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EyyupY95
10-24-2017, 01:12 PM
All he does is light spam and run away i just need to quess where his light spam is gonna come from. Nerf him and reduce the light spam on console!

Tyrjo
10-24-2017, 01:19 PM
I have to agree that the Shinobi is out of control after the latest patch. The buff was just simply to much in every regard...

NinjaRonin85
10-24-2017, 03:02 PM
Yeah shinobi is so good now I had a game last night 3 shinobi and 1 pk it was a nightmare of light spam and long range guard breaks we had no chance to win every time we capped a zone it was lost in seconds that kick has really good tracking and I got hit with a heavy for 40 damage that I could not block.

If you started to win they just ran off to get health or back up getting gb at range from someone out of site and not on radar every time the guy you are fighting blocks a heavy then being pinned in place for 5 seconds while everyone spams heavy attacks on you is just not fun.

I also think they need to look at the poison blade feat for all assassins it's way to strong.

Also berserker needs a buff he is so bad now that tiny bit more health he has is nothing compared to how safe shinobi is berserker gets nothing for free, if they want shinobi to be that safe he needs a damage nerf 40 free damage from a kick is way op.

SlickCriminal27
10-24-2017, 03:33 PM
Yeah shinobi is so good now I had a game last night 3 shinobi and 1 pk it was a nightmare of light spam and long range guard breaks we had no chance to win every time we capped a zone it was lost in seconds that kick has really good tracking and I got hit with a heavy for 40 damage that I could not block.

If you started to win they just ran off to get health or back up getting gb at range from someone out of site and not on radar every time the guy you are fighting blocks a heavy then being pinned in place for 5 seconds while everyone spams heavy attacks on you is just not fun.

I also think they need to look at the poison blade feat for all assassins it's way to strong.

Also berserker needs a buff he is so bad now that tiny bit more health he has is nothing compared to how safe shinobi is berserker gets nothing for free, if they want shinobi to be that safe he needs a damage nerf 40 free damage from a kick is way op.

Absolutely ****ing right! It deals WAY too much damage even on full defense builds!

VaynahAxeMurdah
10-24-2017, 03:38 PM
All of you are right, Shinobi is probably the most hated character right now, it's not for fun I always hunt them down first whenever I see them. He needs to be nerfed, that flying kick is so overused and pathetic.

Devils-_-legacy
10-24-2017, 04:16 PM
All of you are right, Shinobi is probably the most hated character right now, it's not for fun I always hunt them down first whenever I see them. He needs to be nerfed, that flying kick is so overused and pathetic.

They gave shinobi 20 health and less stamina from his dodge and back flips thats all they did before 2 heavys and a light he died .double dodge the kick because they tend to throw a heavy out or light after it or get Close and gb I started to main shinobi that's my biggest weakness the double dodge is the worst move for it special you if ur hero has a forward grab just watch out for the deflect it's alot more powerfull as you can change it to a kick to drain a bit of stamina or go for bleed

gj4063
10-24-2017, 06:11 PM
They're cancer in 4v4 with gear starts turned off. They're never stamina starved, while stamina limited characters need to test every fight like a slow, deliberate 1v1 duel with stamina conservation at the forefront of all chains you might want to use. Well that is until his teammates show up cuz you took to long fighting him.

UbiJurassic
10-24-2017, 07:54 PM
We'll make sure all this feedback is noted and forwarded over to the team. We're keeping a close watch on the hero balance after the last update and we want to ensure that the changes made progress the game in a direction that players will enjoy.


Absolutely ****ing right! It deals WAY too much damage even on full defense builds!
Instead of defense, invest in debuff resist. That is that stat that affects the bleed's effectiveness, not defense.

Helnekromancer
10-24-2017, 09:16 PM
Yeah shinobi is so good now I had a game last night 3 shinobi and 1 pk it was a nightmare of light spam and long range guard breaks we had no chance to win every time we capped a zone it was lost in seconds that kick has really good tracking and I got hit with a heavy for 40 damage that I could not block.

If you started to win they just ran off to get health or back up getting gb at range from someone out of site and not on radar every time the guy you are fighting blocks a heavy then being pinned in place for 5 seconds while everyone spams heavy attacks on you is just not fun.

I also think they need to look at the poison blade feat for all assassins it's way to strong.

Also berserker needs a buff he is so bad now that tiny bit more health he has is nothing compared to how safe shinobi is berserker gets nothing for free, if they want shinobi to be that safe he needs a damage nerf 40 free damage from a kick is way op.

You have to max out Debuff Resistance, at max its like 40% but if your in the negative, poison blade and 2 lights will almost kill you if you aren't a tank, happened to my nobushi up against a PK and i quickly made a 2nd gear set to counter bleeders.

timur_the_boss
10-25-2017, 01:33 AM
Cancerturion aswell needs a nerf. you might aswell remove his stamina bar. No point giving him stamina in the first place. If he had sex it would last 50 years. cos he never runs out of stamina.

Tyrjo
10-25-2017, 09:43 AM
I also think they need to look at the poison blade feat for all assassins it's way to strong.


I made a suggestion about this in the suggestions section a month or two back. No one really bothered to chime in. It is indeed OP, two lights and you are done, from full health.

Rickster_
10-25-2017, 07:19 PM
So much for the centurion's kicks "being overpowered" but they let the shinobi get away with their's. I was in a match where there were 2 shinobi and 2 shugoki, and they split up into groups of 2 on each obj. and the shinobi were just spamming kicks while the shugoki charged their unblockable heavy on us. and they also keep throwing us at the corners where the shinobi kept spamming his kicks and the shugoki did 2 top unblockable heavy and i died from those to hits since i couldn't do anything. we all kept getting tossed around by the kicks and the charged heavies from the shugoki.

You can't even punish the shinobi if you dodge his kick especially if you parry his long range attacks because his recovery is so damn quick or he still out of your range when you parry his long range moves.

DoctorMcBatman
10-25-2017, 07:38 PM
The kick should not have hyperarmor. Take that away, and I have no complains about shinobi. But hyper armor on that kick + the health buff + everything else is a bit OP.

Netcode_err_404
10-25-2017, 09:04 PM
Cancerturion aswell needs a nerf. you might aswell remove his stamina bar. No point giving him stamina in the first place. If he had sex it would last 50 years. cos he never runs out of stamina.

IMeanwhile gladiator can literally get parried 3 times in a row and still have 1/4 of stamina remaining,.

bananaflow2017
10-26-2017, 10:28 AM
The kick should not have hyperarmor. Take that away, and I have no complains about shinobi. But hyper armor on that kick + the health buff + everything else is a bit OP.

The problem is not the hyperarmor itself.
His kick is superior to everything. Usually you still get a knockback if u get hit by a cent kick for example. Nur this kick just negates everything! That sucks should be normal hyperarmor like every other hero has.

Charmzzz
10-26-2017, 10:32 AM
IMeanwhile gladiator can literally get parried 3 times in a row and still have 1/4 of stamina remaining,.

Meanwhile Gladiator does not get a guaranteed heavy from one of his Unblockables (which are punishable hard compared to Kick of Shin).

IlMacgyverIl
10-26-2017, 01:45 PM
This thread makes me laugh. Shinobi is still in a tight spot when it comes to balance. He might have tiptoed one tiny step in the right direction.
He can still be killed in 3-4 hits.
He can still be out maneuvered.
He can still be punished for ranged attacks/GBs.

It really sounds like everyone still hasnít been able to cope with his play style.
He is designed to get in, hit, and get out of engagements. Itís been said time and time again.

The stamina buff did not affect the actual kick, but the dodging, and backflip abilities.

He did not have enough stamina to perform these abilities, and still be able to attack in between, so you REALLY had to back up and wait for regen.

The one thing that ends a shinobi is staying on his heels when he tries to create some room for him/herself in a fight. Itís been done to me many times.
If heís charging an attack, close in. Donít let him/her have much of a gap to recover on a parried attack, or counter GB.

In combat, you have to prevent the opponent from doing what they are trying to do. Which in this case, itís create distance.

These brain-less posts are exhausting, for me, so I can only imagine how ubijurassic feels after ubinoty got transferred out....

SerArthur-Dayne
10-26-2017, 02:40 PM
This thread makes me laugh. Shinobi is still in a tight spot when it comes to balance. He might have tiptoed one tiny step in the right direction.
He can still be killed in 3-4 hits.
He can still be out maneuvered.
He can still be punished for ranged attacks/GBs.

It really sounds like everyone still hasnít been able to cope with his play style.
He is designed to get in, hit, and get out of engagements. Itís been said time and time again.

The stamina buff did not affect the actual kick, but the dodging, and backflip abilities.

He did not have enough stamina to perform these abilities, and still be able to attack in between, so you REALLY had to back up and wait for regen.

The one thing that ends a shinobi is staying on his heels when he tries to create some room for him/herself in a fight. Itís been done to me many times.
If heís charging an attack, close in. Donít let him/her have much of a gap to recover on a parried attack, or counter GB.

In combat, you have to prevent the opponent from doing what they are trying to do. Which in this case, itís create distance.

These brain-less posts are exhausting, for me, so I can only imagine how ubijurassic feels after ubinoty got transferred out....

Fully agree. He got buffed because he was almost unanimously considered weak (and they wouldnít have buffed him if shinobi was doing well either).

óSmall adjustment to reflex guard was needed, and this has only slightly helped him when getting ganked.

ó Stamina reduction on backflips and dashes because he had probably the worst stamina pool in the entire game bar none, given his play style revolves around needing to backflip in and out, double dash to access his moves, and a kick which is still costly. Shinobi still needs to rest for stam in every encounter, he is just now in line with the roster here. (With the exception of centurion)

ó20hp buff. Not even a free heavy in most cases. Still the lowest hp in the game.

Pretty telling that most people here are complaining about the shinobis kick, not mentioning it is the easiest move in the game to dodge, majority of the roster can punish it (a lot of the time you can gb them before the kick comes out)( and I bet if I asked on compedative for Honor reddit, they would give me a list of the rest of the heros and how they can punish it) (also pretty much every shinobi follows up with the ranged heavy, so when you parry it you can pull him to ground, hit him, then gb him as he tries to backdash out of there).

People are complaining about the ranged GB when they completely miss and whiff attacks and think itís unfair that they get punished for it?

Granted, those of you complaining about the speed of light attacks on console since timesnaps removal have a completely valid point, (but this is a problem with almost the entire rosters light attacks being unreactable, not just shinobi). Hoping once servers are in they can really tweak the game in this regard.

But honestly if you are struggling against ranged attacks, you need to go practice to parry them, or just block them and keep advancing on shinobi if thatís too hard for you.

And as macgyver said: put the pressure on them and keep advancing, easiest character to gb.

Tyrjo
10-26-2017, 03:55 PM
It really sounds like everyone still hasn’t been able to cope with his play style.
He is designed to get in, hit, and get out of engagements. It’s been said time and time again.


Exactly. That is why it makes zero sense for him to have regular assassin guard switch speed and only ten less HP then a normal Assassin. So he paid with 10HP for superior dodge ability? That seems like a really small price to pay.

The hyper armor on kick still baffles me. It's like it negates other players hyper armor. The Shinobi is of really tiny stature, it makes no sense for such a hero to even have hyper armor, let alone for an assassin to have it. Yeah I know Berserker also has it but he/she can get away with it.

NinjaRonin85
10-26-2017, 03:59 PM
Yes it's so easy to dodge shinobi kick while this other shinobi that's out of site is doing ranged heavys while this other one is doing the ranged gb while this other one also spams kicks I just need to get good :(

uglyface87
10-26-2017, 04:05 PM
But honestly if you are struggling against ranged attacks, you need to go practice to parry them, or just block them and keep advancing on shinobi if that’s too hard for you.

Hahahah... practice you say, parry the ranged attack... OK. What happens after we parry the ranged attacks of Shinobi from 10 meters from us ?!?! He goes down and you cant do sh1t after the parry, cuz he is way to far from you. And the time you go to hit him... he will already stand up and even kick you. So whats the point of parry this hits?!?! Is hard to parry the lights. I dont se shinobi to make parry's often, wonder why is that.. maybe he dont need to , cuz he got spamming lights and ****ing hyperarmor kick above every other hyperarmor.

SerArthur-Dayne
10-26-2017, 04:48 PM
Exactly. That is why it makes zero sense for him to have regular assassin guard switch speed and only ten less HP then a normal Assassin. So he paid with 10HP for superior dodge ability? That seems like a really small price to pay.

The hyper armor on kick still baffles me. It's like it negates other players hyper armor. The Shinobi is of really tiny stature, it makes no sense for such a hero to even have hyper armor, let alone for an assassin to have it. Yeah I know Berserker also has it but he/she can get away with it.

This is entirely disingenuous, and false. ALL heroes have the same guard switch speed. ...But if your talking about reflex guard deterioration time (which I assume you are) you are also wrong again. Shinobis reflex guard STILL deteriorates around twice as fast as the other assasins (with the exception of Gladiator), this is still a large disadvantage in group ganks.

He has paid a lot more than 10hp for the benefits of his kit. Unlike every single other assasin in the game, shinobi does not have a dodge attack, because the kick is so slow on reaction it can both be dodged and traded with, and also has the worst ZA while all other assasins have the best ones in the game. Worst deflect that is STILL both broken in many ways, and has bad properties like you can be GB mid shadowstep, and enemy attacks will track you the whole way through the teleport part. Itís also the worst class when outnumbered due to the moveset, bad guard, worst health, worst ZA, and lack of dodge attack. Also debateably has the worst gadgets and feats in the roster.

If they took the hyperarmour off the kick like you are asking for, donít you understand that all anyone would need to do it just ZA or start swing for the fences, and render it fully 100% redundant, even against the boonies of noobs? Itís the slowest unblockable in the entire game. The only change they need to make to shinobis hyperarmor kick, is to allow it to kick other shinobis out of their kick for whoever landed theirs first.


Yes it's so easy to dodge shinobi kick while this other shinobi that's out of site is doing ranged heavys while this other one is doing the ranged gb while this other one also spams kicks I just need to get good :(

Not itís not easy to dodge it when you are being ganked 4v1 in your hypothetical scenario, geez... neither is dodging warden SB, raider charges, kensei top unblockables, conq shield bash to floor spam, warlord headbuts or ledges, shugokis instadeath hugs and kisses, lawbringers just jousting you into walls or pancake flipping you, valks Shield bash spamming you to the floor, nobishis poking you from out of range and Kicking you, cent.... everything, dunmaglass with all his unblockables and kicks and crazy distance Celtic curse, Gladiator toe stabs punches and lightning fast ZA....

Itís not meant to be easy in a 3v1, but you also get lots of revenge off of getting kicked. Donít let shinobis go off screen, position yourself so you can see them. The kick also doesnít stumble you in revenge, so use this time to top heavy trade with any shinobis who attempt it.

ChrisTaben2017
10-26-2017, 11:11 PM
Glad this post is here or I would of come made it myself,
NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF

Mighty_Mackerel
10-28-2017, 03:43 AM
The hyper armor on the kick is the only thing that needs to go in my opinion. A high level Shinobi player knows to never use their long range attacks and/or grabs because they're literally flat on the ground if that fails, and to always back handspring away after missing a kick which means they are free to kick as much as they want without worrying about getting punished for it until they land a hit. So what's left for them to do then? Kicks, light attacks, feint into light attack combinations and deflections... and we all know that that boils down to a game of nigh in-human reflexes. So, in summary, to get the drop on a Shinobi, it's either parry their light attack, (not impossible, but good luck) or the better option, hit them while they're mid-kick... but we all know that's useless... so get ready to play "Guess Which Direction the Shinobi is Going to Throw a Light Attack Next" so you can get that parry in, because dodging them is useless too since their follow up light attack or feint into GB will just get you after that as well.

But then again... if they take away the hyper armor on the kick, anyone who plays a Shinobi will know to never use that either and therefore be reduced to light attacks only... which in the end, that will ultimately mean absolute cancer for the rest of us who aren't impeccably superior at parrying insanely fast light attacks, and the Shinobi becomes the most basic and blandest character in the game.

So it is definitely true when people say the Shinobi is in a tight spot. If he stays the way he is now, he's a cancerous nightmare. If he gets nerfed, he's a dumpster fire.

ChampionRuby50g
10-28-2017, 04:01 AM
This is entirely disingenuous, and false. ALL heroes have the same guard switch speed. ...But if your talking about reflex guard deterioration time (which I assume you are) you are also wrong again. Shinobis reflex guard STILL deteriorates around twice as fast as the other assasins (with the exception of Gladiator), this is still a large disadvantage in group ganks.

He has paid a lot more than 10hp for the benefits of his kit. Unlike every single other assasin in the game, shinobi does not have a dodge attack, because the kick is so slow on reaction it can both be dodged and traded with, and also has the worst ZA while all other assasins have the best ones in the game. Worst deflect that is STILL both broken in many ways, and has bad properties like you can be GB mid shadowstep, and enemy attacks will track you the whole way through the teleport part. It’s also the worst class when outnumbered due to the moveset, bad guard, worst health, worst ZA, and lack of dodge attack. Also debateably has the worst gadgets and feats in the roster.

If they took the hyperarmour off the kick like you are asking for, don’t you understand that all anyone would need to do it just ZA or start swing for the fences, and render it fully 100% redundant, even against the boonies of noobs? It’s the slowest unblockable in the entire game. The only change they need to make to shinobis hyperarmor kick, is to allow it to kick other shinobis out of their kick for whoever landed theirs first.



Not it’s not easy to dodge it when you are being ganked 4v1 in your hypothetical scenario, geez... neither is dodging warden SB, raider charges, kensei top unblockables, conq shield bash to floor spam, warlord headbuts or ledges, shugokis instadeath hugs and kisses, lawbringers just jousting you into walls or pancake flipping you, valks Shield bash spamming you to the floor, nobishis poking you from out of range and Kicking you, cent.... everything, dunmaglass with all his unblockables and kicks and crazy distance Celtic curse, Gladiator toe stabs punches and lightning fast ZA....

It’s not meant to be easy in a 3v1, but you also get lots of revenge off of getting kicked. Don’t let shinobis go off screen, position yourself so you can see them. The kick also doesn’t stumble you in revenge, so use this time to top heavy trade with any shinobis who attempt it.

Shinobi does not have the worst feats, not by a long shot. Heal/ Stamina back on successful hits? Combine that with no timesnap on console, very quick lights makes a Shinobi with 4 feats nearly unkillable. Don't forget that they also control the entire fight due to their superior movement against all heros. What about Sharpen Blade? Nail Bomb or Arrow storm? Slip through raising attack on dodge? So I strongly disagree that Shinobi has some of the worst feats, when you consider how they work with the hero itself.

KersmackIDKFA
10-28-2017, 10:04 PM
It's just Roman's latest pitty hero, had to have somewhere for the cent players to land after we finally got that tone on them. The fact that it's so insanely strong in 4v4 and ruining this game even more while the devs refuse to hotfix any balance adjustment should not be a surprise.

The_B0G_
10-28-2017, 10:24 PM
The distance on the ranged gb is a little ridiculous but besides that I don't usually have an issue with them on my kensei

Helnekromancer
10-29-2017, 12:59 AM
Shinobi does not have the worst feats, not by a long shot. Heal/ Stamina back on successful hits? Combine that with no timesnap on console, very quick lights makes a Shinobi with 4 feats nearly unkillable. Don't forget that they also control the entire fight due to their superior movement against all heros. What about Sharpen Blade? Nail Bomb or Arrow storm? Slip through raising attack on dodge? So I strongly disagree that Shinobi has some of the worst feats, when you consider how they work with the hero itself.

Neither one of those perks are guarantee, the attack boost on dodge is barely noticeable and healing on strike is a lvl 4 feat meaning a shinobi has to be close range with lights just to get the value off and has to be winning in order to get lvl 4, if your team is getting smashed none of you wont even get lvl 3 feats.

ChampionRuby50g
10-29-2017, 01:34 AM
Neither one of those perks are guarantee, the attack boost on dodge is barely noticeable and healing on strike is a lvl 4 feat meaning a shinobi has to be close range with lights just to get the value off and has to be winning in order to get lvl 4, if your team is getting smashed none of you wont even get lvl 3 feats.

If your team is getting smashed it's hard to get feats regardless of who you are playing though, it's not just locked to Shinobi. Shinobi can close the range to you very quickly and then get out before you even know he's there too. The feats are strong.

Netcode_err_404
10-29-2017, 03:47 AM
Shinobi ranged GB needs an adjustament.

It works as hard stun, and honestly it shoudn't. If they make the stun breaking with damage, then he is fine.


Ranged GB is BS and should not exist in the first place.


Now lets focus on gladiators, this broken character needs more than a slight nerf, and he is still untouched.

MadoBaba
10-29-2017, 08:50 AM
Shinobi and PK are annoying cause all they do is spam lights and then back up... but the ****ing Gladiator is a combination of light spam and other annoying moves, like that ****ing zone. I faced a glad who only used his zone and then ran away and there was next to nothing I could do be whoopty doo he can cancel the hit if the bash doesnt connect. After the game he even said that the character was broken and yet we haven't seen any nerf on him.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
10-29-2017, 02:14 PM
When season 3 has ended and they're still having balancing problems with season 2 characters

https://media.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/giphy.gif

Maximum_Playa25
10-29-2017, 09:05 PM
Yeah poison blade does so much damage pretty much 4 lights and your done for

Netcode_err_404
10-29-2017, 10:23 PM
Yeah poison blade does so much damage pretty much 4 lights and your done for

Full geared kensei vs full geared orochi with poison, a top light can oneshot the kensei unless he spec'd anti dot.

GNG.DardyDard
10-30-2017, 12:07 PM
Agreed. I rarely jump onto "this is OP" bandwagon until I've gotten enough proof from playing myself. A 600ms (Unsure on the timing for that, correct me if I'm wrong) unblockable that grants a heavy and can be cancelled into a backflip if whiffed so it can only be punished by assassins who can combo from a dash attack, unpredictable lights that are simple jabs forward on the animation and confirm each other after a hit, and the ability to spam ranged gbs and ranged attacks from 10+ meters away with no consequences what so ever. A running trend with this community is they seem to think that if something is nerfed, it is instantly bad.

kbvlcvfkhgc
10-30-2017, 04:04 PM
Shinobi, PK & Gladiator are all the same, they just spam the sh!t out of the fast lights and dodge/runaway, its the fuc#ing height of frustration but what are u gonna do? its been the same from day one, its their play-style i guess,

i do however strongly object to the Shinobi ranged Guard-break, fine when your facing the Shinobi but that sh!t just isn't fair when your fighting someone else and from off map a Shinobi with the stealth feat pulls you over to the edge and kicks you off the ledge? you don't even know that they are there? you cant see them and have no opportunity to respond, ranged attacks in a melee centered game seems like a strange design choice that can be ruthlessly exploited by certain types of players, it rewards a particularly cowardly form of play that is just going to anger & frustrate the people that fall victim to it.