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B101UK
02-27-2004, 03:54 PM
UPKEEP, COOKIE'S, TALLBOY'S & GRAND SLAM + others

http://www.btinternet.com/~marktod/CFS3_STUFF/ww2.jpg

I don't suppose you wont some of the above or SBC with 4lb Magnesium & 20lb & 30lb Phosphorus bombs With lod's?

SBC: were used in Blenheim's, Lancaster's, Wellington's & Mosquito's + others.
COOKIE'S: were used in Lancaster's, Wellington's & Mosquito's as well as by the USAF.
TALLBOY'S & GRAND SLAM: were used in Lancaster's, as well as by the USAF in B-29.
UPKEEP: were used in Lancaster's.

B101UK
02-27-2004, 03:54 PM
UPKEEP, COOKIE'S, TALLBOY'S & GRAND SLAM + others

http://www.btinternet.com/~marktod/CFS3_STUFF/ww2.jpg

I don't suppose you wont some of the above or SBC with 4lb Magnesium & 20lb & 30lb Phosphorus bombs With lod's?

SBC: were used in Blenheim's, Lancaster's, Wellington's & Mosquito's + others.
COOKIE'S: were used in Lancaster's, Wellington's & Mosquito's as well as by the USAF.
TALLBOY'S & GRAND SLAM: were used in Lancaster's, as well as by the USAF in B-29.
UPKEEP: were used in Lancaster's.

Nunsuch
02-28-2004, 02:57 AM
The Grand Slam or Earthquake was a different bomb. Where the 12,000 pound Tallboy was essentially a rapidly produced easy to build modular bomb the 22,000 pound Grand Slam was a highly developed specialised weapon for bunker penetration. The Tall Boy was used against shipping it was the bomb that killed the Turpitz where the Grand Slam was used against underground targets like railroad stations.
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/tirpitz/miscellaneous/tallboy/pictures/grandslamlancaster.jpg http://www.bismarck-class.dk/tirpitz/miscellaneous/tallboy/pictures/bombscompared2.jpg

Cajun76
02-28-2004, 04:14 AM
From what I gather after reading "The Dam Busters", Barnes Wallis's original design was what became known as the Grand Slam. To sell the idea to a skeptical British leadership, he developed the TallBoy as a highly successful demonstrator. It was also realized that the "10 toner" wasn't needed in every situation, and that Tallboys had a very important role. The TallBoy was a 'baby' earthquake bomb at only 6 tons. However, it could be dropped from greater heights than that of the Grand Slam. Neither was envisioned or designed to penetrate reinforced concrete bunkers, they just happened to be capable of it.

Once the Grand Slams were actually built, typical mission (working from memory) was to have 1 or 2 Lancs with 10 toners, and the rest of the package of raiding Lancaster's would have TallBoys. Targets included bridges, bunkers, U-boat pens, canals, (No. 617 squadron seemed to have a curse with the Dortmund Ems canal), dams (yes, with Tallboys), the Tirpitz, Vengence weapons sites, and anything else that looked like a job for a precision strike with massive firepower.

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

[This message was edited by Cajun76 on Sat February 28 2004 at 02:34 PM.]

p1ngu666
02-28-2004, 07:18 AM
yeah 617 was special ops squad. they blew the crap out of v3 site and others http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
i have a very good book about 617 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
what they did on dday is amazin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Cajun76
02-28-2004, 03:37 PM
Wasn't that where they tossed 'window' out of the a/c at very precise times, headings, courses and formations to confuse German radar? It's been a long while since I read up on them....

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

B101UK
02-29-2004, 10:24 AM
Hi

Spot on Cajun76 apart from "Neither was envisioned or designed to penetrate reinforced concrete bunkers, they just happened to be capable of it"

oh and it was "window" as per your 2nd post

Some useless Tallboy related info http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

854 Tallboys were dropped from June 1944 through April 1945 (excluding tests)
41 Grand Slams were dropped in ww2 (excluding tests)

Tallboy medium (12000lb Tallboy)(12622lb actual mass) is ~252in long (with tail) * ~38in maximum diameter, with a hardened steel case thickness of 4in at the nose (+nose plug penetrater), then tapering to 1.25in near the rear, of witch 41% of the mass is explosive.

Tallboy large (22000lb Grand Slam)(>22850lb actual mass) is ~305in long (with tail) * ~46in maximum diameter, with a hardened steel case thickness of 7.75in at the nose (+nose plug penetrater), then tapering to 1.75in near the rear, of witch 41.6% of the mass is explosive.

The Tallboy medium and large (UK ones) used No. 47 fuses (0 to 60sec + 1 to 60mins delay) or No. 58 Mk1 fuses (instantaneous to 11secs delay) dependent on mission requirements for fuse delays (USA ones use M169-T708 fuses with .025 to 30 seconds delay).

Tallboy small (Scaled 4,000 lb ballistic trial bombs), medium and large are all designed to arrive from 20,000ft at ~765mph or 750mph from 18,000ft in 37 seconds (release speed not known?)

UK made Tallboy bomb casings were made as a 1-piece hardened steel forging #, most USA (A.O. Smith Corp) made ones were made out of a hardened steel forged nose with hardened steel roiled plate side's (3-piece). Due to this under test the UK made one had a greater kinetic yield (~4%).

# UK foundry capacity was limited due to the war production of other things, so on sep30th 1943 after only making 9 casings, Tallboy large Production was halted until July 1944 (Tallboy medium was unaffected)

The Tallboy medium and large are both "Earthquake" (camoflet) effect (displacement of the foundations) bombs.

1st combat use of Tallboy medium was on the night of June 8-9 1944 against Saumur railway tunnel, 19 bombs dropped.
1st combat use of Tallboy large was on March 14, 1945 against Bielefield viaduct, 1 Tallboy large dropped along with a number of Tallboy medium bombs

Average circular error for sand-loaded Tallboy types (bomb range)
10,000ft average circular error was 50.65ft
20,000ft average circular error was 159.4ft
30,000ft average circular error was 185.6ft

"Grand Slam" is the "Bomber Command Executive Codeword" for Tallboy large or "Bomb, HE, Aircraft, MC, 22,000 lb" (to avoid confusion with Tallboy medium "Bomb, HE, Aircraft, MC, 12,000 lb)

Tallboy medium could penetrate concrete to ~10 ft and scab to a depth of ~18 ft (post-war BDA)
Tallboy large could penetrate concrete to ~12 ft and scab to a depth of ~23 ft (post-war BDA)

Post-war USA Tallboy derived bombs like the "Ordnance Corps. Engineers" "Bomb, GP, 42,000-lb, T-12" 1st dropped March 5, 1948 (sand-loaded)
Or "Bomb, SAP, 25,000-lb, T28E4"(Samson)

Nunsuch in the right image you posted, the small bomb is a "Scaled 4klb ballistic trial bomb" (Tallboy small) next to a Grand Slam (Tallboy large)

B101uk