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View Full Version : Flicker Fix and my Zone Struggle



Trenk2009
11-05-2017, 05:38 PM
Here is my suggestion:

Bring back the old buffer and simply make it so we can only use zones if we are in the adapted stance (just like with every other attacks in the game).
Lately Iíve found a new interest in playing 4v4 games modes, but Iím soooo frustrated by the amount of clutches I lost because I couldnít zone.

Please pass it to the devs.

CandleInTheDark
11-05-2017, 06:56 PM
Or, as I said in the thread you posted two days ago on the exact same thing, you could spend time practicing like everyone else that can do it every time or near enough. I very rarely miss it, because I bothered to practice, and it has been ten times better not having to deal with the flicker which people would find a way to work back in.

What you are suggesting also weakens zone for everyone but assassins given people can see what stance they are in whereas right now it can come at any time for those who have gotten their timing down.

Trenk2009
11-05-2017, 07:34 PM
Or, as I said in the thread you posted two days ago on the exact same thing, you could spend time practicing like everyone else that can do it every time or near enough. I very rarely miss it, because I bothered to practice, and it has been ten times better not having to deal with the flicker which people would find a way to work back in.

What you are suggesting also weakens zone for everyone but assassins given people can see what stance they are in whereas right now it can come at any time for those who have gotten their timing down.

Practice or not practice this is not something that can always be done consistently. I usually have no problem using my zone when I'm in 1V1 or when I just have to throw it out of nowhere, but as soon as I'm under little pressure such as 1V2 or 1V3 , or as soon as I initiate an input intensive combo where my zone attack is required, it simply become freaking inconsistent.

For christ sake this is a god damn input ! It shouldn't be something I need to focus to perform !

Also, not everyone has the time to play the game on a regular basis to learn the perfect timing okay. There are some weeks where I can't even play once before the freaking week-end !
So sorry if YOU can always get your zone out, we are not all the same.

Also, I don't see in what my suggestion weakens zones, but if you think so okay, then why not reducing the buffer only on chars where flicker was a problem ? Like reducing the buffer for Warden, PK, Orochi, Berserker and any other heroes that has fast zones.

Malyngo
11-05-2017, 07:56 PM
Are you playing with a gamepad?
I also have difficulties now, and I am playing with a gamepad. I think the problem basically is that the two "buttons" used for zone are RB and RT. And as the trigger isn't a button, but rather an axis, it requires a different timing than the button. What I have to do is press the trigger a tad earlier than the button.

What you can do to make it work is indeed practice. What I did is this: I hold my fingers in a certain way that my middle finger is a tad more flexed than the index finger, so when I move them in unison, my middle finger will hit the trigger a tad earlier than the index finger the button.

But I have to admit, I am still not down to 100% success with this. But it got a lot better.
Fix for this basically is when they give us better button mapping, that we map zone to something different than RT + RB.

CandleInTheDark
11-05-2017, 10:18 PM
Practice or not practice this is not something that can always be done consistently. I usually have no problem using my zone when I'm in 1V1 or when I just have to throw it out of nowhere, but as soon as I'm under little pressure such as 1V2 or 1V3 , or as soon as I initiate an input intensive combo where my zone attack is required, it simply become freaking inconsistent.

For christ sake this is a god damn input ! It shouldn't be something I need to focus to perform !

Also, not everyone has the time to play the game on a regular basis to learn the perfect timing okay. There are some weeks where I can't even play once before the freaking week-end !
So sorry if YOU can always get your zone out, we are not all the same.

Also, I don't see in what my suggestion weakens zones, but if you think so okay, then why not reducing the buffer only on chars where flicker was a problem ? Like reducing the buffer for Warden, PK, Orochi, Berserker and any other heroes that has fast zones.

I have trash fine motor dexterity, as Malyngo said, the trigger needs to be pressed more than the bumper, it took me half an hour in how to play beating up the level zero peacekeeper and I can do it nine times in ten against other players, so either you're not as good as you think you are or you've just not bothered.

ChampionRuby50g
11-05-2017, 11:39 PM
I have trash fine motor dexterity, as Malyngo said, the trigger needs to be pressed more than the bumper, it took me half an hour in how to play beating up the level zero peacekeeper and I can do it nine times in ten against other players, so either you're not as good as you think you are or you've just not bothered.

Half an hour is a long time to learn a mechanic if you can only play for an hour or two a day, keep in mind. A lot of people don't want to spend that long staring at a bot perfecting something that should be easy, when instead they could be having more fun playing the actual game.

Trenk2009
11-06-2017, 12:11 AM
Half an hour is a long time to learn a mechanic if you can only play for an hour or two a day, keep in mind. A lot of people don't want to spend that long staring at a bot perfecting something that should be easy, when instead they could be having more fun playing the actual game.

Thank you.

Also not to mention the fact that practising against a punchbag bot is nothing like being surrounded by 3 ennemies near a ledge...

UbiInsulin
11-06-2017, 12:22 AM
Half an hour is a long time to learn a mechanic if you can only play for an hour or two a day, keep in mind. A lot of people don't want to spend that long staring at a bot perfecting something that should be easy, when instead they could be having more fun playing the actual game.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. We actually have let the team know that some players are finding zones to be frustrating right now, although it seems like everyone's mileage may vary.

ChampionRuby50g
11-06-2017, 12:31 AM
Yeah, I see where you're coming from. We actually have let the team know that some players are finding zones to be frustrating right now, although it seems like everyone's mileage may vary.

Exactly, everyone plays different and reacts different, so finding a balanced area for Zone is no small task. Personally I can do Zone more often than not, but at times I don't it's frustrating.
The easiest way to me seems to be making Zone a one button thing, perhaps LB if you are locked onto someone, or people could change the button mapping around to get rid of quickchat there (Xbox) and place it somewhere else? Just some brain storming.

Like my mate in the army told me, some of the best shots in his class fell apart when the shots where coming back their way and couldn't hit a barn if they tried, Trenk2009. Practicing against a bot is never gonna be the same as pulling it off in game, is the point.

gj4063
11-06-2017, 12:32 AM
How many other console games do you have to practice timing of depressing two buttons at the same time???

Laughable.

Howard_T_J
11-06-2017, 01:00 AM
Yeah, I see where you're coming from. We actually have let the team know that some players are finding zones to be frustrating right now, although it seems like everyone's mileage may vary.

I've gotten better at it. But almost nothing is more controller throw eligible. Than doing a heavy attack instead of a zone at a crucial moment. I feel his pain. I've had lots and lots of practice. I'm getting far better at not messing up. But that uncalled for heavy attack is obnoxious.

CandleInTheDark
11-06-2017, 09:33 AM
Half an hour is a long time to learn a mechanic if you can only play for an hour or two a day, keep in mind. A lot of people don't want to spend that long staring at a bot perfecting something that should be easy, when instead they could be having more fun playing the actual game.

Not to be argumentative but it isn't like I am a streamer that plays 8 hours a day and can call that work (I wish >.>) one to two hours is about how long I spend a day which is seven to fourteen hours a week, in that context half an hour never seemed that long to me and I considered it worth it to get zone off right. I also practice the new characters that way, probably for about an hour, before using them and I can tell the people who don't when I meet them in duel or even dominion which is generally more forgiving. Why I am arguing this is I don't want to see flicker come back or more bugs introduced because they had to compensate for people not putting the effort in, I am sure closing the buffer isn't the only option they considered given they said their original planned fix did not work.

I would also be willing to bet that most of the people (not saying all, but a good deal) having the most problems fall into one of two categories, some of them, and I will be optimistic and say a smaller number, being those who abused flicker and got used to the laxer timing that way, the other set of people I would think allowed themselves to get used to that lax timing where they could press first one attack button then the other and figured it would not change. I got into the mindset a while ago that while it was easier to do it that way, maybe it might be wise to try to do it the way it was intended, both buttons at the same time, in case it is something that the devs fix up either because they feel it is too easy or in order to fix something else. I still get the occasional heavy instead of zone, I am not going to say I am perfect, as I said, trash fine motor dexterity, but I get by well enough.

As a compare and contrast, Nobushi's hidden stance was next to impossible to consistently pull off on the gamepad because the angle was too small, smaller than other all block stuff and on the pc it was a single button press same as the all block so it was fixed. Zone is the other end of the spectrum, it was a case that it was far too forgiving to begin with and people are not adjusting, so they tell ubisoft they want it back. The intentional way was always both buttons be pressed at the same time and that is not an uncommon thing in fighters (tekken) or games in other genres (monster hunter for example which has an identical two attack buttons then both together for a third system), the way it is now is the way it should have started and if it had, people would have adjusted by now, some just want the easy back.


Also not to mention the fact that practising against a punchbag bot is nothing like being surrounded by 3 ennemies near a ledge...

And yet I have used it in that situation from practising against said punchbag. Case in point in my last two games I went for it eighteen times and got it fourteen times, 77.78% success, most of them against other players, one in that situation you stated, so really I am not seeing the struggle people claim. If a possibility that I miss it roughly once in four or five is the price for no flicker and not adding in other bugs or weakening zone for people whose stance is always visible by giving the extra indication their stance is where zone comes from then I'll take it, but then like I said I have put the effort in to the point I can replicate it in game and will continue to, as far as I can go, get better and get that success rate up rather than ask Ubisoft to fix my problem for me. Practising is a better use of time than complaining (multiple times a week).

TGBent
11-06-2017, 07:58 PM
Just let us freely map buttons on gamepads and give us the ability to bind zone to a single button. I tried binding zone to Y and revenge to r3 via steam big picture. This felt much better (and btw, this would have also solved flicker from the start...)

Also, zone is not only weird because of the timing, but also because 90% of people I know have their index finger rest on the trigger und use it for both RT and RB. I barely know anyone who has index on RB and middle finger on RT.

CandleInTheDark
11-06-2017, 08:04 PM
Also, zone is not only weird because of the timing, but also because 90% of people I know have their index finger rest on the trigger und use it for both RT and RB. I barely know anyone who has index on RB and middle finger on RT.

Yeah it doesn't seem to naturally fall that way on xbox pads which as a former PS2 owner (I missed a whole gen) surprised me. I make myself hold it as I would have a PS2 pad with my middle finger, on my right hand at least, on trigger which likely helps some.

And yeah binding it to one button when they have full binding in the future would help, a matter of finding a button since when I had an elite pad my sticks went to feint and guardbreak but it gives options. I am not saying there should be no change at all, I just don't think relaxing the buffer works and it shouldn't be done just to make things easier whatever the cost.

CandleInTheDark
11-07-2017, 09:53 PM
Sorry for the double post, but I was messing around against the bot trying to figure a good way of explaining how I do zone and I came across a way that I have a very high percentage success with so I figured on sharing it and seeing if it helped people out.

Some setup stuff, this is assuming an Xbox type controller with triggers having to be pressed deeper than the top buttons (might work well on pads with more equal depress as well, don't know for sure, I don't have one but I don't see why not). The natural way of holding this is with your index finger on the trigger button. Now I used to have a PS2 as I mentioned above, the natural way of holding that pad is with the index finger on the top shoulder button and the middle finger on the bottom. So with my right hand this is what I do on the xbox in For Honor, you need to get used to it a little but it isn't something that strains your hand.

Holding the pad as I do, it is more comfortable to have the fingers straight and flat against the buttons, that is how I would suggest holding it normally. Now for zone I found a way that has more control that comes from playing guitar. With the guitar you press the strings on the fret board down with the tips of your fingers, by accident once I curled my fingers in order to do this with the xbox pad and since taking this to pvp I think I have only actually missed it once in all the times I have tried it doing it that way. So before going for the zone, curl your fingers at the knuckle,press both buttons with your fingertips rather than the flat of your fingers, like I said, I have missed it once in I don't know how many tries.

Might not work for everyone but if it works for a good deal of people then hopefully that is a quality of life improvement for you :)

Inconsistent73
11-08-2017, 02:58 AM
The simple and obvious solution is to let us bind zone attack to Y or X/LB(whatever you use for quick chat).

I can't fathom what could be so difficult about letting us remap the buttons the way we want to. It took them 3/4s of a year to finally set it up so I could guard break with LB, but they chose to do it in the LEAST flexible way they could think of so I'm forced to continue to change my controller settings for everything else, which is annoying as **** to reset every time I play a different game.

But as usual, Ubisoft is determined to demonstrate incompetence at every opportunity so we'll just have to wait until they figure it out 9 months from now