PDA

View Full Version : Zone Attack



Rickster_
10-11-2017, 08:04 PM
can you guys fix or make changes on that because its stupid how some characters can cancel their zone while other can't. The peace keeper shouldn't be able to cancel it if the berserker can't cancel his. the start up is quick and with the bleed applied to it you can cheese people with it if you cancel spam it same with nobushi. If she can cancel her zone into that stupid side dash attack then the Centurion should be able to cancel his useless zone attack which is slow and can always be parried all they have to do is back up and let you swing at nothing or get behind you and you can't do anything because you can't stop your zone. Not even the shinobi can cancel his zone you could block his attack until the end where you can parry him then two shot him.

Its either they all can cancel or they can't

Jarl.Felix
10-11-2017, 08:15 PM
Devs don't know how to work it around.

Alustar.
10-11-2017, 08:58 PM
While i agree on the Shinobi being able to cancel his zone, I don't really see the point in all heroes being able to, as the ones that can typically have two or more attacks in that. The obvious exception being berserker, but if the first hit connects you can't block the following hits.
A Peacekeeper and nobushi can't link more than 2-3 without going stamina burnt. Hell even Highlander burns a lot when canceling his zone.
They do this so that people aren't stuck in a long tedious animation that could lead to an almost guaranteed parry.

Charmzzz
10-12-2017, 08:51 AM
The peace keeper shouldn't be able to cancel it if the berserker can't cancel his. the start up is quick and with the bleed applied to it you can cheese people with it if you cancel spam it same with nobushi.

There is no bleed in PK's (or any other) Zone Attack. It only applies bleed when the feat "Sharpen Blade" is active, but this feat is available to alot of characters.
As alustar said, Berserker's Zone is not blockable / parryable if the first one connects which is fine imo. Centurion should use his Zone only to clear minions or when the enemy is stunned (wall stagger, on ground, Raider knee, Demon Embrace, etc.).

The speed of PK Zone and the Nobushi having the 0 recovery frame "treat" are a different thing. Imo they should slower the PK Zone and 2nd Light to 500ms and give her something else (fix the Bug that PK cannot soft-feint Heavy Attacks in Chains anymore and make her Heavy-cancel into Light an unblockable Attack). The Nobushi recovery skipping via Dodge should be completely removed. No other character can do this and I am not sure if it is intended.

DoctorMcBatman
10-12-2017, 02:54 PM
There is no bleed in PK's (or any other) Zone Attack. It only applies bleed when the feat "Sharpen Blade" is active, but this feat is available to alot of characters.
As alustar said, Berserker's Zone is not blockable / parryable if the first one connects which is fine imo. Centurion should use his Zone only to clear minions or when the enemy is stunned (wall stagger, on ground, Raider knee, Demon Embrace, etc.).

The speed of PK Zone and the Nobushi having the 0 recovery frame "treat" are a different thing. Imo they should slower the PK Zone and 2nd Light to 500ms and give her something else (fix the Bug that PK cannot soft-feint Heavy Attacks in Chains anymore and make her Heavy-cancel into Light an unblockable Attack). The Nobushi recovery skipping via Dodge should be completely removed. No other character can do this and I am not sure if it is intended.

As a PK main, I'd be on board with this. I'd like dodge attack damage to return to pre-nerf levels, but if PK is able to feint heavy in chains and heavy-cancel an unblockable light, that would be good enough.

Charmzzz
10-12-2017, 03:04 PM
As a PK main, I'd be on board with this. I'd like dodge attack damage to return to pre-nerf levels, but if PK is able to feint heavy in chains and heavy-cancel an unblockable light, that would be good enough.

Pre-Nerf dodge heavy was hitting like a truck, I think it was around 40 damage with the bleed followup. That was way too much damage for an easy to pull off move and it encouraged a complete passive playstyle -> wait until opponent attacks -> dodge attack for heavy damage.

PK had the ability to soft-feint any heavy attack in chains into a GB or cancel into Light stab, this ability is gone since the removal of timesnap. I opened a Bug with Ubi support and they confirmed it, my thread is here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1721814-Peacekeeper-Soft-Feint-in-chained-Attacks-gone-since-timesnap-removal

Never heard anyone talking about it on Den or somewhere else though. I guess they ignore it and it will stay like this. So leave me my 400ms (or now after timesnap is gone ~300ms) Attack, it is all I have left. :p

RatedChaotic
10-12-2017, 03:09 PM
Doesnt it say in Nobushis kit that her dodge ability resets or cancels her recovery time? I think it does.

Charmzzz
10-12-2017, 03:29 PM
Doesnt it say in Nobushis kit that her dodge ability resets or cancels her recovery time? I think it does.

Does it? Gonna look it up later, this is what I found:

Way of the Shark - Does extra Damage when hitting someone already affected by Bleed.
Hidden Stance - The Startup has a Dodge property. Basic Attacks Startup can be cancelled into Hidden Stance. Hidden Stance can be followed by Attacks, Kick or Dodge.
Cancel Attack Recovery - Attacks can be followed up by Hidden Stance, Viper's Retreat or Kick. Kick can be followed up by Hidden Stance or Cobra Strike.
Poke the Nest - Third chained Light Attack is guaranteed if second one hits.
Sidewinder Form - Hit at the opposite of the direction of the Dodge. Side Slashes can be followed up by Hidden Stance, Viper's Retreat, Kick or Dodge.
Zone Attack - Cancel Zone Attack after the first Attack with B (XB1), E key (PC) and the circle (PS4) by default.

RatedChaotic
10-12-2017, 03:56 PM
Does it? Gonna look it up later, this is what I found:

Way of the Shark - Does extra Damage when hitting someone already affected by Bleed.
Hidden Stance - The Startup has a Dodge property. Basic Attacks Startup can be cancelled into Hidden Stance. Hidden Stance can be followed by Attacks, Kick or Dodge.
Cancel Attack Recovery - Attacks can be followed up by Hidden Stance, Viper's Retreat or Kick. Kick can be followed up by Hidden Stance or Cobra Strike.
Poke the Nest - Third chained Light Attack is guaranteed if second one hits.
Sidewinder Form - Hit at the opposite of the direction of the Dodge. Side Slashes can be followed up by Hidden Stance, Viper's Retreat, Kick or Dodge.
Zone Attack - Cancel Zone Attack after the first Attack with B (XB1), E key (PC) and the circle (PS4) by default.

In the Advanced video(half way thru) it says you can cancel the recovery of your attacks with hidden stance. Were you meaning regular dodge or the hidden stance dodge?

Charmzzz
10-13-2017, 10:53 AM
In the Advanced video(half way thru) it says you can cancel the recovery of your attacks with hidden stance. Were you meaning regular dodge or the hidden stance dodge?

I didn't mean Hidden Stance. I mean the 0 frame recovery of the Nobu who dodges or dodge Attacks after an Attack. See here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1689479-Here-s-why-Nobushi-is-busted-in-team-modes?highlight=sb.alernakin

Did you never face a Nobushi who does this: Zone - cancel 2. hit - instant Sidewinder / Cobra Strike spam with 0 recovery frames where you have a chance to attack. I meet alot of these, the only thing you can do is defend and try to parry. They can endlessly chain their attacks like a Berserker.

RatedChaotic
10-13-2017, 11:17 AM
Oh ya I've ran into those....Kinda threw me off a bit since hidden stance has that dodge property. But ya I understand what you mean now. I'm on board with ya. Good info Charmz..I dont main her but play her sometimes. Info is always good to have. I feel like a tennis spectator sometimes playing vs those.

Morpheus256
10-13-2017, 03:12 PM
Did you never face a Nobushi who does this: Zone - cancel 2. hit - instant Sidewinder / Cobra Strike spam with 0 recovery frames where you have a chance to attack. I meet alot of these, the only thing you can do is defend and try to parry. They can endlessly chain their attacks like a Berserker.

Canceling recovery frames with dash attacks looks flashy and may catch someone who is unaware of that possibility but it's nothing but parry bait against good players. You don't get a guaranteed attack after blocking her zone anyway so why would you start an attack immediately after blocking it?

It's an unique feature that can catch people by surprise but it's quite pointless against anyone who knows that she can do that.

Charmzzz
10-13-2017, 03:19 PM
Canceling recovery frames with dash attacks looks flashy and may catch someone who is unaware of that possibility but it's nothing but parry bait against good players. You don't get a guaranteed attack after blocking her zone anyway so why would you start an attack immediately after blocking it?

It's an unique feature that can catch people by surprise but it's quite pointless against anyone who knows that she can do that.

How is a character not in favor if he has a move that cancels out any recovery phase of an attack? Can you explain this to me a little bit deeper please? What I am experiencing is Nobushi's chaining dodge attacks so fast that they are practically invincible when fighting in a minion wave because of the wide arc and no delay between these moves. Also in group fights, with Revenge on the Nobu, it is an insane AOE tool that is recommended in any Dominion team. Just wait for Dominion Ranked in S4 and you will see it.

I know it is not a big deal in 1on1, but it is definitely a superb move in any group fight.

Morpheus256
10-13-2017, 03:59 PM
How is a character not in favor if he has a move that cancels out any recovery phase of an attack? Can you explain this to me a little bit deeper please? What I am experiencing is Nobushi's chaining dodge attacks so fast that they are practically invincible when fighting in a minion wave because of the wide arc and no delay between these moves. Also in group fights, with Revenge on the Nobu, it is an insane AOE tool that is recommended in any Dominion team. Just wait for Dominion Ranked in S4 and you will see it.

I know it is not a big deal in 1on1, but it is definitely a superb move in any group fight.

TBH I didn't even think of XvsX situations but even in group fights Nobushi has to be locked onto an opponent who can parry her moves. I know Dominion players are not necessarily good duelists but her dash attacks are easy parries. Her zone though, that is pretty strong in group fights.