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View Full Version : Stop Giving Shinobis So Many Guarantees



KotoKuraken
10-13-2017, 07:38 PM
His kick is the only bash that interrupts hyperarmor
His grabs are the only ones that interrupt light attacks, which guarantees the sickle rain
His heavy attacks can't be guardbroken unless you happen to guess the exact frame he will be delaying it to
He is the only character that guarantees a heavy off of a kick, so they can just kick > heavy > backflip away without consequence
If you try to guardbreak them after they do a kick, their heavy can't be guardbroken and pulls you into the sickle rain
If you try to attack their kick, they can't be interrupted and it essentially guarantees a sickle rain

Proposals for change
-Allow the kick to be punishable, because right now that's all they do and it's just about unpunishable
--This could be done by allowing a guardbreak on them when they miss with the kick

-Don't give them a free heavy after a kick
--No other character can pull off a heavy and not expect to get punished. They already get sickle rain guaranteed from a ranged guardbreak

-Don't give ranged guardbreak the ability to guardbreak a light attack
--This doesn't make sense that light attacks would be guardbreakable

-Make the kick not interrupt hyperamor, like every other bash/kick

tumenergia
10-13-2017, 08:58 PM
Disagree.. No single character dies as easy as the Shinobi. Just one or two hits and he's out due to his low health.
His heavy might be the slowest in the game and he has the weakest zone attack. The kick is easily dodged and any long ranged attack can easily be GB.

It is very hard to play Shinobi already as it is. He needs a buff instead of nerf.

DoctorMcBatman
10-13-2017, 09:04 PM
Disagree.. No single character dies as easy as the Shinobi. Just one or two hits and he's out due to his low health.
His heavy might be the slowest in the game and he has the weakest zone attack. The kick is easily dodged and any long ranged attack can easily be GB.

It is very hard to play Shinobi already as it is. He needs a buff instead of nerf.

That's a load of rubbish.

Unless it's a revenged Shugoki or Raider with a charged heavy (maybe HL too?), no Hero can die from one hit. If you get hit with two non-revenged charged heavies, that can probably take you out. But other than those very specific scenarios, no hero can take you out in one or two normal hits.

EDIT: Now reading through the rest of your post... you do realize there was a Shinobi buff in the last patch, right?

SenBotsu893
10-13-2017, 09:30 PM
here we go again. people claiming things about shinobi wich are not true. this is like start of season 2 all over again.
sigh... allow me to point out ... well everything you wrote...


His kick is the only bash that interrupts hyperarmor
His grabs are the only ones that interrupt light attacks, which guarantees the sickle rain
wrong not the only one. example shugo headbutt, im pretty sure bamboozle can do it as well.
His heavy attacks can't be guardbroken unless you happen to guess the exact frame he will be delaying it to
hey thats almost like with every other character as well. who would have thought that if you try to gb too late you get hit
He is the only character that guarantees a heavy off of a kick, so they can just kick > heavy > backflip away without consequence
getting an attack after an ub is pretty common nowadays in for honor, gladiotor zone, valk sweep, nobushi kick+viper, the whole centurion movelist, Highlander OF kick, the list goes on
If you try to guardbreak them after they do a kick, their heavy can't be guardbroken and pulls you into the sickle rain
its either a ranged heavy wich is telegraphed and sends shinobi to the ground on parry or a ranged gb wich is easy to cgb and again sends shinobi to the ground
If you try to attack their kick, they can't be interrupted and it essentially guarantees a sickle rain
it is actaully pretty easy to just simply attack into his dodge. becasue for some reason the second dodge has almost no i frames. furthermor the hyper on the kick starts very late so it can be interrupted.

Proposals for change
-Allow the kick to be punishable, because right now that's all they do and it's just about unpunishable
--This could be done by allowing a guardbreak on them when they miss with the kick
gb is also not confirmed after a missed cong sb, pretty sure warlords headbutt is unpunishable too. so why does shinobi need the extra handycapp?

-Don't give them a free heavy after a kick
--No other character can pull off a heavy and not expect to get punished. They already get sickle rain guaranteed from a ranged guardbreak
again what? ranged gb or heavy? you mix those wild togheter. as mentioned many characters have guaranteed attacks after an ub without risking of beeing punished.
also the ranged gb is never guaranteed after a kick. it can be 100% cbg.

-Don't give ranged guardbreak the ability to guardbreak a light attack
--This doesn't make sense that light attacks would be guardbreakable
it doesnt. it follows the rules of every other gb attemt.

-Make the kick not interrupt hyperamor, like every other bash/kick
as already mentioned its not the only ub with the interrupting property

pls do a bit more research before claiming such insane things wich are simply false.

UbiJurassic
10-13-2017, 09:37 PM
Thanks for sharing the suggestions and feedback! Following the buff to Shinobi's health and his dodge kick stamina consumption, the team is keeping watch on how Shinobi has been performing. I'm sure they will appreciate the feedback.

KotoKuraken
10-14-2017, 01:15 AM
I'll spell out your poorly misinformed points

"hey thats almost like with every other character as well. who would have thought that if you try to gb too late you get hit"
Well, unlike other characters, if you try to guardbreak immediately, you don't get the guardbreak. There is literally no time to guardbreak, it's like trying to guardbreak a light attack because his heavies are actually

"getting an attack after an ub is pretty common nowadays in for honor, gladiotor zone, valk sweep, nobushi kick+viper, the whole centurion movelist, Highlander OF kick, the list goes on"
Again, wrong. Shinobi gets a heavy after a bash. Nobushi's is a light attack, Glad's is a light attack, Cent does not get guaranteed heavies on any bash whatsoever

"its either a ranged heavy wich is telegraphed and sends shinobi to the ground on parry or a ranged gb wich is easy to cgb and again sends shinobi to the ground"
Wrong again. Do you even play Shinobi? They can just do a regular heavy after a kick and go into sickle rain

"it is actaully pretty easy to just simply attack into his dodge. becasue for some reason the second dodge has almost no i frames. furthermor the hyper on the kick starts very late so it can be interrupted."
No, no it doesn't. Guardbreak sometimes works when they are mid dodge, yes, but when the kick starts flaming, there is no interrupting it. Attacking, no that never works

"gb is also not confirmed after a missed cong sb, pretty sure warlords headbutt is unpunishable too. so why does shinobi need the extra handycapp? "
That's actually a good point, Conq and Warlord do need to have a guaranteed guardbreak punish after his bash, because even Cent gets a guardbreak on him after a dodged punch


"again what? ranged gb or heavy? you mix those wild togheter. as mentioned many characters have guaranteed attacks after an ub without risking of beeing punished.
also the ranged gb is never guaranteed after a kick. it can be 100% cbg."
This is yet another reason why I believe you have never played Shinobi before. If you get a successful ranged guardbreak off, your heavy is [I]guaranteed/I] and you go straight into sickle rain. Because this ranged guardbreak can be guaranteed while an opponent attacks with lights or heavies, the sickle rain is also guaranteed

again what? ranged gb or heavy? you mix those wild togheter. as mentioned many characters have guaranteed attacks after an ub without risking of beeing punished.
also the ranged gb is never guaranteed after a kick. it can be 100% cbg.
However, if the opponent used an attack and goes for another attack as you do a backflip into the ranged guardbreak, it guarantees the ranged guardbreak into the guaranteed sickle rain

"it doesnt. it follows the rules of every other gb attemt."
Oh how I wish that were true, but playing Shugo, Nobushi, and Cent against a Shinobi proved otherwise

Waxfacts
10-14-2017, 03:24 AM
Im not to sure if shinobi is better than most of the meta picks i see. I would argue he has more potential, but requires a lot more work. You have very little room for error with shinobi and one dash could mean life or death for you. I would never say hes overpowered. Especially since hes on the fine line of being useless right now, any nerf in any area could make him pretty much terrible. Id say hes in a kinda "comfortable" region. Honestly he can be a little below average without sufficient knowledge of him especially in this time where you see a lot of tanky characters. Honestly i think a character who is kinda bad without a lot of knowledge but above average with that knowledge is pretty fun. I like it like that. I think shinobi's flaws and strengths are very easy to see which can make him powerful or weak depending on what you can adapt to.