PDA

View Full Version : Nobushi nerf



Helnekromancer
11-02-2017, 09:58 PM
So I was late to the Warriors Den today and I heard they are replacing Nobushi's Blissful Rest to Second Wind?

WTF, that was the only Feat unique to her in her kit now everything is generic.

Did they explain why they did it? You are picking a full heal over a projectile or bleed strikes.

If you are getting ganked or about to get shoulder pinned or Stampede Charge you pop it so you don't instantly die while everyone is wailing on you.

With Body Count nerfed and Stalwart Banner nearly being useless, healing in this game is awful.

If they were going to take a key Feat out of a Hero atleast replace it with something new so you are nerfing the fighter but also buffing it. This is just a straight up nerf to a Hero that is already at the bottom of the food chain.

Like I said, did they explain why they are removing it? Because I never had a problem fighting with and against it.

I also think with the removal of blissful rest more Nobushis will just pick Sharpen Blade over it instead.

CandleInTheDark
11-02-2017, 10:08 PM
They said that in balancing feats they couldn't find an effective middle ground between too strong and not strong enough for that particular one. I haven't used it enough to have a real opinion, I tend to use the longbow if it is the tier I am thinking of.

Helnekromancer
11-02-2017, 10:21 PM
They said that in balancing feats they couldn't find an effective middle ground between too strong and not strong enough for that particular one. I haven't used it enough to have a real opinion, I tend to use the longbow if it is the tier I am thinking of.

It's a full heal to a character that struggles against almost every opponent that isn't Highlander. I like Longbow but players can just side dodge it and when I use Sharpen Blade, players either run away or send hate mail after they died in 3 lights because they don't build Debuff Resistance. So Blissful Heal was a safe middle ground in which I can fight longer and hold my own.

RiceComboA
11-02-2017, 10:25 PM
The feat is strong. Pop it at the right time and you can live through just about anything for a few seconds.

Still doesn't save you from the a catapult blast tho.... One can only wonder why that nerf hasn't happened yet.

Helnekromancer
11-02-2017, 10:36 PM
The feat is strong. Pop it at the right time and you can live through just about anything for a few seconds.

Still doesn't save you from the a catapult blast tho.... One can only wonder why that nerf hasn't happened yet.

Yea thats how you suppose to use it, at key moment to not die instantly, it's nowhere near broken like Conq where it's a passive and all he has to do is turtle. But yea that heal wont save you from catapult or the giant spears nor going into Revenge.

Moondyne_MC
11-02-2017, 11:49 PM
Yeah I'm a bit annoyed at the removal of it too. I've seen exactly 1 complaint thread about Blissful Rest, ever. A few updates later and it's gone. It was like a month or two ago when there were several sudden threads requesting a health buff to Shinobi, then next update their was one.

Then on the other side, certain characters got complaint threads 20 times a day, every day, for months before finally receiving attention.

Not trying to be salty or anything, just seems strange how they prioritise balance changes.

ChampionRuby50g
11-02-2017, 11:57 PM
You do know with blissful rest she was literally unkillable? A Viking could use fire flask to cover an area and a Nobushi could literally stand in the fire attacking anyone because she would continuously regain health until it hit 100? You can not say that was balanced. No other feat allows a hero to jump into a 1v4 and never take any damage basically because with every hit she would regain health, and she would never reach 100 because there would always be someone hitting her and chip damage. Blissful rest was broken,

Helnekromancer
11-03-2017, 12:52 AM
You do know with blissful rest she was literally unkillable? A Viking could use fire flask to cover an area and a Nobushi could literally stand in the fire attacking anyone because she would continuously regain health until it hit 100? You can not say that was balanced. No other feat allows a hero to jump into a 1v4 and never take any damage basically because with every hit she would regain health, and she would never reach 100 because there would always be someone hitting her and chip damage. Blissful rest was broken,

Unkillable? It's Nobushi, this isn't a warlord, or LB this is a Hero who lights are easy to read because of her stance, slowest unblockable in the game and only buff received was to her hidden stance., which in itself is a feast or famine ability. Even if the Nobushi is back to full health its not hard to beat her, hell most Heroes counter her just by doing side dash lights.

And Blissful Rest doesn't make you unkillable, if you do it late the enemy can still kill you, your gaining health at a steady pace but you are also eating heavies and lights from 3-4 different people.

ChampionRuby50g
11-03-2017, 02:25 AM
Unkillable? It's Nobushi, this isn't a warlord, or LB this is a Hero who lights are easy to read because of her stance, slowest unblockable in the game and only buff received was to her hidden stance., which in itself is a feast or famine ability. Even if the Nobushi is back to full health its not hard to beat her, hell most Heroes counter her just by doing side dash lights.

And Blissful Rest doesn't make you unkillable, if you do it late the enemy can still kill you, your gaining health at a steady pace but you are also eating heavies and lights from 3-4 different people.

Most heroes don't have a side dash light attack, only assassins and Kensei.
On Console in 4v4 she is a very strong hero, got the best range in game, very hard to punish her on parry, if you use hidden stance right you can dodge plenty of attacks and hit them in recovery frames, she has 0 recovery frames herself when all you do is dodge attacks which does make her untouchable. If you mean her kick as the slowest unblockable, do you have stats to back that up?
Way of the Shark is also very strong, considering a lot of her attacks revolve around bleed.

You're only eating heavy and lights if you are going all out swinging against 3-4 people, which itself is stupid. A smart player would not do that.

It is not fair for me when fighting a Nobushi 1v1 for me to get her at last bar of Heath only for her to pop blissful rest and then be able to attack me with immunity because no matter what I do I can't kill her unless I let her get 100% Health again and even then she will have revenge due to Revenge gain on attack and her loosing the fight in the first place. What other hero has those abilities?

Moondyne_MC
11-03-2017, 02:45 AM
Champ, I do agree that in certain situations, like the one you described, it was pretty ridiculous. However, I don't see why the couldn't tweak it rather than axe it all together - make it slightly slower, or bar it from healing environmental damage or something. She's got low defense and health, second wind just ain't gonna cut it in my opinion.

Helnekromancer
11-03-2017, 02:48 AM
All you see in 4v4 is Assassins, since it is console assassins are very effective.

With how ****ty the games connection and how every host is red barring hidden stance is not smart to use, have you tried playing nobushi in these red bar 4v4 modes? You try doing it and its a year late and you get chunked and waste stamina for trying.

Way of the Shark is a hit or miss passive, either you get lights from doing a combo which is near impossible in this game or doing side dash lights or down lights, the side dash lights are too soo and almost always block and the back light that hits top is only going to work once and thats only if the opponent doesnt parry or crushing counter you.

I don't have data to back up the kick because I don't feel like looking but from experience she has the slowest unblockable and no matter the size anyone can dodge out the way.

You are talking about a healing feat in a game where someone can come back to life, give his whole team a shield, gain health on attacks & blocks, and make every attack an unblockable and deal damage on kick and punches.

It's not fair for me when I'm fighting a Lawbringer 1v1 and he throws 3 different bombs at me and if I get hit by one the stagger is long enough for him to pin me 10 feet into a wall and get a free combo off. What other hero has those abilities?

ChampionRuby50g
11-03-2017, 03:46 AM
The other day when I was playing my LB I fought a Nobushi who dodged every one of my shoves from neutral with hidden stance, and managed to do so on a few of my other attacks. It's very effective when used right.

Here are the stats posted on Reddit, 209 days ago, so things may have changed. I'll just list the important ones.

Nobushi kick: 800ms
LB shove: 700ms
LB long arm: 1000ms
Shugo Demon Embrace: 1200ms
Warden shoulder bash: 800ms

So from those we can see it most certainly isn't the slowest.

Warlord healing feat was nerfed, as was the Centurions Phalanx feat because they where considered OP, just as blissful rest has Been.

No one has as many bombs I'll give you that, but there are plenty of feats that allow for something similar. Wardens stun grenade and then normal bomb, I'm pretty sure PK has the same. They can throw the stun which often can lead to a GB and then an OOS throw leading to heavy damage.
Bear traps for the Vikings, get someone's stuck and then similar concept.

So I could list similar feats for other heros that allow for combos, but you couldn't for Nobushi. Shouldn't that be telling enough?

Chumlonious005
11-03-2017, 04:30 AM
Screw blissful rest they need to buff shugoki's hyper armor. It should not be broken by teched gb. If teched it should instantly regenerate or else whats the point. if you throw out too many lights you get parried and heavy attacked but if you dont it never becomes useful

kbvlcvfkhgc
11-03-2017, 09:08 PM
my experience with the Nobushi has been that she's great in a straight line but really struggles against characters that can dodge well, iv'e learned to stay away from Berserkers and Peacekeepers who wait for me to attack and then side dodge into a counter attacks, or try to lead them into a restricted space to mitigate their dodging advantage, i remember exchanging side dash heavies with a Kensei's side dash lights once, his all landed but none off mine did?

the Kick is so well known and so slow its now almost useless and hidden stance has few real world applications as most character have multiple strike move sets so your dodge on start-up doesn't really offer much, that with the considerable stamina usage makes it a high risk maneuver & something to use very selectively,

she's not a terrible character but she has some serious weaknesses, high stamina usage and low health, no effective unblockable and extremely vulnerable to trading with uninterruptible characters like Warlord and Highlander, the loss of blissful rest is a blow, i usually need it most to stop killing myself when using fire trap

to be a good Nobushi requires a lot of patience and really good blocking reflexes.

CandleInTheDark
11-03-2017, 10:26 PM
Here is the thing I am struggling with with this argument.

Blissful rest is a tier three feat which if the Nobushi takes it they don't get a projectile or bleed to their attacks, fair enough.

Second wind is a tier three feat which if the Warden takes it they don't get a projectile or the ability to knock opponents over with guardbreaks.

So these two feats are the same tier and both mean the player doesn't get other 'Neat Stuff' (tm), both also have two other means of healing through feats. So if the argument is that going from blissful rest to second wind is a nerf, either blissful rest is too strong, second wind is too weak or the the devs feel second wind is where they want blissful rest to be but they can't quite get it there with the way it goes.

Knight_Raime
11-03-2017, 10:36 PM
Blissful rest was just the best heal in the game. It behaved different compared to most heals in that it ended up making a decent bushi who was alright with spacing basically impossible to kill. Second wind is annoying but it takes you out of the fight. Where as you can use blissful while fighting. If your best defense for supporting her keeping it is "lol bushi is bad tho" then we've got nothing to talk about. If a hero is so lopsided in design that they HAVE to rely on a broken feature in order to be considered viable then the character needs addressing.
Devs stated there was no middle ground in tweaking it so it was just removed.

As far as bushi goes she's actually quite strong in 4v4. She was considered a must pick back when her unlock tech existed. Even with it gone she's still really strong in a team fight. Bushi struggles in 1v1's not 4v4. She isn't top tier in anything but she's not dumpster trash like kensei or awkward AF like conq. It really just sounds like you struggle to play her.

UbiInsulin
11-03-2017, 11:06 PM
Hey guys, thanks for the feedback so far! The relevant part of WD is located at 1:05:37 in the video. The team was unable to reach a happy medium with Blissful Rest's usefulness, so the decision was made to remove it and replace with Second Wind:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oR8UpgWfu4

BTTrinity
11-04-2017, 12:33 AM
Wtf? They're getting rid of this feat. But not warlords self revive? Or PK's damage reduction? fck is wrong with these devs.

ChampionRuby50g
11-04-2017, 01:01 AM
Wtf? They're getting rid of this feat. But not warlords self revive? Or PK's damage reduction? fck is wrong with these devs.

Both of which have already seen nerfs.

I seriously don't see how Self revive is a problem now. He comes back at 50% HP, and that just means another easy kill to increase my renown. Plus, I rarely actually see this feat used.

SenBotsu893
11-04-2017, 01:15 AM
Both of which have already seen nerfs.

I seriously don't see how Self revive is a problem now. He comes back at 50% HP, and that just means another easy kill to increase my renown. Plus, I rarely actually see this feat used.

wow wow wow thats hardly true. its still a 25% damage reduction if he gets hit. turltle up for a measly 3 secs and you are back at 25% more Defense. hardly nerved. and remember: 25% damage reduction on a lvl 2 feat. thats INSANE. on lvl 3 id say its fine but on lvl 2 its a no brainer to equip.

and getting auto revive with 50 % is still insanely strong. why? (140HP + 35 Hp)/2 = 87.5 HP now we add his damage reduction *1.25 = 109 HP he can fight with. jeah thats litterally a full shinobi/centurion HP bar.

but back to topic:

i dont really understand why it gets removed from her list? now every nobushi is going bleed for certain. all her other feats are useless. she doesnt even have a good lvl 4 feat either.

CandleInTheDark
11-04-2017, 01:19 AM
Wtf? They're getting rid of this feat. But not warlords self revive? Or PK's damage reduction? fck is wrong with these devs.

As for thick skin, as all passives are going to, it activates for three seconds on taking damage and has a five second cooldown, that is hardly a heal to full (in before people saying I am complaining about this,nor should it be given it is a tier two feat). As for the Warlord, yeah it has seen nerfs and the thing there is it is a tier four feat that I am assuming (never played warlord) activates once then has a cooldown and only if they are not executed,it is supposed to be more powerful than a tier three feat, especially given he gives up a fire flask or regenerating out of combat for it.

Helnekromancer
11-04-2017, 01:40 AM
Wtf? They're getting rid of this feat. But not warlords self revive? Or PK's damage reduction? fck is wrong with these devs.

Eh, just gotta roll with the punches man. Just wish they didn't nerf her randomly out of the blew and slightly buffed lawbringer. If they notified us previous warriors den about that balance changes the community could have made a better alternative other than scraping the who feat entirely.

BTW is this the first Feat change in the game? Because Valkyrie has some pretty bad feats as a Hybrid.And Lawbringer can equip 3 different bombs for some reason.

ChampionRuby50g
11-04-2017, 02:09 AM
wow wow wow thats hardly true. its still a 25% damage reduction if he gets hit. turltle up for a measly 3 secs and you are back at 25% more Defense. hardly nerved. and remember: 25% damage reduction on a lvl 2 feat. thats INSANE. on lvl 3 id say its fine but on lvl 2 its a no brainer to equip.

and getting auto revive with 50 % is still insanely strong. why? (140HP + 35 Hp)/2 = 87.5 HP now we add his damage reduction *1.25 = 109 HP he can fight with. jeah thats litterally a full shinobi/centurion HP bar.

but back to topic:

i dont really understand why it gets removed from her list? now every nobushi is going bleed for certain. all her other feats are useless. she doesnt even have a good lvl 4 feat either.

BTT specifically mentioned PK's damage reduction, not Warlords. I meant it was nerfed for her too.

When you show me those numbers though, with the auto revive I can start to see why people feel that way about it. But I still think that it's fine as it is, purely because the amount of Warlords I see that actually use the feat numbers in the low.

Edit: Candle said it perfectly.

SenBotsu893
11-04-2017, 02:27 AM
BTT specifically mentioned PK's damage reduction, not Warlords. I meant it was nerfed for her too.

When you show me those numbers though, with the auto revive I can start to see why people feel that way about it. But I still think that it's fine as it is, purely because the amount of Warlords I see that actually use the feat numbers in the low.

Edit: Candle said it perfectly.

jeah true i think the reason most warlord go with fire flask instead is simpy that you dont want to die in the first place. and the fire flask is a good damage feat that will idealy prevent you from getting killed.

BTTrinity
11-04-2017, 02:35 AM
As for thick skin, as all passives are going to, it activates for three seconds on taking damage and has a five second cooldown, that is hardly a heal to full (in before people saying I am complaining about this,nor should it be given it is a tier two feat). As for the Warlord, yeah it has seen nerfs and the thing there is it is a tier four feat that I am assuming (never played warlord) activates once then has a cooldown and only if they are not executed,it is supposed to be more powerful than a tier three feat, especially given he gives up a fire flask or regenerating out of combat for it.

Thats partially good to hear, still absolutely ridiculous that a Mid tier hero who could use a couple buffs is getting nerfed out of the blue because of a feat NOBODY complained about. Also, theres no way to justify Self Revive if blissful rest is too op and getting removed, tier 4 ability or not.

PS: Blissful Rest is the only feat unique to Nobushi, please dont do this.

Edit: Id make it so Blissful Rest doesnt heal until the casting animation is over, and make it so the ability can be interrupted.... So that way she cant use it in the middle of a fight as an "Oh ****" button but rather to use it when out of combat or when shes able to retreat from a fight behind minions on minion point. Healing banner should be the "Oh ****" button.

Edit: Also, how about catapult? The unreactable teamkill? Why doesnt this get removed? Causes far more problems than B.Rest

SenBotsu893
11-04-2017, 05:39 PM
Thats partially good to hear, still absolutely ridiculous that a Mid tier hero who could use a couple buffs is getting nerfed out of the blue because of a feat NOBODY complained about. Also, theres no way to justify Self Revive if blissful rest is too op and getting removed, tier 4 ability or not.

PS: Blissful Rest is the only feat unique to Nobushi, please dont do this.

Edit: Id make it so Blissful Rest doesnt heal until the casting animation is over, and make it so the ability can be interrupted.... So that way she cant use it in the middle of a fight as an "Oh ****" button but rather to use it when out of combat or when shes able to retreat from a fight behind minions on minion point. Healing banner should be the "Oh ****" button.

Edit: Also, how about catapult? The unreactable teamkill? Why doesnt this get removed? Causes far more problems than B.Rest

jeah its really hard not to feel like the guy responsible for online balancing isnt biased towards the knights. not only in regards to feats but also character balancing...

BTTrinity
11-04-2017, 05:46 PM
jeah its really hard not to feel like the guy responsible for online balancing isnt biased towards the knights. not only in regards to feats but also character balancing...

Right? Catapults gib teams all day and get complained about more than pretty much any other feat in the game and they reply with "Hey, I know Nobushi is a Low-Mid tier hero who needs a buff, so lets remove a feat that literally nobody has complained about ever" -- What really makes that worse for me, is that its the ONLY feat in her kit that is Unique to Nobushi..... Its such an easy fix too :(

gj4063
11-04-2017, 05:55 PM
You guys spouting numbers do understand that on console you're not always seeing all of that animation time to match the ms of different moves, right? This is the problem.

BTTrinity
11-04-2017, 06:10 PM
You guys spouting numbers do understand that on console you're not always seeing all of that animation time to match the ms of different moves, right? This is the problem.

That sounds like an issue with the game itself, and not the feat.

Devils-_-legacy
11-04-2017, 06:15 PM
I dont think they should remove it just give the nobushi less health from it. It was a tad too powerfull for tier 3 but to simply remove it is a bit stupid what are they replacing it with?

BTTrinity
11-04-2017, 06:23 PM
I dont think they should remove it just give the nobushi less health from it. It was a tad too powerfull for tier 3 but to simply remove it is a bit stupid what are they replacing it with?

Second Wind.

Devils-_-legacy
11-04-2017, 06:29 PM
50 percent health if you not ledged or executed and nobushi needs her aoe fixed before they move to her feats

CandleInTheDark
11-04-2017, 06:36 PM
But again the main complaint seems to be that moving from one tier three healing feat to another tier three healing feat is a nerf. So, either blissful rest is too strong or second wind is too weak. If they are both working right they should have the same overall effect, from what the devs said on the Den my guess is they couldn't get it to a state where it wasn't much stronger than or much weaker than second wind and second wind was ultimately where they had wanted it to be.

BTTrinity
11-04-2017, 06:44 PM
But again the main complaint seems to be that moving from one tier three healing feat to another tier three healing feat is a nerf. So, either blissful rest is too strong or second wind is too weak. If they are both working right they should have the same overall effect, from what the devs said on the Den my guess is they couldn't get it to a state where it wasn't much stronger than or much weaker than second wind and second wind was ultimately where they had wanted it to be.

Thats ridiculous, whats the point of having 2 different feats if they do the same exact thing? Blissful rest should be the retreat and heal to full option, while second wind should be the oh shxt button.... Literally all they have to do to Blissful Rest is make it so the feat can be interrupted, and the heal doesnt start until cast is over, maybe have it bring her to 75% health instead of 100%. That way it doesnt have the same function as second wind and still has its use.

CandleInTheDark
11-04-2017, 06:55 PM
Thats ridiculous, whats the point of having 2 different feats if they do the same exact thing? Blissful rest should be the retreat and heal to full option, while second wind should be the oh shxt button.... Literally all they have to do to Blissful Rest is make it so the feat can be interrupted, and the heal doesnt start until cast is over, maybe have it bring her to 75% health instead of 100%. That way it doesnt have the same function as second wind and still has its use.

What I am trying to get at is that if the point of view is that blissful rest is stronger than second wind, and going by the title of this thread that is the belief, there is something wrong there to begin with as it should not be. We are not comparing a tier two feat with a tier three feat, they are both tier three feats, so ultimately they need to have the same level of effectiveness and evidently the devs feel that a, they don't and b, they can't get it there.

BTTrinity
11-04-2017, 07:42 PM
What I am trying to get at is that if the point of view is that blissful rest is stronger than second wind, and going by the title of this thread that is the belief, there is something wrong there to begin with as it should not be. We are not comparing a tier two feat with a tier three feat, they are both tier three feats, so ultimately they need to have the same level of effectiveness and evidently the devs feel that a, they don't and b, they can't get it there.

I still dont like the logic. They SHOULDNT have the same level of effectiveness. Blissful Rest should heal more at the cost of making yourself extremely vulnerable (So dont use it mid fight) and Second Wind should heal less with no drawbacks.

Jarl.Felix
11-04-2017, 07:45 PM
People play the most abused char zone attack flicker ingame, they spam the same combo with nobushi, no skilsl whatsoever required to play nobushi.... AND THEY CRY BECAUSE OF A FEATURE ! :)))

Incredible,. this game is dying.

BTTrinity
11-04-2017, 07:49 PM
People play the most abused char zone attack flicker ingame, they spam the same combo with nobushi, no skilsl whatsoever required to play nobushi.... AND THEY CRY BECAUSE OF A FEATURE ! :)))

Incredible,. this game is dying.

Nobushi requires more skill than 80% of the roster, Nobushi probably the hardest hero to master tbh... No character has to worry and think about as much as she has to. (if were talking straight up fighting with no exploits.)

SenBotsu893
11-04-2017, 08:28 PM
What I am trying to get at is that if the point of view is that blissful rest is stronger than second wind, and going by the title of this thread that is the belief, there is something wrong there to begin with as it should not be. We are not comparing a tier two feat with a tier three feat, they are both tier three feats, so ultimately they need to have the same level of effectiveness and evidently the devs feel that a, they don't and b, they can't get it there.

i would like to see feats on the same lvl to be on an equal level but why is it that knights get the more powerfull feats in the respective lvl bracket?
example:

lvl2 Kunai/throwing star vs flashbang. Kunai damage got damage nerf while flashbang still does 25 damage + drains stamina + aoe.

lvl3 Bows/Javelin vs pugno mortis. Bows/javelin got damage nerf while the knights trowing bombs have now higher damage + aoe wich makes it even harder to dodge than the bow/javelin

lv4 Arrowstorm/fireflask/spearstorm vs Catapult. Catapult is the easy lockon -> push buttom -> Insta Teamkill. while Arrowstrom has such a little aoe does not the same amount of damage and is easy to dodge. fire flask and spearstorm are strong but cant compare to the 1 hit kill potential of the Catapult.

there is a very clear effectiveness discrepancy in the feats and incidentally it falls into the knights favour.
i dont want to be the guy pointing fingers at factions but if you just compare these its hard to remain composed.

CandleInTheDark
11-04-2017, 08:36 PM
i would like to see feats on the same lvl to be on an equal level but why is it that knights get the more powerfull feats in the respective lvl bracket?
example:

lvl2 Kunai/throwing star vs flashbang. Kunai damage got damage nerf while flashbang still does 25 damage + drains stamina + aoe.

lvl3 Bows/Javelin vs pugno mortis. Bows/javelin got damage nerf while the knights trowing bombs have now higher damage + aoe wich makes it even harder to dodge than the bow/javelin

lv4 Arrowstorm/fireflask/spearstorm vs Catapult. Catapult is the easy lockon -> push buttom -> Insta Teamkill. while Arrowstrom has such a little aoe does not the same amount of damage and is easy to dodge. fire flask and spearstorm are strong but cant compare to the 1 hit kill potential of the Catapult.

there is a very clear effectiveness discrepancy in the feats and incidentally it falls into the knights favour.
i dont want to be the guy pointing fingers at factions but if you just compare these its hard to remain composed.

And I don't disagree that some feats need looking at, we weren't talking about that. My problems as it stands are that we are even talking about moving from one feat to an equal level feat as a nerf and that some people for their argument a way back were saying but this (tier 4) feat is more powerful which it should be as much as maybe some need looking at.

SenBotsu893
11-04-2017, 08:52 PM
And I don't disagree that some feats need looking at, we weren't talking about that. My problems as it stands are that we are even talking about moving from one feat to an equal level feat as a nerf and that some people for their argument a way back were saying but this (tier 4) feat is more powerful which it should be as much as maybe some need looking at.

yes its only logical that the higher lvl feat has the be more potent. my gues is that people are confused(and rightly so) as to why a Feat wich had been no ones concern got removed out of the blue while there are way more troublsome feeats unchanged out there.

BTTrinity
11-04-2017, 09:29 PM
And I don't disagree that some feats need looking at, we weren't talking about that. My problems as it stands are that we are even talking about moving from one feat to an equal level feat as a nerf and that some people for their argument a way back were saying but this (tier 4) feat is more powerful which it should be as much as maybe some need looking at.

I wasnt just trying to say that these feats are more powerful, Im trying to say these feats are the ones that actually cause problems, these are the feats people actually complain about, Ive NEVER ONCE seen ANYONE complain about blissful rest, Ive seen more complaints about sharpen blades and longbow (after nerf) and the fact they're removing a unique feat to a low-mid tier character that needs a buff when there are far more op characters with more op feats that need looking at, hell the fact that were even balancing feats right now is utterly ridiculous when people can infinitely block and parry with no repercussions.

Moondyne_MC
11-05-2017, 01:45 AM
It shouldn't have to be as black and white as "either Second Wind is too weak, or Blissful Rest is too strong". There's no reason why they can't have different applications, different strengths and weaknesses to add to a kit.

Second Wind is a chunk of instant health, great for a closer range, aggressive character. Blissful Rest, perhaps after some tweaking, could have been the slower, heal over time that yielded a greater total heal but also left you in greater danger if used while still under attack. Keep in mind she has lower health and defense than the majority of Knight characters who have SW inherently.


It also adds to her "zoner" class of character, in that it has great potential if you can successfully defend a zone around yourself, but leaves you vulnerable if someone can break past your optimal range.

Helnekromancer
11-05-2017, 01:59 AM
It shouldn't have to be as black and white as "either Second Wind is too weak, or Blissful Rest is too strong". There's no reason why they can't have different applications, different strengths and weaknesses to add to a kit.

Second Wind is a chunk of instant health, great for a closer range, aggressive character. Blissful Rest, perhaps after some tweaking, could have been the slower, heal over time that yielded a greater total heal but also left you in greater danger if used while still under attack. Keep in mind she has lower health and defense than the majority of Knight characters who have SW inherently.


It also adds to her "zoner" class of character, in that it has great potential if you can successfully defend a zone around yourself, but leaves you vulnerable if someone can break past your optimal range.

- remove blissful heal and give her a generic heal, okay whatever

- But give her a new 4th tier feat, aoe healing aura, similar to Warden having Morale Booster giving his team bonus damage.

So now Nobushi is nerfed and buffed at the same time.


Blissful Heal was a unique type of Second Wind at least give her a unique type of Stalwart Banner.

CandleInTheDark
11-05-2017, 02:18 AM
It shouldn't have to be as black and white as "either Second Wind is too weak, or Blissful Rest is too strong". There's no reason why they can't have different applications, different strengths and weaknesses to add to a kit.

Second Wind is a chunk of instant health, great for a closer range, aggressive character. Blissful Rest, perhaps after some tweaking, could have been the slower, heal over time that yielded a greater total heal but also left you in greater danger if used while still under attack. Keep in mind she has lower health and defense than the majority of Knight characters who have SW inherently.


It also adds to her "zoner" class of character, in that it has great potential if you can successfully defend a zone around yourself, but leaves you vulnerable if someone can break past your optimal range.

The different applications makes more sense to me and I had kind of figured that, it was just that as soon as people start calling it a nerf that is what leads to the thought that ok they think it is stronger but it is supposed to be around the same level. Obviously the best possible solution is for the devs to balance it so that it is on a par with the effectiveness of any other tier three feat, from the Den it sounded like they had tried and had no solution they liked to the point they decided they were trying to reinvent the wheel when they had one they were happy with.

In all honesty Nobushi is currently my second character (currently, I like the sound of Shaman) but I never used it, I had the minion kill heal and the banner, I decided the bow was more useful in a mass xvx fight after having success with the crossbow as peacekeeper and I have ended dominions with it.

Trenk2009
11-05-2017, 03:21 AM
Roman: "Hey guys, I almost killed a Nobu with a single Cent punish, but she regained all her health using a 300 sec cooldown feat ! OMG THAT'S SO OP ! Let's nerf it !

Dev 1: "Eh.... You do realize that your char has a 80 sec cooldown feat that allow him to get a guaranteed max punish for no reason what so ever right ?"
Dev 2: "And you do realize that each knight char has a feat that can do an AOE one shot after a 1 sec warning don't you ?"
Dev 3: "Also, every Viking char has almost spammable bear traps that allow them to get a free top heavy while putting you out of stamina, but I guess that's OK ... right ?"
Dev 4: "Not to mention the Bombbringer, able to spend a whole game not even playing the game anymore but playing bomber man instead ..."
Dev 5: "Overall, every Samourai feats are either too hard to place, or as dangerous for the user that it is for the target"

Roman: ".... DAMIEN ! C'EST TOI QUI A RECRUTÉ CES ENCULÉS LÀ ?!"

CandleInTheDark
11-05-2017, 03:23 AM
Except Roman is a Valkyrie main.

Trenk2009
11-05-2017, 03:28 AM
Except Roman is a Valkyrie main.

So what ? Does it make any of what I said less funny ? or accurate ?

Also really ?! Why isn't she buffed a bit then ? Like a guaranteed light after a shield bash ? Or a shorter recovery time on the sweep if it connected ?

Jarl.Felix
11-05-2017, 11:21 AM
I doubt Roman even play this game :))