudble space.... but when you are so low skilled you do posts like this =))

Priceless.

no you ****ing can't most of the time.

SlickCriminal27
11-11-2017, 01:44 PM
All you have to do is to dodge or press doudble space.... but when you are so low skilled you do posts like this =))

Priceless.

Oh, you mean that crap that works like 10% of the time? Sure thing. What else to expect from someone who mains a Warden and Conqueror lol. Gtfo this thread.

ChampionRuby50g
11-11-2017, 03:04 PM
Conqs shield bash is pretty easy to dodge IMO, Wardens yeah a bit harder but not nerf worthy. Just roll out, it's worked for me with at least 90% success rate.

Baggin_
11-11-2017, 03:06 PM
Conqs shield bash is pretty easy to dodge IMO, Wardens yeah a bit harder but not nerf worthy. Just roll out, it's worked for me with at least 90% success rate.

Rolling out is annoying, just make it so you don't have to roll out.

MafiaRider
11-11-2017, 03:38 PM
Conqs shield bash is pretty easy to dodge IMO, Wardens yeah a bit harder but not nerf worthy. Just roll out, it's worked for me with at least 90% success rate.

It is absolutely nerf worthy, I don't know which characters you play since it "works 90% of the time", but for big boys like Shugoki, LB etc. it works like 10% of the time as already mentioned above.

Nokhchalla
11-11-2017, 03:44 PM
It is absolutely nerf worthy, I don't know which characters you play since it "works 90% of the time", but for big boys like Shugoki, LB etc. it works like 10% of the time as already mentioned above.

Exactly, everytime I meat a Warden it is ALWAYS this shoulder bash crap they use, and dont forget they'll guardbreak you as well when you try to roll out, which they succeed in almost all the time.

SlickCriminal27
11-11-2017, 03:56 PM
Conqs shield bash is pretty easy to dodge IMO, Wardens yeah a bit harder but not nerf worthy. Just roll out, it's worked for me with at least 90% success rate.

Conqs shield bash is exactly the same as Wardens shoulder bash, it's not easy to dodge. These noob attacks have been a thorn in my eye for way too long now, it's the single most hated mechanic of this game for me, it's time to end this.

DaLast_Samurai
11-11-2017, 04:07 PM
With Orochi I just side dodge attack (Zephry Slash), and Warden's Shoulder Bash = damage to him only.
Everytime.
Shrugs*

SlickCriminal27
11-11-2017, 04:12 PM
With Orochi I just side dodge attack (Zephry Slash), and Warden's Shoulder Bash = damage to him only.
Everytime.
Shrugs*

Yea but that wont work with other characters...

Stahlrusse
11-11-2017, 05:07 PM
Conqs shield bash is pretty easy to dodge IMO, Wardens yeah a bit harder but not nerf worthy. Just roll out, it's worked for me with at least 90% success rate.

Please post a video of somebody dodging a warden vortex after light without really waiting and preparing for it.

I have a rep8 warden and not once did anyone dodge my vortex after light. They tried, I hit them anyway. After you got one vortex connected, you have to play 50/50 mindgames. Depending on the outcome you can almost kill someone with one combo or do only minor damage.

Winning with warden is like a coin toss, notihng to do with skill (some exceptions are there though).

You are not a good player just because you coincidentally did the right 50/50 move. That is why warden is a bs character.

Stahlrusse
11-11-2017, 05:09 PM
Conqs shield bash is exactly the same as Wardens shoulder bash, it's not easy to dodge. These noob attacks have been a thorn in my eye for way too long now, it's the single most hated mechanic of this game for me, it's time to end this.

Conqs Shield Bash is different, because he cannot gb you after you dodge. Warden can.

SammyCannon
11-11-2017, 05:43 PM
Are you playing with laggers?
I find wardens SB quite easy to dodge.
Early when the animation start just dodge back and a free GB.
Besides he must dodge in a direction to start it, except when a light lands, so as soon he dodge be prepered for it.

SlickCriminal27
11-11-2017, 08:30 PM
Are you playing with laggers?
I find wardens SB quite easy to dodge.
Early when the animation start just dodge back and a free GB.
Besides he must dodge in a direction to start it, except when a light lands, so as soon he dodge be prepered for it.

Nope, playing with green nats, I didn't make this thread because these noob attacks happened to me a couple of times, they do it all the time and I have done my research that concludes it is almost impossible to dodge those attacks.

BarbeQMichael
11-11-2017, 08:47 PM
Really don't know how it can take almost a year to balance 2 moves. Rolling away is invalid answer as it means you cannot fight back. Especially warden is problematic, because if you play something slower than assassin, you cannot counter it. If you dodge, he cancels it into a guardbreak, and if not, you cannot attack fast enough to hit him. And if he does fully charge it, he gets hyperarmor so he can happily trade your 15dmg light for his 40dmg heavy.

SlickCriminal27
11-11-2017, 09:06 PM
Really don't know how it can take almost a year to balance 2 moves. Rolling away is invalid answer as it means you cannot fight back. Especially warden is problematic, because if you play something slower than assassin, you cannot counter it. If you dodge, he cancels it into a guardbreak, and if not, you cannot attack fast enough to hit him. And if he does fully charge it, he gets hyperarmor so he can happily trade your 15dmg light for his 40dmg heavy.

Yea, makes you wonder if these Devs themselves are taking advantage of it or not, doesn't it?

ArchDukeInstinct
11-11-2017, 09:35 PM
Conqs shield bash is exactly the same as Wardens shoulder bash, it's not easy to dodge. These noob attacks have been a thorn in my eye for way too long now, it's the single most hated mechanic of this game for me, it's time to end this.

Shield bash is nowhere near being "exactly the same" as shoulder charge, the most significant difference being that you cannot cancel a shield bash, so you cannot force a dodge that you can then cancel into guard break to counter the dodge. Dodging shield bash is just a matter of a little practice.

MafiaRider
11-11-2017, 09:54 PM
Since the following picture is an accurate representation of how Ubisoft employees work, I highly doubt they will fix this problem anyway, or they'll probably need like 4 years to do it.

http://paulgoodchild.net/blog/wp-content/gallery/blog-title-images/monkeys_at_keyboard.jpg

ChampionRuby50g
11-12-2017, 12:00 AM
It is absolutely nerf worthy, I don't know which characters you play since it "works 90% of the time", but for big boys like Shugoki, LB etc. it works like 10% of the time as already mentioned above.

I have a rep 36 LB, and it works when I play him. Just get a friend into a custom and practice the timing, it's seriously not That hard.

SlickCriminal27
11-12-2017, 12:53 PM
I have a rep 36 LB, and it works when I play him. Just get a friend into a custom and practice the timing, it's seriously not That hard.

Rolling out wont work anymore in S4, since they are implementing GB on roll.

Jarl.Felix
11-12-2017, 01:12 PM
Rolling out wont work anymore in S4, since they are implementing GB on roll.

That's not true.

Yeah, Ubisoft employees are widely known for mistaking even when they speak but they corrected that.

Illyrian_King
11-12-2017, 02:24 PM
How much longer will these trashy *** cowards use this noob skill to their advantage? Bash, hit, bash, hit over and over. It's about time a cooldown timer is put on these noob attacks. I was thinking on Lawbringers shove as well, but his shove is easily dodgeable and does not repeat like the other two.

Useless no skill cancers are bred from this played out p@ssy tactic. Time to put an end to this.

EDIT: I just remembered they are going to implement the GB on roll in Season 4, making Warden's Shoulder Bash even more OP LOL. What to do now then?


Well on warden I would apply it without thinking twice!

But Conq is overnerfed at the moment, so I would leave him out of this!

Nokhchalla
11-12-2017, 08:26 PM
Everyone agrees that Wardens shoulder bash should be nerfed, well obviously except for noobs who use it themselves. Note this down Devs and find a solution to it.

SammyCannon
11-12-2017, 10:38 PM
They should do something about the av after light, the first; dodge sb is dodgeble. Its the followup that is the problem.

Vonnivek
11-13-2017, 04:50 AM
They should do something about the av after light, the first; dodge sb is dodgeble. Its the followup that is the problem.

Warden isn't that good now, if both connection is good, warden is at medium tier maybe. Warden SB is good againt average level players though, I hate to fight againt warden too, but I still think warden is not on top tier now. I don't like 50/50 either, I would like to add more mixup to warden then nerf the SB.

Kaijudub
11-13-2017, 11:31 AM
Everyone agrees that Wardens shoulder bash should be nerfed, well obviously except for noobs who use it themselves. Note this down Devs and find a solution to it.

They really don't. Warden has already been nerfed to mid / low tier in high level play. Fight any level 3 bot as a warden and it will show you how easy it is to react too.

Or apply this nerf, take away litterally the only decent tool in his kit bag and no body will play him.

By definition the SB isn't a 50/50 as you can roll out of it. You'll also find if you do roll from the sb, your roll ends perfectly in time from the sb to then gb the warden.

Learn the game, stop spouting mis information.

BarbeQMichael
11-13-2017, 11:55 AM
They really don't. Warden has already been nerfed to mid / low tier in high level play. Fight any level 3 bot as a warden and it will show you how easy it is to react too.

Or apply this nerf, take away litterally the only decent tool in his kit bag and no body will play him.

By definition the SB isn't a 50/50 as you can roll out of it. You'll also find if you do roll from the sb, your roll ends perfectly in time from the sb to then gb the warden.

Learn the game, stop spouting mis information.

Warden is actually very strong, especially him having 400/500ms attacks from any direction. And as said above for the autowin sb spam, rolling away from it is not a solution as you cant fight back.

Kaijudub
11-13-2017, 12:05 PM
Warden is actually very strong, especially him having 400/500ms attacks from any direction. And as said above for the autowin sb spam, rolling away from it is not a solution as you cant fight back.

Again he really isn't. We tend to get these posts whenever theres a free weekend or an influx of new people.

His move set is one of the most limited in the game (5 moves) His top light is a frame beater but anything else in his kit is completely telegraphed. His CC requires a top light attack and some skill with the timing, and against high level players his SB is useless, even as an oos punish as you can just walk backwards.

Rolling away is a totally viable solution, and works. There is a solution already implemented, it's not our fault you don't like using it.

BarbeQMichael
11-13-2017, 12:48 PM
Again he really isn't. We tend to get these posts whenever theres a free weekend or an influx of new people.

His move set is one of the most limited in the game (5 moves) His top light is a frame beater but anything else in his kit is completely telegraphed. His CC requires a top light attack and some skill with the timing, and against high level players his SB is useless, even as an oos punish as you can just walk backwards.

Rolling away is a totally viable solution, and works. There is a solution already implemented, it's not our fault you don't like using it.

I'm not sure the new players can even use properly those mechanics yet, so if anything they make heroes appear weaker than they are. Rolling away is not a solution to anything, because it does not solve anything. If every time you see warden entering sb you roll away, what kind of fight is that? The problem with the sb is, as said before, that if you play something slower, you cant counter it, because if you dodge it, he gets a free gb, and if dont, you cannot attack fast enough to interrupt him and then its just matter of if he runs out of stamina before you run out of hitpoints.

Charmzzz
11-13-2017, 12:51 PM
Holy, so much false info and bad players intentions. Sorry guys...

Attacks:
Zone: 500ms - 20 Damage - if blocked -> free GB on Warden
Top Light: 500ms - 15 Damage
Side Light: 600 ms - 15 Damage + 9 Damage if double tapped on hit

SB:
1. You can counter the SB with any 500ms Light Attack (alot of Characters have one) if you are close enough.
2. You can "counter" the SB with any Side-Dodge Attack (alot of Characters have one), but this is risky as the Warden can feint his SB to parry your Dodge-Attack.
3. The time-window for the Warden to cancel the Bash into a GB is very small, so if 1. is not working because you are too far away -> the Warden wont be in range to GB you anyway -> wait for the Bash to come out and Dodge it for a free GB.

I have a Rep 40 PK, Rep 13 Warden and Rep 8 Gladiator, currently Platinum 5 in Ranked Duel, and I play in a very high MMR in Dominion (70%+ Winrate), so please listen to me: it is clearly a L2P issue on your side. Warden is, by far, not a problem anymore since he was nerfed.

BarbeQMichael
11-13-2017, 12:57 PM
Which is exactly I said slower characters, who do not have access to fast attacks and have slow recoveries, are practically on warden's mercy. Of course it is not a problem if you play with something faster, but I never claimed it to be

Armosias
11-13-2017, 01:08 PM
As a LB main I'm pretty sure the top light is 500ms, and seriously dodge the conq's shield bash. Side dodge works 100% with the right timing which is not hard to master. Even with LB and conq.

Kaijudub
11-13-2017, 01:15 PM
Which is exactly I said slower characters, who do not have access to fast attacks and have slow recoveries, are practically on warden's mercy. Of course it is not a problem if you play with something faster, but I never claimed it to be

Heavy characters have slow recoveries, it's part of their nature. But saying that the warden too has had his recoveries slowed in his nerfs so this really is a l2p problem on your side.

ChrisTaben2017
11-13-2017, 01:32 PM
Threads like this always make me laugh, Conq is by far the worst character in this game and I don't even play as him once you figure him out the only time you'll lose is if you haven't slept in three weeks or are drunk.
Warden is also one of the worst characters in the game, his shoulder bash is the worst attack in the game getting me killed nearly every time by people dodging it and using a heavy or in case of every other over powered character throwing me off a ledge.
With the amount of bull characters in this game with the likes of centurion and shinobi having a toolkit bigger than my dads shed and you casuals are still trying to remove the CONQ and WARDENS literal only attack!
How bad are some of you at this game LMAO

Kaijudub
11-13-2017, 01:42 PM
Threads like this always make me laugh, Conq is by far the worst character in this game and I don't even play as him once you figure him out the only time you'll lose is if you haven't slept in three weeks or are drunk.
Warden is also one of the worst characters in the game, his shoulder bash is the worst attack in the game getting me killed nearly every time by people dodging it and using a heavy or in case of every other over powered character throwing me off a ledge.
With the amount of bull characters in this game with the likes of centurion and shinobi having a toolkit bigger than my dads shed and you casuals are still trying to remove the CONQ and WARDENS literal only attack!
How bad are some of you at this game LMAO

Basically this. GG

Raydal86
11-13-2017, 02:32 PM
I'm a main conqueror and i never shield bash twice in a fight cause 90% of times the enemy dodge and punish.
Warden SB is way better but not OP, you can dodge it or counter gb. Plus after 2 SB a warden will be without stamina... A centurion or a shinobi can kick you for eons :/

Stahlrusse
11-13-2017, 02:44 PM
I'm a main conqueror and i never shield bash twice in a fight cause 90% of times the enemy dodge and punish.
Warden SB is way better but not OP, you can dodge it or counter gb. Plus after 2 SB a warden will be without stamina... A centurion or a shinobi can kick you for eons :/

A warden will be out of stamina after 4-5 shoulder bashes. Not after 2.
You cannot dodge an SB after light. I saw people try, they failed.

That's for the "you can dodge it"- people.

Charmzzz
11-13-2017, 02:52 PM
Have a look here for all attack timings and damage values: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970

I make it short: the only Characters that DO NOT have access to a 500ms attack are: Raider, Shugoki and Highlander. Now let's have a closer look at those 3 who should have "hard" times against Warden:

Raider: Can Dodge every SB attempt because his special is that he can CGB even when GBed while dodging. This makes Raider probably the best Warden counter, even without a fast attack.

Shugoki: Has Hyperarmor. Let Warden SB you and trade a heavy for it? Win. Block Top (Wardens only 500ms attack that leads into SB) and Warden has to Dodge - SB, while you have Hyperarmor for the big trade.

Highlander: This is really tough I have to admit. The thing I can imagine is that Highlander could startup his heavy when Warden goes for the SB attempt on Dodge, Highlander gets Hyperarmor and trades like the Shugoki then.

So, out of all Characters, there is only ONE that literally has "harder" times. Every other Character can just Light / GB (GB is 400ms on every Character) or Dodge. It is, really, a L2P issue.

Charmzzz
11-13-2017, 02:55 PM
A warden will be out of stamina after 4-5 shoulder bashes. Not after 2.
You cannot dodge an SB after light. I saw people try, they failed.

That's for the "you can dodge it"- people.

Wrong timing then. I dodged alot of SB's after Light. My timing is off sometimes, sure, but it is 100% doable. Or just throw a 500ms attack at the Warden -> this ALWAYS works if you are close enough. If you are not close enough you should dodge the SB pretty easily on reaction.

Charmzzz
11-13-2017, 03:56 PM
You can 100% dodge the SB after light. Unless you play 1v2 or 1vX and get hit by an attack while the warden charges his SB. then u can 100% not dodge it.
Why are so many people throwing out so many wrong facts??
stop this madness.


btw. Charmzzz respect for still trying to teach this weirdo community.

Thx. I just cannot stand all these false informations that people use as "facts" for their argumenation. My only "complain" about the game is the removal of timesnap and some comboes that are too strong (Sickle Rain, Impale Wall Splat, Stampede Wall Splat, Demon Embrace after Wall Splat combined with Hyperarmor, Centurion Cut-Scene still - one mistake eats half your HP). Everything else is, almost completely, a L2P issue on the players side. Sure, there are stronger and weaker moves, favorable und unfavorable matchups and such, but that's true for every fcking PVP game I have played in my life (and I am 35...).

bmason1000
11-13-2017, 04:36 PM
Have a look here for all attack timings and damage values: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970

I make it short: the only Characters that DO NOT have access to a 500ms attack are: Raider, Shugoki and Highlander. Now let's have a closer look at those 3 who should have "hard" times against Warden:

Raider: Can Dodge every SB attempt because his special is that he can CGB even when GBed while dodging. This makes Raider probably the best Warden counter, even without a fast attack.

Shugoki: Has Hyperarmor. Let Warden SB you and trade a heavy for it? Win. Block Top (Wardens only 500ms attack that leads into SB) and Warden has to Dodge - SB, while you have Hyperarmor for the big trade.

Highlander: This is really tough I have to admit. The thing I can imagine is that Highlander could startup his heavy when Warden goes for the SB attempt on Dodge, Highlander gets Hyperarmor and trades like the Shugoki then.

So, out of all Characters, there is only ONE that literally has "harder" times. Every other Character can just Light / GB (GB is 400ms on every Character) or Dodge. It is, really, a L2P issue.Just gonna post this a second time, make sure it's realllly visible. If this thread hits another page, i suggest copy and pasting again.

Netcode_err_404
11-13-2017, 05:10 PM
Thx. I just cannot stand all these false informations that people use as "facts" for their argumenation. My only "complain" about the game is the removal of timesnap and some comboes that are too strong (Sickle Rain, Impale Wall Splat, Stampede Wall Splat, Demon Embrace after Wall Splat combined with Hyperarmor, Centurion Cut-Scene still - one mistake eats half your HP). Everything else is, almost completely, a L2P issue on the players side. Sure, there are stronger and weaker moves, favorable und unfavorable matchups and such, but that's true for every fcking PVP game I have played in my life (and I am 35...).

Can you pls make a video where in a non pre programed game you consistently dodge SB after a light with HL and shugoki ? Ty.


You know, maining a pk probably teached you to ignore the real issues others classes have.

Armosias
11-13-2017, 05:18 PM
I must say this topic is interesting somehow, since this SB ******** is the only thing bothering me in wardens, I'll probably handle them better now...

Nokhchalla
11-13-2017, 05:31 PM
They really don't. Warden has already been nerfed to mid / low tier in high level play. Fight any level 3 bot as a warden and it will show you how easy it is to react too.

Or apply this nerf, take away litterally the only decent tool in his kit bag and no body will play him.

By definition the SB isn't a 50/50 as you can roll out of it. You'll also find if you do roll from the sb, your roll ends perfectly in time from the sb to then gb the warden.

Learn the game, stop spouting mis information.

The only decent tool in his kit? Are you fcking kidding me? The SB is 50/50, dont forget how when you roll out of it you'll get a GB in most cases, and not to mention rolling out doesnt work when stunned. Just yesterday I saw a cancer f@ggot SB a Lawbringer 3 times! without him being able to move out of it in revenge mode! And no he wasn't a "noob" if that's what you think, before he could recover he got hit again and again by this SB BS.

I'm not spouting misinformation, perhaps you should open your eyes and admit there is a problem here.

SlickCriminal27
11-13-2017, 05:38 PM
Holy, so much false info and bad players intentions. Sorry guys...

Attacks:
Zone: 500ms - 20 Damage - if blocked -> free GB on Warden
Top Light: 500ms - 15 Damage
Side Light: 600 ms - 15 Damage + 9 Damage if double tapped on hit

SB:
1. You can counter the SB with any 500ms Light Attack (alot of Characters have one) if you are close enough.
2. You can "counter" the SB with any Side-Dodge Attack (alot of Characters have one), but this is risky as the Warden can feint his SB to parry your Dodge-Attack.
3. The time-window for the Warden to cancel the Bash into a GB is very small, so if 1. is not working because you are too far away -> the Warden wont be in range to GB you anyway -> wait for the Bash to come out and Dodge it for a free GB.

I have a Rep 40 PK, Rep 13 Warden and Rep 8 Gladiator, currently Platinum 5 in Ranked Duel, and I play in a very high MMR in Dominion (70%+ Winrate), so please listen to me: it is clearly a L2P issue on your side. Warden is, by far, not a problem anymore since he was nerfed.

Oh ffs spare me of your crap!

It's easy to play as a fast trashy PK and dodge and move out of the way and have a tracking of 5000 meters, we are talking about slower characters here. Perhaps when you have played with some of them you'll realize, and may come back here and talk. But for now we dont want no shltty input from shltty assassins. Get out!

Armosias
11-13-2017, 06:58 PM
Oh ffs spare me of your crap!

It's easy to play as a fast trashy PK and dodge and move out of the way and have a tracking of 5000 meters, we are talking about slower characters here. Perhaps when you have played with some of them you'll realize, and may come back here and talk. But for now we dont want no shltty input from shltty assassins. Get out!

Let me quote the answer you need:


Have a look here for all attack timings and damage values: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=1037667970

I make it short: the only Characters that DO NOT have access to a 500ms attack are: Raider, Shugoki and Highlander. Now let's have a closer look at those 3 who should have "hard" times against Warden:

Raider: Can Dodge every SB attempt because his special is that he can CGB even when GBed while dodging. This makes Raider probably the best Warden counter, even without a fast attack.

Shugoki: Has Hyperarmor. Let Warden SB you and trade a heavy for it? Win. Block Top (Wardens only 500ms attack that leads into SB) and Warden has to Dodge - SB, while you have Hyperarmor for the big trade.

Highlander: This is really tough I have to admit. The thing I can imagine is that Highlander could startup his heavy when Warden goes for the SB attempt on Dodge, Highlander gets Hyperarmor and trades like the Shugoki then.

So, out of all Characters, there is only ONE that literally has "harder" times. Every other Character can just Light / GB (GB is 400ms on every Character) or Dodge. It is, really, a L2P issue.

Now you can test by yourself on the battlefield. Or you can carry on crying in this topic, forgetting every single answer bringing proofs.

Armosias
11-13-2017, 07:22 PM
Not nice things were formerly written in this space - UbiInsulin

I'll take that as a proof of weakness, thanks!

SlickCriminal27
11-13-2017, 07:27 PM
I'll take that as a proof of weakness, thanks!

I just looked you up on FHT, you have 0.87 K/D, that is truly a sign of weakness HAHAHA

https://media.giphy.com/media/I4Jmrcjnr8Zfq/giphy-downsized-large.gif

Netcode_err_404
11-13-2017, 07:37 PM
Let me quote the answer you need:



Now you can test by yourself on the battlefield. Or you can carry on crying in this topic, forgetting every single answer bringing proofs.


1) Every idiot will gb the shugoki before engaging him, probably even you.

2)HL HA does not protect him from bashes. Also, even if it would, you would need a god like timing, not to mention you are slower, do less dmg, and have less health.

Stahlrusse
11-13-2017, 08:17 PM
I have to say I don't have SB-problems against Warden with my Berserker because the Zerk has dodge attacks which are immune to Wardens SB-GB combo.

And I have to say that I can easily pull off 3-4 50/50 SB-GB Combos after another with my warden against most players.

I am not saying it is impossible to beat it. I am just saying that most people ****ing can't, especially Non-assassins.

Devils-_-legacy
11-13-2017, 08:20 PM
I just looked you up on FHT, you have 0.87 K/D, that is truly a sign of weakness HAHAHA

https://media.giphy.com/media/I4Jmrcjnr8Zfq/giphy-downsized-large.gif

Lol I do love fh tracker

Armosias
11-14-2017, 12:25 AM
Please care less about my K/D/A, it's not like you knew me nor the way I play. Oh and yeah I'm still waiting for some accurate answers. But I guess you'll keep on trying to get me mad.


1) Every idiot will gb the shugoki before engaging him, probably even you.

2)HL HA does not protect him from bashes. Also, even if it would, you would need a god like timing, not to mention you are slower, do less dmg, and have less health.

At least there le something interesting.. In your own usual poisonous style.

Porch-Skunk
11-14-2017, 01:58 AM
Isn't a patch coming out that makes rolls GB-able now?

bmason1000
11-14-2017, 01:59 AM
Have you tried unlocking and walking away? Not a joke. When you see him go for SB, unlock, and casually walk backwards. Seriously. Go try it.

bmason1000
11-14-2017, 02:00 AM
Isn't a patch coming out that makes rolls GB-able now?Negative, they retracted that statement. You'll no longer be able to block attacks during a roll but still immune to GB.

UbiInsulin
11-14-2017, 02:07 AM
Hi all! Firstly, thanks for the feedback on these two moves.

However passionate your feelings on this issue are, please do not resort to personal insults or inflammatory language when discussing balance in a video game. I'd prefer to keep this thread open.

MafiaRider
11-14-2017, 06:24 AM
Have you tried unlocking and walking away? Not a joke. When you see him go for SB, unlock, and casually walk backwards. Seriously. Go try it.

I suggest you read the earlier posts

MafiaRider
11-14-2017, 06:29 AM
Please care less about my K/D/A, it's not like you knew me nor the way I play. Oh and yeah I'm still waiting for some accurate answers. But I guess you'll keep on trying to get me mad.



At least there le something interesting.. In your own usual poisonous style.

Lol what? What he is saying is true.

Charmzzz
11-14-2017, 09:38 AM
Even IF Shugoki and Highlander have harder times against Warden, that is 2 heroes out of the whole Roster. Wow, that MUST be an OP move then if 2 out of 16 Characters don't have a perfect counter for it!

Yes, Highlander is pretty weak right now. But do not try to tell me that Shugoki is bad. He isn't. Just like Nobushi, where 90% of the community said "UP! BUFF NAO!", and then Alernakin showed them what Nobu can do. Shugoki is almost the same. In Duels he is, by a good amount, the best turtle in the game. Get one GB near a wall for a guaranteed Demon Embrace that deals a shtton of Damage and heals you. GG. Oh wait, I forgot the Dominion potential of the Shugo! 60 Damage charged Heavy in a super-wide arc anyone? Regular Hyperarmor for ledging anyone? Demon Embrace where you are stunned in the whole animation and everybody can hit you anyone?

So, concerning Warden, yes, those 2 Characters may have problems. ALL others though, have something in their kit to counter the SB. And to those guy complaining that I play PK and have "easy times" dodging -> I do NOT dodge the SB in most cases. Because that is risky, going for a 500ms Attack or GB is much better in almost every case. Only when the Warden is too far away -> then I dodge. But that is manageable for every other Character, too. You did not read my posts at all I guess. Every Character in the game has access to a 500ms Attack which is THE DIRECT COUNTER to a Warden's Light into SB except the 3 Characters I have mentioned (where Raider has an even better direct counter).

BTW maybe I main PK, but I have a Rep 13 Warden and I can tell you that my SB gets countered pretty often in the skill bracket that I am playing in.

ChrisTaben2017
11-14-2017, 11:59 AM
As a rep 30 warden who has played the game as a warden for literally 10 days of my life I can tell you he's out of enough usable stamina after 2 and if you get stuck in it after 2 you have been playing as op chars and have 0 skill

Netcode_err_404
11-14-2017, 05:29 PM
Even IF Shugoki and Highlander have harder times against Warden, that is 2 heroes out of the whole Roster. Wow, that MUST be an OP move then if 2 out of 16 Characters don't have a perfect counter for it!

Yes, Highlander is pretty weak right now. But do not try to tell me that Shugoki is bad. He isn't. Just like Nobushi, where 90% of the community said "UP! BUFF NAO!", and then Alernakin showed them what Nobu can do. Shugoki is almost the same. In Duels he is, by a good amount, the best turtle in the game. Get one GB near a wall for a guaranteed Demon Embrace that deals a shtton of Damage and heals you. GG. Oh wait, I forgot the Dominion potential of the Shugo! 60 Damage charged Heavy in a super-wide arc anyone? Regular Hyperarmor for ledging anyone? Demon Embrace where you are stunned in the whole animation and everybody can hit you anyone?

So, concerning Warden, yes, those 2 Characters may have problems. ALL others though, have something in their kit to counter the SB. And to those guy complaining that I play PK and have "easy times" dodging -> I do NOT dodge the SB in most cases. Because that is risky, going for a 500ms Attack or GB is much better in almost every case. Only when the Warden is too far away -> then I dodge. But that is manageable for every other Character, too. You did not read my posts at all I guess. Every Character in the game has access to a 500ms Attack which is THE DIRECT COUNTER to a Warden's Light into SB except the 3 Characters I have mentioned (where Raider has an even better direct counter).

BTW maybe I main PK, but I have a Rep 13 Warden and I can tell you that my SB gets countered pretty often in the skill bracket that I am playing in.



In your mind, shugo is fine because he can turtle up ad infinitum and abusing hyper armor ? Interesting game design.

Mighty_Mackerel
11-14-2017, 06:11 PM
I used to be where a lot of these players were once upon a time, thinking that the Warden's shoulder bash is OP, and I thought that even being a Warden main myself... However, after digging deeper on the matter and especially just simply playing the game more and more, I have to disagree. The SB has been nerfed twice now, and everyone I have gone up against and currently go up against has been able to counter it every time. So much in fact that I hardly use it anymore.

As for the Conq, the poor guy has been nerfed so damn much that if you are still having enough trouble dealing with him to demand yet another nerf... then you simply just need to practice fighting him a LITTLE BIT more, lol.

kbvlcvfkhgc
11-14-2017, 06:31 PM
Warden shoulder bash?

you meant the dodge it and get guard-broke or don't doge it and get spammed into oblivion, that one? oh yea that Sh!t needs nerfing big time

Netcode_err_404
11-14-2017, 08:19 PM
I used to be where a lot of these players were once upon a time, thinking that the Warden's shoulder bash is OP, and I thought that even being a Warden main myself... However, after digging deeper on the matter and especially just simply playing the game more and more, I have to disagree. The SB has been nerfed twice now, and everyone I have gone up against and currently go up against has been able to counter it every time. So much in fact that I hardly use it anymore.

As for the Conq, the poor guy has been nerfed so damn much that if you are still having enough trouble dealing with him to demand yet another nerf... then you simply just need to practice fighting him a LITTLE BIT more, lol.

I am one of them that think SB was OP when it was possible to cancel mid animation.

Now is just one of the many cheesey moves that requires 0 skill, but still can grant some huge damage.

All by pressing 2 buttons.

ArchDukeInstinct
11-15-2017, 04:55 AM
In your mind, shugo is fine because he can turtle up ad infinitum and abusing hyper armor ? Interesting game design.

1-2 weeks ago you were livid about conqueror being OP due to your assertion that he can turtle up "ad infinitum". Now you're admitting the same thing (even using the same exact words) about shugoki yet he's UP? LOL


2)Conqueror can turtle up ad infinitum against pretty much all classes except warden. Its less effective against pk's and assassins except gladiator, because none of the vanilla assassins needs to use heavies, because lights are better and faster.

Netcode_err_404
11-15-2017, 05:11 AM
1-2 weeks ago you were livid about conqueror being OP due to your assertion that he can turtle up "ad infinitum". Now you're admitting the same thing (even using the same exact words) about shugoki yet he's UP? LOL

Except you cannot open the defence of a conq, but you can remove the armor of the shugoki with a simple GB.


Without that said armor he takes 25% more dmg, also, fun fact, you an GB during his heavies on reaction.


Now tell me Einstein, how are we supposed to open up a conqueror if he only shield bash and block all ? Conssdering against him you cannot do heavies ? Tell me, im genuinely curios

ArchDukeInstinct
11-15-2017, 06:07 AM
Except you cannot open the defence of a conq, but you can remove the armor of the shugoki with a simple GB.


Without that said armor he takes 25% more dmg, also, fun fact, you an GB during his heavies on reaction.


Now tell me Einstein, how are we supposed to open up a conqueror if he only shield bash and block all ? Conssdering against him you cannot do heavies ? Tell me, im genuinely curios

You feign heavy into light in another direction, you feign heavy into light in the same direction after conditioning him, you feign heavy into zone attack, you force him to use his superior block on dodge to catch all these lights, that's when you feign heavy into a guard break to catch those. If all he does is dash into shield bash you anticipate it (he has to dash to initiate it, so you know it's coming) and do a side light attack, catching the shield bash midway and dealing damage. Also full block stance into shield bash and heavy into shield bash are reliably dodged and guard broken.

And of course the easiest way to make the duel a massive uphill battle for conqueror, you turtle up yourself and laugh as he has to hope his 600ms light won't be parried and be constantly out of stamina from full block feigning and having to wait 5 seconds for his stamina to even begin to regenerate.

Alright so there's a multitude of tips in beating a bottom tier class, now you can finally stop embarrassing yourself in that 1 out of 100 duel matches that you were lucky enough to actually have to face a conqueror.

Charmzzz
11-15-2017, 09:18 AM
DukeInstinct: I think we should stop arguing with Lord-Micidial / EasyAntiCheat... He is always right, his arguments are superior, his view on the game is the one and only. Don't you see it? I am tired of trying...

That guy has problems with classes in the game that are easily countered by just learning 1-2 counters for them. There are faaar worse opponents to face than Warden or Conqueror, for example his own main - the lawbringer. But that one is almost never mentioned in his rants, still LB has the highest damaging running attack which comes out @300ms (fastest move in the game...), not to mention the insanely safe turtle - shove on block. But on the topic of the running attack his reply was only "block your left side". When I say "block your right side" concerning PK Zone (which is @400ms) - then this is not a valid argument for him.

Warden SB is a noob-basher, but it is counterable if you know how. Fact. L2P issue.

Kaijudub
11-15-2017, 12:25 PM
The only decent tool in his kit? Are you fcking kidding me? The SB is 50/50, dont forget how when you roll out of it you'll get a GB in most cases, and not to mention rolling out doesnt work when stunned. Just yesterday I saw a cancer f@ggot SB a Lawbringer 3 times! without him being able to move out of it in revenge mode! And no he wasn't a "noob" if that's what you think, before he could recover he got hit again and again by this SB BS.

I'm not spouting misinformation, perhaps you should open your eyes and admit there is a problem here.

I'm not kidding you. I mean I actually a rep40 Warden main, so know quite a fair bit about him. I've actually come back to the game after a few months off and have started playing with one of my friends girlfriends. Funnily enough she has a rep3 LB and has no problem with my shoulder bash, so it's most certainly a l2p issue on your part.

By nature anything you can ROLL out of is not a 50/50. So you are in fact spouting misinformation. I mean it's cool, we can agree to disagree but i'm not the one crying because i can't evade a readable move here.

ArchDukeInstinct
11-16-2017, 04:07 AM
DukeInstinct: I think we should stop arguing with Lord-Micidial / EasyAntiCheat... He is always right, his arguments are superior, his view on the game is the one and only. Don't you see it? I am tired of trying...

That guy has problems with classes in the game that are easily countered by just learning 1-2 counters for them. There are faaar worse opponents to face than Warden or Conqueror, for example his own main - the lawbringer. But that one is almost never mentioned in his rants, still LB has the highest damaging running attack which comes out @300ms (fastest move in the game...), not to mention the insanely safe turtle - shove on block. But on the topic of the running attack his reply was only "block your left side". When I say "block your right side" concerning PK Zone (which is @400ms) - then this is not a valid argument for him.

Warden SB is a noob-basher, but it is counterable if you know how. Fact. L2P issue.

Yeah he tends to just shamelessly dump double standards on me as well, and I'm sure many others on these forums. From his posts, I've come to the conclusion that he is a very low end player with an equally dismal ability at putting forth coherent arguments.

Netcode_err_404
11-16-2017, 05:33 AM
DukeInstinct: I think we should stop arguing with Lord-Micidial / EasyAntiCheat... He is always right, his arguments are superior, his view on the game is the one and only. Don't you see it? I am tired of trying...

That guy has problems with classes in the game that are easily countered by just learning 1-2 counters for them. There are faaar worse opponents to face than Warden or Conqueror, for example his own main - the lawbringer. But that one is almost never mentioned in his rants, still LB has the highest damaging running attack which comes out @300ms (fastest move in the game...), not to mention the insanely safe turtle - shove on block. But on the topic of the running attack his reply was only "block your left side". When I say "block your right side" concerning PK Zone (which is @400ms) - then this is not a valid argument for him.

Warden SB is a noob-basher, but it is counterable if you know how. Fact. L2P issue.

says the trash pk main.

Hey bud, have you learned to play the game recently ? Or still try hard with pk light zone spam ?

Oh right, you told me, that you use wardens when you want to try hard, because SB open up ppl and you could spam it to force a reaction.


But now, for some reasons, all is fine, reactabnle and l2p issue.


Congratz lol

Netcode_err_404
11-16-2017, 05:34 AM
Yeah he tends to just shamelessly dump double standards on me as well, and I'm sure many others on these forums. From his posts, I've come to the conclusion that he is a very low end player with an equally dismal ability at putting forth coherent arguments.

Are you able to make conclusions ?

Thats more than charmzz can do :)

Netcode_err_404
11-16-2017, 05:43 AM
You feign heavy into light in another direction, you feign heavy into light in the same direction after conditioning him, you feign heavy into zone attack, you force him to use his superior block on dodge to catch all these lights, that's when you feign heavy into a guard break to catch those. If all he does is dash into shield bash you anticipate it (he has to dash to initiate it, so you know it's coming) and do a side light attack, catching the shield bash midway and dealing damage. Also full block stance into shield bash and heavy into shield bash are reliably dodged and guard broken.

And of course the easiest way to make the duel a massive uphill battle for conqueror, you turtle up yourself and laugh as he has to hope his 600ms light won't be parried and be constantly out of stamina from full block feigning and having to wait 5 seconds for his stamina to even begin to regenerate.

Alright so there's a multitude of tips in beating a bottom tier class, now you can finally stop embarrassing yourself in that 1 out of 100 duel matches that you were lucky enough to actually have to face a conqueror.

You clearly have no idea how to play conq.

Turtling against a coqueror, lol, do you even play this game bud ?


Feinting a heavy ? LOL

Feinting a heavy into a light ? ahahahahah


kappa

ArchDukeInstinct
11-16-2017, 08:20 AM
You clearly have no idea how to play conq.

Turtling against a coqueror, lol, do you even play this game bud ?


Feinting a heavy ? LOL

Feinting a heavy into a light ? ahahahahah


kappa

Wow color me surprised. In a completely unexpected turn of events, Micidal did what he does with every response he can't argue against, due to his immense lack of game knowledge and skill, and just dismissed everything out of hand and inserted a few flaccid ad hominems to cover his tracks.

First of all, Micidial or whatever your name is, you can't even dodge a shield bash. Secondly... wait actually that's all we need to know because everyone else who actively plays this game grew out of that newbie problem 3 ****ing seasons ago.

ArchDukeInstinct
11-16-2017, 08:33 AM
says the trash pk main.

Hey bud, have you learned to play the game recently ? Or still try hard with pk light zone spam ?

Oh right, you told me, that you use wardens when you want to try hard, because SB open up ppl and you could spam it to force a reaction.


But now, for some reasons, all is fine, reactabnle and l2p issue.


Congratz lol

Assuming for a moment that Micidial's recollection of what was said is accurate, doesn't "force a reaction" already implicitly mean it's reactable? So where's the contradiction that Micidial implies is there? Looks like the only consistent thing about Micidial is that he's a free win both on the forums and in-game.

CoyoteXStarrk
11-16-2017, 09:15 AM
Warden Shoulder bash? Yes.


Conq shield bash? No.


Conqueror shield bash is SO easy to get out of already

PDXGorechild
11-16-2017, 09:25 AM
Shoulder bash = free spin chop for me.

SoulEavens
11-16-2017, 11:54 AM
I am almost Sure this Thread is just made from a Troll who baits for Flame.
Conq Shieldbash can be easily dodge Attack from any Character that has a Dodge Attack. Thats about half the friggin cast. The only Time Shieldbash Spam can get really nasty is if an opponent goes Wallspalt, or is with his back up against a Corner.

Even the slower Characters can dodge it with ease. Heck even if the SB hits you it is only a gruanteed Light, the heavy can be Parried unless you go Wallsplat.

And Turtling can be done by any Character, and there are quite a few Heroes who get a better Punish of a Parry than the Conqueror.
Charmazz actually already explained everything about Warden in great Detail, read it folks because it is the Truth.

Seriously, Conq and Warden SB are givving you Troubles? What do you do if you meet a Cent or a Gladiator? Run home crying?

Dude_of_Valor
11-16-2017, 12:05 PM
The biggest problem with Warden and Conqueror is that they have a limited move set and so do rely on their bash to get damage in.

That said the Warden has to SB straight into a GB or it is just a SB. Gone are the days were you can delay it for eternity and then GB.

Overall Warden is probably about right. Yes he is strong but very much beatable.

As for conqueror they are okay (unless in highly skilled hands).

This is coming from someone who plays on console. Maybe it is different on a PC.