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Curently
10-25-2017, 08:40 PM
Well it's been a while now, and looking back on my old tier list I don't know what I was thinking with a lot of the heroes I placed, there was some bias with me being a Warden main but this new list I have made is due to playing against/with high tier players such as Setmyx, Pain0, Hmmmm1,ISkys and many rep 70+'s.

Taking into consideration 1v1's, 2v2's and 4v4's
Strongest to weakest in descending order.

Top Tier
Centurion
Gladiator
Raider Top Tier - Normally will win and will be the main heroes being used by good players in 1v1's and 4v4's.
Lawbringer
Warlord

Mid Tier
PK
Conquer Mid Tier - Can stand up to Top Tier example conquer hard counters centurion/anyone who relies on heavy mix ups, will see
Shinobi occasionally and will normally **** stomp anyone in low tier.
Beserker
Shinob
Beserker
Nubushi

Low Tier
Kensei Low Tier - Will Normally lose to anything above them unless they are a lot better then the opponent.
Shugoki (Warden is here because in high level play you will never get a SB to land and 99% of your zones will be blocked
Orochi resulting in a free GB, has no real way of opening up the opponent, and you can either roll out of SB or casually walk
Warden out of it when OOS. I'm being defensive because I know someone will say how OP warden is and how he should be in a
Highlander special tier above Top Tier)
Valkyrie

Netcode_err_404
10-25-2017, 09:00 PM
In which universe raider and LB are better than warden and pk ?

Also.

You cannot mix all game mods into a one tier list. You simply can't.
In 4v4 90% of the classes have one cheesy move that can be spammed over and over to grant stunlocks and free damage.

In 1v1 unless you are one of these pro tournament raider doing nothing except the 50/50 unlock charge, you won't be so effective.

In 4v4 warlord and conqs are broken as ****, conqs wiith perks can block for 3 minutes helaing himslef. And warlord is the warlord.

Shinobi is a cancer too, sniping you from 30000 meters with free GB that hard stuns you for 5 seconds.

1v1 doesn't have a tier. Most of the time in these so called "high lvl duels" you won't see nothing except super safe attacks that cannot be easily punished spammed over and over and over.


Or pk playing super safe and turtling attacking only with occasional istant canceled zones.

Here what high lvl duels are all about.

Thats why nobody takes this game seriously, honestly if im in the competitive mood, i play tekken 7

Lyskir
10-25-2017, 09:12 PM
In which universe raider and LB are better than warden and pk ?

Also.

You cannot mix all game mods into a one tier list. You simply can't.
In 4v4 90% of the classes have one cheesy move that can be spammed over and over to grant stunlocks and free damage.

In 1v1 unless you are one of these pro tournament raider doing nothing except the 50/50 unlock charge, you won't be so effective.

In 4v4 warlord and conqs are broken as ****, conqs wiith perks can block for 3 minutes helaing himslef. And warlord is the warlord.

Shinobi is a cancer too, sniping you from 30000 meters with free GB that hard stuns you for 5 seconds.

1v1 doesn't have a tier. Most of the time in these so called "high lvl duels" you won't see nothing except super safe attacks that cannot be easily punished spammed over and over and over.


Or pk playing super safe and turtling attacking only with occasional istant canceled zones.

Here what high lvl duels are all about.

Thats why nobody takes this game seriously, honestly if im in the competitive mood, i play tekken 7

pretty much this

Curently
10-25-2017, 09:14 PM
1.Had a whole argument about to say, but a better one would be... You sound like an redditer as your complaining about a move that can only be used if he gets a light parry of if you whiff incredibly badly (talking about Shinobi).

2. But another thing is that there is no true stun locks now, what you actually mean is that you can't play against your opponent and give an example of a cheesy move and super safe moves, warlords headbutt? free GB on dodge. PK zone? More of a parrying problem but you should be keeping your guard to right if you can't react to it. Conq shield bash? Hes literally just a massive wall that has a massive skill ceiling on him to make him worthwhile offensively, but defensively yes he's a pain.

3.Raider is literally only top tier because he can have one of the highest OOS punishes/normal punishes in the game, with his normal being a free heavy, into a heavy zone guess to parry, if wrong your either taking that to the face or being hit by another top heavy/normal zone(which does 45 dmg).

SoulEavens
10-25-2017, 09:23 PM
I just got to ask: You put Berserker into Mid Tier two Times, do you think he is so incredibly Medicore, that he warrants being there twice? XD :p
And Guys, he said this is HIS Personal Tier list.
I think Tier lists in General can be actually rather decieving. Certainly while some Characters are stronger than other, the Player will be the best with the Hero that suits his Personal playstyle the best. For example i personally am a Meanance as a Conqueror, since he is my Main, i am a halfway decent Berserker, and somewhat Acceptable Shinobi, but i can't play Shugoki to save my Life, even though i really like him.

So while Tiers DO play a Role, what matters more is, how the Player fits with particular Hero. As i said, i love the Conq (Gangsta) Life. There is nothing more satisfying then holding off the Entire enemy Team for Minutes until my Alies arrive. (IF i can pull that off of course, it's a lot harder than it looks, unless i am Fighing Newbies. In that case i am near Immortal.) Somtimes i think i can hear them from beyong their Screens. "DIE DIE! WHY DON'T YOU ********* DIE ALREADY!?". Actually,.... i might be an Evil person.

RiceComboA
10-25-2017, 10:01 PM
warlords headbutt? free GB on dodge.

Are we playing the same game here? I don't remember being able to punish this move on a dodge. Please enlighten.

Netcode_err_404
10-26-2017, 03:47 AM
Are we playing the same game here? I don't remember being able to punish this move on a dodge. Please enlighten.

He was punishable, the 1 week of his nerfed career. Now cannot be punished anymore, except maybe from a perfect timing dodge into GB by a raider.

Netcode_err_404
10-26-2017, 03:49 AM
1.Had a whole argument about to say, but a better one would be... You sound like an redditer as your complaining about a move that can only be used if he gets a light parry of if you whiff incredibly badly (talking about Shinobi).

2. But another thing is that there is no true stun locks now, what you actually mean is that you can't play against your opponent and give an example of a cheesy move and super safe moves, warlords headbutt? free GB on dodge. PK zone? More of a parrying problem but you should be keeping your guard to right if you can't react to it. Conq shield bash? Hes literally just a massive wall that has a massive skill ceiling on him to make him worthwhile offensively, but defensively yes he's a pain.

3.Raider is literally only top tier because he can have one of the highest OOS punishes/normal punishes in the game, with his normal being a free heavy, into a heavy zone guess to parry, if wrong your either taking that to the face or being hit by another top heavy/normal zone(which does 45 dmg).

Raider stampede stunlocks you into his animation, shinoby ranged Gb stunlocks you into his animation, centurion stunlocks you into his anmation.

Stunlock = hard stun without having the chance to do nothing.

Stahlrusse
10-26-2017, 08:19 AM
Warden wrecks most people in any mode and you don't even need a high rep on him.

So my list

High: Warden
Mid: Warden
Low: Everyone else

Charmzzz
10-26-2017, 09:42 AM
In which universe raider and LB are better than warden and pk ?

Or pk playing super safe and turtling attacking only with occasional istant canceled zones.


Raider and LB are Top Tier in 4v4 for sure. Stampede / Impale are, together with Shinobi ranged GB and Cent charged heavy, by far the best ganking moves in the game. Add Shove-50-50 and stunning tap into mixup spam to this and there you go. Every good team contains a Nobushi for his teamfight and minion-clearing potential plus a Raider and a LB.

Warden can at least force a reaction from LB through SB, PK can't. LB can just stand there and put his guard to the right, then block into Shove 50-50 all day. LB gets a parry on a Light? Boom, 45 Damage. Same for Raider. Parry a heavy? Wall-splat available? Oh boy, you are pretty screwed now. Eat alot of stamina damage from Raider + free Light into UB Zone mixup or eat a Heavy into Shove into 50-50 mixup from LB. Raider can do this too. Every hero with constant guard and a good-reflex player can just turtle up and wait for his mates to arrive in 4v4 or wait for a parry into a heavy punish. Also, LB has 150 (or 145?) HP. Raider 140. PK 120, Warden 130.

I would place Raider and LB higher than PK, maybe not Warden since he has an UB move as well. In high level play it mostly comes down to forcing a reaction from the opponent so you can punish that, and PK cannot do this at all.

bananaflow2017
10-26-2017, 10:10 AM
I think this should be divided into 4v4 and 1v1...
Actual 4v4 meta:
Raider, lb, zerker, noobu.
Easy thing: just gank and stunlock so zerker and noobu just can do theire glass canon stuff.
So I think these 4 are the top tier. Not cuz of theire kit itself. It's because of theire synergizing with the Raider and the lb.
1v1 is a tottally other thing. Here is a strong Cent for example. If you cant gank him like in the 4v4 modes he is a really hard punishing wall.
In 4v4 u can cut through him like a piece of paper if u gank him.
Same for a pk or a shinobi.
Warden is also really strong in 1v1 same as a good wl still is.
Also the lb is still strong in 1v1. But 1v1 is only about turteling and how to avoid getting turteled by ur enemy.

Tyrjo
10-26-2017, 11:21 AM
Are we playing the same game here? I don't remember being able to punish this move on a dodge. Please enlighten.

WL headbutt is very punishable on dodge.

Netcode_err_404
10-26-2017, 11:56 AM
Raider and LB are Top Tier in 4v4 for sure. Stampede / Impale are, together with Shinobi ranged GB and Cent charged heavy, by far the best ganking moves in the game. Add Shove-50-50 and stunning tap into mixup spam to this and there you go. Every good team contains a Nobushi for his teamfight and minion-clearing potential plus a Raider and a LB.

Warden can at least force a reaction from LB through SB, PK can't. LB can just stand there and put his guard to the right, then block into Shove 50-50 all day. LB gets a parry on a Light? Boom, 45 Damage. Same for Raider. Parry a heavy? Wall-splat available? Oh boy, you are pretty screwed now. Eat alot of stamina damage from Raider + free Light into UB Zone mixup or eat a Heavy into Shove into 50-50 mixup from LB. Raider can do this too. Every hero with constant guard and a good-reflex player can just turtle up and wait for his mates to arrive in 4v4 or wait for a parry into a heavy punish. Also, LB has 150 (or 145?) HP. Raider 140. PK 120, Warden 130.

I would place Raider and LB higher than PK, maybe not Warden since he has an UB move as well. In high level play it mostly comes down to forcing a reaction from the opponent so you can punish that, and PK cannot do this at all.



4v4 is a trash mode for a lot of reasons, but at least has 2 pros :

1) People cannot turtle too much

2) every class can be used and every class can be effective.


LB and raider are good in 4v4 for ****ty reasons. And a lot of people here, me included are agianst these free istant pokes out of the screen that can lead to wall splat and free damage every time, its stupid and feels cheap.

However, raider parry punish is 50 not 45.


In a 1vx situation a light spamming pk is death sentence, You cannot dodge dashes,from a conq and in the same time blocking istant lightning lights,

Charmzzz
10-26-2017, 12:23 PM
4v4 is a trash mode for a lot of reasons, but at least has 2 pros :

1) People cannot turtle too much

2) every class can be used and every class can be effective.


LB and raider are good in 4v4 for ****ty reasons. And a lot of people here, me included are agianst these free istant pokes out of the screen that can lead to wall splat and free damage every time, its stupid and feels cheap.

However, raider parry punish is 50 not 45.


In a 1vx situation a light spamming pk is death sentence, You cannot dodge dashes,from a conq and in the same time blocking istant lightning lights,

Still you used the cheese-moves 90% of the time when I faced you several times in Dominion. ;)

And why is PK special in that case? Every 500ms Light (Top Light of Warden, LB, Valk, Glad, Orochi etc etc) would be the same in a 1vX scenario because you only have to block the side where your not-locked target is attacking from to block all their attacks. PK is even pretty bad in this since she has no UB to force a reaction on the ganked guy. The only good move is soft-feint into GB in those situations. On every other occasion where, e.g. a Raider Stampede or LB Impale, hits you go for a guaranteed heavy like every good player would.

RatedChaotic
10-26-2017, 12:29 PM
Your list is void because.....Red Nat Warriors. It doesnt matter what hero Red Nat players use.

Netcode_err_404
10-26-2017, 12:29 PM
Still you used the cheese-moves 90% of the time when I faced you several times in Dominion. ;)

And why is PK special in that case? Every 500ms Light (Top Light of Warden, LB, Valk, Glad, Orochi etc etc) would be the same in a 1vX scenario because you only have to block the side where your not-locked target is attacking from to block all their attacks. PK is even pretty bad in this since she has no UB to force a reaction on the ganked guy. The only good move is soft-feint into GB in those situations. On every other occasion where, e.g. a Raider Stampede or LB Impale, hits you go for a guaranteed heavy like every good player would.

You still keep to telling me that, but i don't remember having faced you ever. Btw, its not me, its the game, that allows me to be cheesy, but at least i recognize that, and I do not think I'm good in this game, because I know skill doesn't really matter. Its not tekken.

I do poke ppl with my LB out of screen and I recognize that is cheap and broken.

But ubi wants the game like that, i cannot force them to actually fix it. Even if i tried.

OH, lb top light is 600 not 500 and does 17 dmg. Pk 20 and zone should be 24.

Next time you see me, type in chat, if im watching the screen I will reply.

Charmzzz
10-26-2017, 01:00 PM
You still keep to telling me that, but i don't remember having faced you ever. Btw, its not me, its the game, that allows me to be cheesy, but at least i recognize that, and I do not think I'm good in this game, because I know skill doesn't really matter. Its not tekken.

I do poke ppl with my LB out of screen and I recognize that is cheap and broken.

But ubi wants the game like that, i cannot force them to actually fix it. Even if i tried.

OH, lb top light is 600 not 500 and does 17 dmg. Pk 20 and zone should be 24.

Next time you see me, type in chat, if im watching the screen I will reply.

But you said, one post earlier, that "And a lot of people here, me included are agianst these free istant pokes out of the screen that can lead to wall splat and free damage every time, its stupid and feels cheap." Pathetic in that context... I even talked to you in those matches and you kept complaining about my Rep 40 PK with yourself being LB, turtling or Impaling 24/7. :D

Oh and LB Top Light is 500ms and 15 Damage. PK is 500ms and 17 Damage. Much difference, eh? PK Zone is 400ms and 20 Damage, but costs half her stamina and always comes from your right side. So you put your guard there and only react to the others sides - problem solved. Now try to do that to a LB who turtles into Block - Shove - 50-50.

Devils-_-legacy
10-26-2017, 01:17 PM
Shut up about red Nat warriors every post lol and how can you say using the poke is trash and a cheesy move then say the game put it there that's why you use it 😂 and because a pk can chain 3 lights in were a lb only gets a poke

Charmzzz
10-26-2017, 01:43 PM
Shut up about red Nat warriors every post lol and how can you say using the poke is trash and a cheesy move then say the game put it there that's why you use it �� and because a pk can chain 3 lights in were a lb only gets a poke

PK can only chain 2 Light Attacks - First Light is 500ms @17 Damage, second Light is 400ms @15 Damage. Since alot of people in my MMR can block those attacks - PK becomes pretty hard to play. But LB is good in every MMR because of his guaranteed Shove on Block and Impale into Wall-Splat Uber-Damage. But hey, Mister "Lord-Micidial" knows it better. He constantly fights Red Nat Warriors (I face one in 20 matches...), uses cheese moves but does not like them and he cannot block 500ms attacks, does not even know his main has one too. :D

Netcode_err_404
10-26-2017, 02:20 PM
But you said, one post earlier, that "And a lot of people here, me included are agianst these free istant pokes out of the screen that can lead to wall splat and free damage every time, its stupid and feels cheap." Pathetic in that context... I even talked to you in those matches and you kept complaining about my Rep 40 PK with yourself being LB, turtling or Impaling 24/7. :D

Oh and LB Top Light is 500ms and 15 Damage. PK is 500ms and 17 Damage. Much difference, eh? PK Zone is 400ms and 20 Damage, but costs half her stamina and always comes from your right side. So you put your guard there and only react to the others sides - problem solved. Now try to do that to a LB who turtles into Block - Shove - 50-50.

How many tournaments LB won ? How many pk won ?


Thats your answer.

Charmzzz
10-26-2017, 02:31 PM
How many tournaments LB won ? How many pk won ?

Thats your answer.

Old story bro, the tournaments that PK won were on Console before all her Nerfs 5+ months ago. The Characters that win Plat + Duel Tournaments in the game on PC are rarely PK's, my bet is Shugoki, LB and Raider.

bananaflow2017
10-26-2017, 03:10 PM
Old story bro, the tournaments that PK won were on Console before all her Nerfs 5+ months ago. The Characters that win Plat + Duel Tournaments in the game on PC are rarely PK's, my bet is Shugoki, LB and Raider.


Maybe some hard Cent turtles. Shugoki with the bug or how do they do that?

Netcode_err_404
10-26-2017, 03:27 PM
Old story bro, the tournaments that PK won were on Console before all her Nerfs 5+ months ago. The Characters that win Plat + Duel Tournaments in the game on PC are rarely PK's, my bet is Shugoki, LB and Raider.

Bugs don't count,

Charmzzz
10-26-2017, 06:06 PM
You clearly did not face a full turtle Shugoki who only goes for an occasional Light into Headbutt, but focuses on GB through your attack to wallsplat into Demon Embrace the whole match. Same with LB, turtle into Block - Shove only. Those are low risk - high reward moves. Raider goes for stunning tap mixups, if he gets one GB you are pretty much screwed that round as PK.

Netcode_err_404
10-26-2017, 08:57 PM
You clearly did not face a full turtle Shugoki who only goes for an occasional Light into Headbutt, but focuses on GB through your attack to wallsplat into Demon Embrace the whole match. Same with LB, turtle into Block - Shove only. Those are low risk - high reward moves. Raider goes for stunning tap mixups, if he gets one GB you are pretty much screwed that round as PK.

No, i never faced a turtle. They are too rare in this broken game.

Sarcasm.

Ofc i did, and you have surely better chances to win as pk, than kensei or HL

Charmzzz
10-27-2017, 09:00 AM
No, i never faced a turtle. They are too rare in this broken game.

Sarcasm.

Ofc i did, and you have surely better chances to win as pk, than kensei or HL

Uhm, your original statement was "PK OP" as always, and now it became "PK has better chances of winning against Shugo / turtles than Kensei / HL"?? Man, I just cannot take you serious anymore. You keep discussing with wrong arguments (LB Top Light e.g.) and change your standpoint as soon as someone shows you how wrong you are. Bye, won't discuss with you anymore.

RatedChaotic
10-27-2017, 11:22 AM
Shut up about red Nat warriors every post lol and how can you say using the poke is trash and a cheesy move then say the game put it there that's why you use it �� and because a pk can chain 3 lights in were a lb only gets a poke

Well Congratulations, you must be one of the few that doesnt see many Red Nat Warriors. Charms said 1 in 20 matches. I'd be happy if that was my case. Out of 3 Brawl Matches heres what I seen 3 Red Nats, 2 Yellow, 1 green. One match was me and my teammate green our opponents were red and yellow. We couldnt react to the red ones. The attacks were like 100ms attacks. I see more red nats now than I have in the past. Connection manipulation is an issue on console. Hell most players dont even know what the NAT is...So they stream use music apps on their satellite wifi during a thunderstorm. Your not going to experience the same as me because regions and p2p. How many times have you found a match in your region? Since release its 3 for me and thats me exiting matchmaking til I find one. While Red Nats are an issue for me and many others in the Xbox community. I dont need to explain it...Its all in the Reviews for this game.

PS...During the Betas I made a thread saying AFK farming was going to be an issue. I was laughed at, told to shut up, among other things. Months later I was the one laughing.....just sayin..

NinjaRonin85
10-27-2017, 12:46 PM
Yeah I hate red nat type players had I fight with a red bar shinobi today on ps4 he could dodge forward and do a heavy before I could hit him with orochi top light. Feels bad

Netcode_err_404
10-27-2017, 03:09 PM
Uhm, your original statement was "PK OP" as always, and now it became "PK has better chances of winning against Shugo / turtles than Kensei / HL"?? Man, I just cannot take you serious anymore. You keep discussing with wrong arguments (LB Top Light e.g.) and change your standpoint as soon as someone shows you how wrong you are. Bye, won't discuss with you anymore.


Turtling is a broken part of this game, which is a game design flaw. Has nothing to do with the fact that pk is broken since d1 because her lights are hard to parry and do solid damage, and like all assassin is basically immune to OOS punishemnt.

So, again whats your point ? Its like you are salty because others can still win against you using cheap game design exploits, and you just get triggered every time someone says that pk is OP / S tier.

Even centurion which is one of the best class in the game, cannot win against a turtle conq. But its not because cent is weak, its because conq is broken.

Devils-_-legacy
10-27-2017, 03:44 PM
I seem to be paried with Europe mostly I've had 5 games since beta on psn from people in my region. I'll agree tho it's a issue but u comment it every day It might be more helpful to make another thread about it ik theres been a few and nothing been done. I i wont lie i use to be yellow Nat only on for honor tho but I opened the port to go green and I've started to see more red Nats now then ever but I use the grace period or take the ten mins
P.s So did so meny of us

RatedChaotic
10-27-2017, 06:41 PM
First Holiday Event Multiplayer of the Day......3 Red Nats. My team green with a few yellows. Xbox users or anyone with a microsoft account can see my Activity Feed. I took multiple screenshots and videos...Multiplayer is broken aswell as tier lists in this broken game......

I've made multiple threads about Red Nats and connection manipulations. Never has a Ubisoft Moderater Comment. Also sent Eric Pope many messages. I'm one of the "****y" ones. Why do you think at the end of the Warriors Den Red Nats or Connectivity is never mentioned? Because they pick and choose them. They know their sh*t is f*cked up...Bio saying ya we made it shield shield flower shield shield....She was probly tellin the truth....nuff said.

RatedChaotic
10-27-2017, 07:01 PM
My videos title......Xmas Tree of Nats....True story..

UbiInsulin
10-27-2017, 07:35 PM
Thanks everyone for your different takes on the tier list! We do need to keep this thread about balance/tiers rather than concerns with red NAT players, although that is a totally legitimate topic of discussion.