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View Full Version : Simple turtle meta fix.



FinnOfTheHorde
11-11-2017, 10:16 AM
Just add 1 or 2 unblockable moves for OG characters and we are okay.

Knight_Raime
11-11-2017, 12:03 PM
I mean...no not really.
Unblockables are one way. But do you understand why?
it's because unblockables force a reaction.
There are other ways to do this.

I personally suggested awhile ago that every hero should get these 3 things:
1) light into heavy combo
2) soft feint into zone attack
3) soft feint into guard break

Light into heavy accomplishes some damage and a bait. You can either let the heavy fly for more damage or cancel it.
The person can attempt to parry to which you'd cancel and parry the attempted parry. But a person could just sit there and block.

So we move on to the second part. Soft feint into zone. Ideally the attack you'd be soft feinting from would be quick. Like a light. This accomplishes forcing the person to read. If you attack from one angle but the zone comes from a different angle you have to decide/react quick enough to respond to either. But again someone with quick enough reflexes could counter this. But the important thing here is that it still forces the person to make a read instead of just seeing something a mile away. So we're getting even better here.

The last one soft feinting into GB. 2 heros can currently do this. PK and centurion. In this instance you're forced to decide to either block or parry or CGB. Again forcing the person to make a proper read but also adding in a new button to worry about. Now if a hero has all 3 of these things ON TOP OF what makes their kit unique it's forcing your opponent to really learn to read. Not only that but it's also forcing them to learn how their specific hero matches up with another.

Anyway. The whole problem with the defensive meta is 2 fold. First part being the fact that the game heavily rewards a player who sits and waits. The second being that it's relatively easy to see every attack coming in. There for the defensive meta changes (and new hero additions) have been aimed at reducing the reward of playing super passively and also forcing reactions so the person can't just sit around and kill you slowly.

The amount of unblockables the dlc heros have gotten does help them crack turtles to an extent. But it's also what is in their kits that helps. Centurion has a some what varried timing on his heavy that has the ability to go unblockable or be soft canceled into a GB. Whilst also possessing a kick and punch that have to be dodged. Shinobi has speed and recovery time along side consistent albeit low damage with the guaranteed double lights. He has a decent amount of things in his kit that loops onto itself.
Gladiator has immense pressure with unblockables that harass but guarantee no damage save zone. And the ability to cancel basically everything to fake you out. At the cost of pretty low damage and basically no combo potential. Some of the heros possess some of what I mentioned about all heros should have is my point.

Once the defensive patches are all out they will release the reworked OG heros with most definitely updates to some of the dlc heros. If the dlc heros have shown us anything it's the devs are finally understanding what kind of heros the game needs. Hopefully they can and have applied what they learned with the dlc guys to the OG guys and earlier dlc guys.

ChampionRuby50g
11-11-2017, 12:56 PM
Knight, I like your ideas. The one problem I have though is with your second option, soft feint into Zone.

This sounds awfully a lot like Flicker. I'll use the Orochi for example. I would be fighting them, then a red icon would appear on my left and Orochi would start to move in that direction then all of a sudden burst into a zone from the other direction and it would connect. I don't want a return of Zone flickers, and if it does get to the stage where soft feint into Zone becomes a thing it's going to favour heros with a faster Zone to the point where it's abused. Warden, PK and Orochi to name a few.

Someone with quick reflexes would be able to counter, but realistically the majority wouldn't be able to, and fall for the light to the opposite side everytime. There would be ways to balance this, such as increase the time it takes to start up Zone giving players more time to counter, but as a whole I don't think soft feinting zones is the way to go about fixing the meta.

Knight_Raime
11-11-2017, 09:03 PM
Knight, I like your ideas. The one problem I have though is with your second option, soft feint into Zone.

This sounds awfully a lot like Flicker. I'll use the Orochi for example. I would be fighting them, then a red icon would appear on my left and Orochi would start to move in that direction then all of a sudden burst into a zone from the other direction and it would connect. I don't want a return of Zone flickers, and if it does get to the stage where soft feint into Zone becomes a thing it's going to favour heros with a faster Zone to the point where it's abused. Warden, PK and Orochi to name a few.

Someone with quick reflexes would be able to counter, but realistically the majority wouldn't be able to, and fall for the light to the opposite side everytime. There would be ways to balance this, such as increase the time it takes to start up Zone giving players more time to counter, but as a whole I don't think soft feinting zones is the way to go about fixing the meta.

Yeah when I proposed these ideas waaaay back that one was an issue for people. I think all zones that are not considered good should get buffed in some way. But i'll admit part of the reason for the suggestion was to address flickering. Because at least back then flicker didn't seem like it could be fixed. I'd be totally fine with not adding this particular idea in. So long as the other 2 are deff added in and bad zones get buffed.