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TSCDescon
10-20-2017, 10:23 PM
After getting 2 shotted by a berserker with gear/revenge as a shugoki, I went into custom game to test some things out.

What I've tested was quite mind blowing, I should say.

I know some characters are able to do TWO HEAVY ATTACKS after a OOS throw. Orochi an Berserker.

First, let's go over with Orochi. Okay, Orochi is able to do two top heavy attack after a OOS throw and revenge parry. His top heavy are quick enough to hit an opponent on the ground twice. Second, the Berserker. The Berserker is able to do ONE SIDE HEAVY into TOP HEAVY on a OOS thrown opponent. HOWEVER, the strange thing is that you cannot do a SIDE HEAVY into TOP HEAVY after a revenge parry against all the other character, BUT YOU CAN AGAINST A SHUGOKI. Yes, fat boy himself takes 2 heavy flippin' hits from a Berserker, regardless getting OOS thrown or revenge parry.

So, tell me UbiSoft dev team. Why is it a Shugoki only thing? Do you hate Shugoki that much that's why he isn't getting any love?

Stacking defense on gear is useless, along with the feats because of this 25% extra Shugoki takes after losing his UI. Not to mention all the vikings have a attack boost feat, Viking's Fury or something like that?

And before people come here and say "he has the highest health in the game". No, he does not have the highest health in the game. He has the health of an Assassin without his UI. (25% extra damage taken)

There are more problem with the Shugoki than this and I can name a few.
1. After doing a fully charged heavy with a revenge parry, your opponent can just get up and guard break your face and **** on you
2. Heavy attack startup is too slow that you can get guard break on reaction.
3. Stamina pauses after using Oni Charge.
4. Head Butt uses extra stamina after a successful hit when you recover. (WHY?)
5. Zone attack is still useless even with the buff.
6. Defense feats are useless because of the 25% damage taken.

Want me to keep going?

Please show some love to the fat man, UbiSoft.

brashtralas
10-20-2017, 10:34 PM
After getting 2 shotted by a berserker with gear/revenge as a shugoki, I went into custom game to test some things out.

What I've tested was quite mind blowing, I should say.

I know some characters are able to do TWO HEAVY ATTACKS after a OOS throw. Orochi an Berserker.

First, let's go over with Orochi. Okay, Orochi is able to do two top heavy attack after a OOS throw and revenge parry. His top heavy are quick enough to hit an opponent on the ground twice. Second, the Berserker. The Berserker is able to do ONE SIDE HEAVY into TOP HEAVY on a OOS thrown opponent. HOWEVER, the strange thing is that you cannot do a SIDE HEAVY into TOP HEAVY after a revenge parry against all the other character, BUT YOU CAN AGAINST A SHUGOKI. Yes, fat boy himself takes 2 heavy flippin' hits from a Berserker, regardless getting OOS thrown or revenge parry.

So, tell me UbiSoft dev team. Why is it a Shugoki only thing? Do you hate Shugoki that much that's why he isn't getting any love?

Stacking defense on gear is useless, along with the feats because of this 25% extra Shugoki takes after losing his UI. Not to mention all the vikings have a attack boost feat, Viking's Fury or something like that?

And before people come here and say "he has the highest health in the game". No, he does not have the highest health in the game. He has the health of an Assassin without his UI. (25% extra damage taken)

There are more problem with the Shugoki than this and I can name a few.
1. After doing a fully charged heavy with a revenge parry, your opponent can just get up and guard break your face and **** on you
2. Heavy attack startup is too slow that you can get guard break on reaction.
3. Stamina pauses after using Oni Charge.
4. Head Butt uses extra stamina after a successful hit when you recover. (WHY?)
5. Zone attack is still useless even with the buff.
6. Defense feats are useless because of the 25% damage taken.

Want me to keep going?

Please show some love to the fat man, UbiSoft.

They can show him some love along with fixing gb/hit trading—>throw into wall—-> demons embrace.

Actually, just get rid of demons embrace. It’s a terrible move and never should have been included to begin with.

ChampionRuby50g
10-20-2017, 10:45 PM
They can show him some love along with fixing gb/hit trading—>throw into wall—-> demons embrace.

Actually, just get rid of demons embrace. It’s a terrible move and never should have been included to begin with.

I agree, Demons embrace is really poorly though out. I hate when I get punished for been offensive against a Shugo and he GBs me straight after my first attack, and ends up with more health than he started off with. I think that there shouldn't be any attacks that grant the user health back, and in the case of Shugos Demon Embrace, it should not take his own health away on miss. Just remove those two aspects of it, and it's fine IMO.

To OP, I also think there are several moves in several heros that pause stamina revenge for a little after using them. So that love needs to be shared.

TSCDescon
10-20-2017, 11:01 PM
I agree, Demons embrace is really poorly though out. I hate when I get punished for been offensive against a Shugo and he GBs me straight after my first attack, and ends up with more health than he started off with. I think that there shouldn't be any attacks that grant the user health back, and in the case of Shugos Demon Embrace, it should not take his own health away on miss. Just remove those two aspects of it, and it's fine IMO.

To OP, I also think there are several moves in several heros that pause stamina revenge for a little after using them. So that love needs to be shared.

If DE gets removed then he's pretty much useless and thats all he got along with light into head butt.

Say, even if his DE does get nerf. What good will it do? What purpose does it serve?

A miss DE still get you killed even if the devs took out the health loss if missed. Landing a DE still get you killed in a 4v4 situation. Your opponent can just hammer you down when your stuck in the animation. Sure it's useful in 1v1 but it's a staring contest and good luck trying to bait as a Shugoki.

Anyways enough with DE, that's not the only issue that we have to bring up.

TSCDescon
10-20-2017, 11:06 PM
They can show him some love along with fixing gb/hit trading—>throw into wall—-> demons embrace.

Actually, just get rid of demons embrace. It’s a terrible move and never should have been included to begin with.

Ok. Then what move should you add to compensate this? Don't forget he has only 2 moves. Light to head butt, gb to DE.

UbiInsulin
10-20-2017, 11:19 PM
Please show some love to the fat man, UbiSoft.

Well, if you put it that way...

I'll definitely let the team know your thoughts on where Shugoki is at. Thanks for the in-depth post!

TSCDescon
10-20-2017, 11:39 PM
Well, if you put it that way...

I'll definitely let the team know your thoughts on where Shugoki is at. Thanks for the in-depth post!

Thanks. Very much appreciated.

iAlwaysL0se
10-20-2017, 11:39 PM
I started out maining shugo and the best way to get easy kills back then was to bait people into the insta kill demons embrace at 1bar of health.
Its funny how he uses a Kanbo which is mostly just wood with some studed metal pieces and then you have higlander with a massive claymore that would weigh twice as much as that kanabo and yet he's faster than Shugoki and has way more of a kit to work with. Shugo was indeed poorly designed. I agree getting rid of the HP buff and debuffs on demons embrace needs to go, increase his attack start up speed and give him a bit more to work with. literally useless unless you play defensive meta and only attack while being attacked using UI stance. there's nearly no use of using feints because
1. they are stupid easy to read
2. they take a bunch of stamina away.
I rarely see shugo being used these days unless its in dominion on a team trying to run a tank train (cent, warlo, shug, something like that). But wait guys, they'll fix Shugo, they just need 9 more months of data first...

TSCDescon
10-20-2017, 11:54 PM
I started out maining shugo and the best way to get easy kills back then was to bait people into the insta kill demons embrace at 1bar of health.
Its funny how he uses a Kanbo which is mostly just wood with some studed metal pieces and then you have higlander with a massive claymore that would weigh twice as much as that kanabo and yet he's faster than Shugoki and has way more of a kit to work with. Shugo was indeed poorly designed. I agree getting rid of the HP buff and debuffs on demons embrace needs to go, increase his attack start up speed and give him a bit more to work with. literally useless unless you play defensive meta and only attack while being attacked using UI stance. there's nearly no use of using feints because
1. they are stupid easy to read
2. they take a bunch of stamina away.
I rarely see shugo being used these days unless its in dominion on a team trying to run a tank train (cent, warlo, shug, something like that). But wait guys, they'll fix Shugo, they just need 9 more months of data first...

I'm the only Shugoki on PS4. As far as I can tell. I don't see any other Shugoki.

ChampionRuby50g
10-20-2017, 11:54 PM
If DE gets removed then he's pretty much useless and thats all he got along with light into head butt.

Say, even if his DE does get nerf. What good will it do? What purpose does it serve?

A miss DE still get you killed even if the devs took out the health loss if missed. Landing a DE still get you killed in a 4v4 situation. Your opponent can just hammer you down when your stuck in the animation. Sure it's useful in 1v1 but it's a staring contest and good luck trying to bait as a Shugoki.

Anyways enough with DE, that's not the only issue that we have to bring up.

It also works the other way in 4v4 situations. If the numbers are on the Shugo's side. even if its just a 2v1. Enemy is focused on your ally, Shugo gets the DE and the enemy might as well get a death sentence. A missed DE results in a free GB, not death every time.

TSCDescon
10-21-2017, 12:11 AM
It also works the other way in 4v4 situations. If the numbers are on the Shugo's side. even if its just a 2v1. Enemy is focused on your ally, Shugo gets the DE and the enemy might as well get a death sentence. A missed DE results in a free GB, not death every time.

Don't have to be just guard break. You get two heavies off while the Shugoki is recovering from his DE because it won't stagger him.

I input error against a orochi today in the event and he smacked me with two top heavies.

ChampionRuby50g
10-21-2017, 12:35 AM
That's another case of bad mechanics IMO. One heavy I agree with, but two? Never should happen, in the case of a missed DE or OOS throw. Same with beserker.

TSCDescon
10-21-2017, 01:28 AM
That's another case of bad mechanics IMO. One heavy I agree with, but two? Never should happen, in the case of a missed DE or OOS throw. Same with beserker.

It's an issue. I just tested again. You dont need to gb a missed DE. You can just do a heavy or two heavy for faster character.

If anyone has a PS4 and want to do some testing a, add me.

Psn: TSC_Descon

iAlwaysL0se
10-21-2017, 01:34 AM
I'm the only Shugoki on PS4. As far as I can tell. I don't see any other Shugoki.

so sad... such sadness indeed lol I feel for you man. I have long since moved on to using all characters. you can have more fun that way, at least I do but its mostly gladiator for me now even though he's a bit of a mess too.

TSCDescon
10-21-2017, 01:48 AM
so sad... such sadness indeed lol I feel for you man. I have long since moved on to using all characters. you can have more fun that way, at least I do but its mostly gladiator for me now even though he's a bit of a mess too.

It is sad.

TSCDescon
10-21-2017, 05:29 AM
Just another update. Shugoki's charge heavy can get parried by another player while you're locked on to another.

mrmistark
10-21-2017, 06:31 AM
Shugoki used to be my main for a long time. You can definitely tell he isn't played anymore because I'm still considered top 2% or 3% shug on Xbox and to be fair I'm really not that good at this game. I'd say just above average because honestly, the fastest reaction time I've ever gotten on an easily anticipated and predictable test after many many tries was still over 300ms combined with a 100ms standard guard stance change over...

But anyways I digress...

I do disagree that his feint and zone are useless, but only in the context that I feint top heavy-> zone into 2nd hit cancel-> light on the same side as zone finish-> headbutt if I can afford it. Always gets the parry fiends as the light directly after zone feint comes out rather fast. Just fast enough to be a slight pause in the zone but quick enough for any parry attempt to be screwed. Unfortunately with max gear this ends up leaving me with no stam to spare, but usually they back off for a second anyways.

Honestly demons embrace health is a totally different beast. Health should not be taken on a miss as it is punishable enough, but then despite my personal opinion that the health gain is fine, would totally turn this into overly spammed if the health gain was left. My personal opinion of a fix would be to take out health effects of DE completely and instead allow it to be soft feinted into a light much like raiders zone. Still give the one shot property and allow the normal heavy, double heavy on orochi and zerk to be the punish against his missed DE.

If i were to fix shugoki it would be changes to DE above, reduce the recovery of a successful headbut allowing a follow up attack, don't take extra damage without HA, and give him a the other couple small double chains: L->L, H->L. Because honestly it's ridiculous that there is such a delay for a follow up viable attack. The two chains L->H, H->H aren't even remotely viable. At least the other two not in his moveset have a chance. Also increase his gb range and a successful CG should not make you drop HA.

TSCDescon
10-21-2017, 09:13 AM
Not a lot of people think that. They want DE to be removed completely. Shugoki is in a bad state unless someone tells me otherwise.

I've put so many hours on this character and I know all of his issues. Almost rep 20.

Zombie.Mantis
10-21-2017, 09:25 AM
i like how we've been posting on orochi for months and crickets... but this post and ok ill let the dev know... nothing on orochi?? never???