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Raiden48
12-20-2003, 03:41 PM
Am i really the only one to notice that the P47 in 1.21 has:
1.Weaker MGs compared to Rc1 and compared to recent P40 and P51
2. Rolls worse then previous
3. Has bad elevator control, no fluid controls but shocky movements resulting in stalls
Would like to hear your comments on this,

Thanks

Raiden48
12-20-2003, 03:41 PM
Am i really the only one to notice that the P47 in 1.21 has:
1.Weaker MGs compared to Rc1 and compared to recent P40 and P51
2. Rolls worse then previous
3. Has bad elevator control, no fluid controls but shocky movements resulting in stalls
Would like to hear your comments on this,

Thanks

georgeo76
12-20-2003, 03:50 PM
Seems to me that the '47 has great elevator control, esp @ high speed. The Jug is kinda like the Pony, it doesn't come into it's own until it gets up high and flies fast

http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/images/eddie.gif
Merry Christmas!
Fiend's Wings (http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend)

Mackane_
12-20-2003, 04:47 PM
You can't really jerk the stick around in
a Thunderbolt or it'll do what you're
describing.
I like the new flight model...it kinda'
forces you not to "turnfight" and thus,
my speed stays very high.

http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/MACKANE.jpg

VW-IceFire
12-20-2003, 05:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1.Weaker MGs compared to Rc1 and compared to recent P40 and P51
2. Rolls worse then previous
3. Has bad elevator control, no fluid controls but shocky movements resulting in stalls
Would like to hear your comments on this,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1) Slightly more powerful than RC01 but not quite as powerful as 1.2 Beta. You may want to experiment with convergence settings because this is paramount - especially in the Jug. The placement of the P-51's and the P-40's guns mean that convergence means a little less than it does on the Jug. My recommended settings are 250 meters convergence. Many others are using settings in much closer (150 or 100 meters). So I don't agree with your statment on that point. The P-47's guns can totally rip aircraft apart if you get them right.

2) Roll is essentially improved except that its a little better modeled than before. If you take a 25% fuel Jug for a fly you'll see that it rolls and manuvers much faster and unlike most VVS and Luftwaffe fighters at 25% you have over an hour of flying time. The Jug, like the Pony, was a escort fighter at first and it has alot of fuel. That fuel weighs you down...

3) Don't pull back quickly on the stick. You have to be very gentle on the controls with the P-47 and it'll treat you very nicely. At high speeds and higher altitudes you can sometimes turn inside opponents who are not nearly as well matched at that altitude.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig.jpg

Hans_Svetty
12-20-2003, 06:55 PM
Nice post Ice.

Fennec_P
12-20-2003, 08:20 PM
The controls have gotten more jerky as a result of the control forces being lightened. Before, the controls would get very heavy at high speeds, and now they stay light all the time.

Platypus_1.JaVA
12-21-2003, 04:29 AM
There are two issues with the P-47. You got to hold it up to speed, in a fight and you really need to watch your convergence settings.

The speed thing is quite crucial. The Thunderbolt is very big in size and weight but, it has relatively small wing area. By comparing the modelkits on the shelf, next to me, the P-47 is about as long as the Il-2 but, alot 'fatter'. But, the wing area appears to be alot smaller. This means the P-47 needs to have much more speed in order to manouever. And because of the speed, it isn't capable of tight turns. The P-47 starts to 'fly' at approx 300 km/h. In a normal flight/fight situation, don't go below this speed.

Convergence settings are also important. Practice with Icons on to see how big the targets appear at the convergence settings. I use 150m. If you hit the target at that distance with the meight of all your 8X .50 guns, the result is devastating. Wing-snapping and hull-breaking. Even the 6X .50 from the P-51 is enough. It breaks FW-190's apart, let alone the BF-109.

Cajun76
12-21-2003, 04:31 AM
I noticed the tighter controls when I reinstalled the game the other day. I still use the modified stick input curves from the IL2 days. The profiles were still there, but were giving me the results I used to have when using the stock inputs. So I refreshed the values by clicking on them, and then applying. No more hypersensitivity. Here are the values for those who don't have them. Go to Hardware, Input. Top left you can change between the 3 axis.

Pitch: 0 5 10 17 25 33 43 54 71 100
Roll: 0 3 7 15 25 35 50 66 84 100
Yaw: 0 8 19 29 39 51 62 75 86 100

With my setup (the rocker for the rudder on my throttle *TM TopGun Afterburner*) I've had best results with rudder left at 100, all the way across. Give these a try if you haven't already, you may just like it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle


Meanwhile, in the 13th century:

BOOM! Yeah, Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my BOOMSTICK!! It's a 12 gauge, double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about $109.95. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop S-Mart. YOU GOT THAT!? Now I swear, the next one of you primates, E-ven TOUCHES me..... - Ash

VVS-Manuc
12-21-2003, 05:43 AM
Whiners !!!!!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Cajun76
12-21-2003, 06:15 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gifTroll! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle


Meanwhile, in the 13th century:

BOOM! Yeah, Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my BOOMSTICK!! It's a 12 gauge, double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about $109.95. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop S-Mart. YOU GOT THAT!? Now I swear, the next one of you primates, E-ven TOUCHES me..... - Ash

SkyChimp
12-21-2003, 06:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VVS-Manuc:
Whiners !!!!!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's clear is that the Manure would jump in http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Anyways, I think the P-47 handles fairly well. Not nearly as good at altitude as it did in 1.2b which is a dissappointment.

The roll rate on the P-47D-27 is really bad. Very much lower than it should be. Oleg knows that, but that is his sacred cow. He has a need to cripple this plane and this is the way he's decided to do it. Artificial and ahistorical. You'll need to learn to live with that.

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg

[This message was edited by SkyChimp on Sun December 21 2003 at 05:50 AM.]

Boandlgramer
12-21-2003, 07:10 AM
Problem to handle american planes ?
hit the link and your problem are gone.

http://images.google.de/images?q=tbn:dM1hGsmJDkoC:bigbelch.com/celebs/affleck.gif

fi-bluedragon
12-21-2003, 10:03 AM
Are you flying the D27, if so then it has a slower roll rate than the D10 and D22, try those instead. They are much better and the guns on all are great.

DONB3397
12-21-2003, 11:47 AM
Going back to the original post, the D27 in 1.21 does seem to feel different. Quick movements on the stick at low altitudes seem to 'twitch' the nose -- not a good thing when you're firing at a moving target. As several people have pointed out, this is a heavy a/c with a relatively small wing area. Small stabilizer movements shouldn't have that much effect. Solution: with this FM, take it easy on the stick, avoid flat deflection shots.

Also, roll rate is ponderous with this plane. Don't try any snap-roll-and-break maneuvers. On the other hand, with the right convergence, you can chew up a target faster with these old brownings than anything else going (IMO).

BTW, the flight models for the TBolt in Janes, CFS3, EAW and IL2 are all different. You just have to learn the model and adjust, I guess.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!

Wetwilly87
12-21-2003, 01:00 PM
The only thing that I dont like about the Jug is the D-27, those wing pilons make it look ugly when your not carrying anything. Why dont they make it like the mustang where unless you pick a secondary armenment there are no wing pilons.

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