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View Full Version : Nobushi Can't Be Punished After Being Parried. This is unacceptable.



Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 08:06 AM
I mentioned this before a while back, but after hearing people's opinion about it I dismissed it and thought it was just circumstantial. However, after coming across it again several times just recently, I've determined that, yes, Nobushi is just un-punishable after being being parried. This one REALLY upsets me, when characters are for some reason just exempt from core mechanics of a game.

Observe:

https://youtu.be/J-JuZyGzL8g
I parry her twice. First time I couldn't land a light attack because she was too far away. Second time I landed a light attack but she blocked it because she recovered too fast.

Another:

https://youtu.be/uHpkFfkRFBQ
Here's one where my teammate, who is playing a much faster character than I was, parried her twice and still couldn't do anything to her.

And finally:

https://youtu.be/faiaXbvgnF0
Here I parry her once again, but instead I went for a guard break, even though I knew that you can't guard break a Nobushi after you parry them because they're just too far away... but I thought this time I could land one because the environment we were fighting in forced us to be within very close quarters with each other. However, as you can see, my guard break was still unsuccessful.

Therefore, I have concluded that she was just designed to be un-punishable after a parry, AT LEAST FOR SOME CHARACTERS... which is just downright preposterous. Please fix this, Ubisoft. And don't even get me started on how a Shinobi can back flip away after missing a kick...

Malyngo
10-10-2017, 08:09 AM
Is this really so much of an issue? As it is now, at least to me, it seems that she was designed with this in mind. If the ability to GB her is added, they will most certainly give her something else instead so she isn't suddenly total crap.

Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 08:11 AM
Is this really so much of an issue? As it is now, at least to me, it seems that she was designed with this in mind. If the ability to GB her is added, they will most certainly give her something else instead so she isn't suddenly total crap.

Did you not see that regular light attacks don't work either? Watch the videos.

Charmzzz
10-10-2017, 08:52 AM
1. Nobushi is not the only one where parrying a HEAVY wont give a free GB if you are not standing toe to toe: Lawbringer, Valkyrie, Shugoki, Kensei (all long range weapon wielding characters...)
2. If you parry a HEAVY on those characters and you stand really close or she is in front of an obstacle when being parried - you will get your guaranteed GB
3. If you parry a LIGHT on those characters - you will get your guaranteed GB

This is known since release. All these characters with long range weapons have pretty slow attacks to compensate, and you have to get close to them if you want to punish their heavy attacks. For me it's fine because I learned when and who to GB after any parry and where I use something else. You play alot of Highlander, should be easy for you to Counterstrike the slow Nobu attacks instead of parrying them, this will give you guaranteed damage and the gap will be closed.

SoulEavens
10-10-2017, 10:05 AM
Nobushi can be a bit tricky to Deal with, because of her Range, but there is also a simple way to deal with her which i call "The Walk of Doom".
Most Nobushis just Spamm lights at you, you just need to March at her and Block her Spam, most Nobushis will immideatly Dodge away once youre close, that is where you can get a free GB. If you can parry her lights while doing that: Well like Charmazz said free GB for you. Watch out for hidden stance because they will most likely pull out their Zone now. If they Kick you can easily punish if if you dodge. Fights against Nobushi are very polar: Either you manage to get past her range, and you squish or, or she can keep you at Distance and stab you to death. Don't go at it too agressiv, Nobushis can really punish slower Characters with their quick lights.

Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 10:36 AM
1. Nobushi is not the only one where parrying a HEAVY wont give a free GB if you are not standing toe to toe: Lawbringer, Valkyrie, Shugoki, Kensei (all long range weapon wielding characters...)
2. If you parry a HEAVY on those characters and you stand really close or she is in front of an obstacle when being parried - you will get your guaranteed GB
3. If you parry a LIGHT on those characters - you will get your guaranteed GB

This is known since release. All these characters with long range weapons have pretty slow attacks to compensate, and you have to get close to them if you want to punish their heavy attacks. For me it's fine because I learned when and who to GB after any parry and where I use something else. You play alot of Highlander, should be easy for you to Counterstrike the slow Nobu attacks instead of parrying them, this will give you guaranteed damage and the gap will be closed.

1. Again, I am not just talking about getting free guard breaks in as my first video clearly shows that I couldn't land both of my light attacks after parrying her twice... and I don't know why you're only bringing up "HEAVY" attacks as the first attack I parried was a LIGHT attack and I still couldn't do anything to her. Watch the first video again.
2. Did you not see how close we were in the third video? Did you not read my description under the third video? Again, the narrow ledges of the terrain we were fighting on forced us to be very close to each other, and I couldn't land a guard break after parrying her.
3. Look how far away she was after I parried her LIGHT attack in the first video, if my light attack couldn't even reach her after parrying her light attack, there was no way I was going to be able to land a free guard break.

All the points and solutions you stated were proven wrong and did not work in the videos which shows that there is some kind of inconsistency with the character and is why I think something is broken and therefore needs to be fixed, because I don't think the developers intended the Nobushi to be completely parry proof...

By the way, to further prove that your third statement is incorrect, watch this video:

https://youtu.be/pWEUjky_xr0
Like you said, I parried her LIGHT attack... but still no free guard break.

Charmzzz
10-10-2017, 10:54 AM
Aha, ok, "all my points and solutions were proven wrong". Can only laugh. What about Counterstrike? Will net you a 100% hit on every attempt... But hey, just focus on something else to "prove" you right, right?

1. Highlander has supershort range on his Lights. And where it was stated that a Light is guaranteed after any GB? Never heard about that. After the Light you parried on Nobu you did not GB, that one should be guaranteed. That is what I wanted to say. You just chose the wrong followup.
2. 3rd Video: could have been a Sidewinder and not Cobra Strike, so you would have parried a heavy attack which does not guarantee the GB. And when the Nobu goes for the side dash attack you are NOT toe to toe with her at all.
3. See 1.

Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 11:00 AM
Aha, ok, "all my points and solutions were proven wrong". Can only laugh. What about Counterstrike? Will net you a 100% hit on every attempt... But hey, just focus on something else to "prove" you right, right?

1. Highlander has supershort range on his Lights. And where it was stated that a Light is guaranteed after any GB? Never heard about that. After the Light you parried on Nobu you did not GB, that one should be guaranteed. That is what I wanted to say. You just chose the wrong followup.
2. 3rd Video: could have been a Sidewinder and not Cobra Strike, so you would have parried a heavy attack which does not guarantee the GB. And when the Nobu goes for the side dash attack you are NOT toe to toe with her at all.
3. See 1.

1. I am not talking about counter strike, I am talking about PARRYING a Nobushi. What if you're playing a character who doesn't have counter strike?
2. Okay, fair enough.
3.

https://youtu.be/pWEUjky_xr0
Like you said, I parried her LIGHT attack... but still no free guard break. So either way, you can't punish a Nobushi after parrying even a light attack.

So you can drop your sarcastic attitude and hold your laugh, I am not trying to pick a fight brother, I'm trying to help both of us out here, because something ain't working the way it's supposed to.

Tyler-Durdin
10-10-2017, 11:32 AM
I think from watching all the videos that distance is your problem and your blowing it way out of proportion.
Do you really expect a free GB at that range?
You simply are not close enough to get your free GB, practice more close them gaps this will help you land those light attacks you seem to think impossible as well.
I regularly play nobushi against bots and they punish me all the time.
Charmzzz knows his stuff I wouldn't discount his words as easy as you have done.

Charmzzz
10-10-2017, 11:51 AM
1. If you are not playing something with Counterstrike: you play an Assassin? Deflect for a guaranteed hit / GB. Other Characters have options after parrying like Parry Counter (Cent), Light Riposte or Impaling Riposte (LB), etc. For Highlander it would be the Counterstrike. Highlander is designed to use it since he has low range on all his moves except Celtic Curse. You have to adapt your playstyle to your opponent, like I do not use Deflect on opponents who have alot of Hyperarmor moves because I will get punished for it.
2. Ok
3. Yeah, looks like you are right. But you were far away again. I don't know if it is Highlander specific, because when I play PK I can definitely get a free GB after parrying Nobu.

SenBotsu893
10-10-2017, 01:40 PM
so i noticed you play Highlander.

funny because Highlander has the same advantage as nobushi in regards to parry punish.

some of Highlanders attacks reach far enough that a parry will have you in safe distance from a gb.

soooooo im not sure if you really want to go through with this

Anarnam
10-10-2017, 01:59 PM
When you play against nobushi, you need to stand as close to her as possible if you want to GB her after light-attack parry (dodge attack also counts as light).
Not sure if it works but try to grab her after you parry her light or kick->feint->grab as gapcloser before she recovers.

Morpheus256
10-10-2017, 02:12 PM
Counter strike her heavies and when you go for a light parry keep the button pressed. You go straight into offensive stance after the parry animation and get a free heavy. How about learning your character before calling for nerfs...

Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 04:13 PM
I think from watching all the videos that distance is your problem and your blowing it way out of proportion.
Do you really expect a free GB at that range?
You simply are not close enough to get your free GB, practice more close them gaps this will help you land those light attacks you seem to think impossible as well.
I regularly play nobushi against bots and they punish me all the time.
Charmzzz knows his stuff I wouldn't discount his words as easy as you have done.

Once again, I AM NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT GETTING A FREE GUARD BREAK IN, if you watched the first video, (and as of recently the 4th) regular attacks don't work either even after parrying a light attack. Watch the videos again, especially the 4th, and read the rest of mine and Charmzzz's conversation, things haven't been working out the way he or I have been expecting them to. Trust me, I haven't discounted some of the things he's said without reason.

Baturai
10-10-2017, 04:28 PM
1. that fat bastard has a range weapon too.
2. Have you ever tried to GB with Nobushi From that Range ?

Arekonator
10-10-2017, 04:38 PM
3. Yeah, looks like you are right. But you were far away again. I don't know if it is Highlander specific, because when I play PK I can definitely get a free GB after parrying Nobu.Pretty sure it is highlander specific issue people brought up before, that is, he got trouble getting guardbreaks after parry where other characters dont.

Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 04:38 PM
1. If you are not playing something with Counterstrike: you play an Assassin? Deflect for a guaranteed hit / GB. Other Characters have options after parrying like Parry Counter (Cent), Light Riposte or Impaling Riposte (LB), etc. For Highlander it would be the Counterstrike. Highlander is designed to use it since he has low range on all his moves except Celtic Curse. You have to adapt your playstyle to your opponent, like I do not use Deflect on opponents who have alot of Hyperarmor moves because I will get punished for it.
2. Ok
3. Yeah, looks like you are right. But you were far away again. I don't know if it is Highlander specific, because when I play PK I can definitely get a free GB after parrying Nobu.

1. I'm afraid the only other character I play is the Warden (rep 30) and I have the same issue here because other than his crushing counter strike, he has nothing else to punish opponents for attacking relentlessly. (And Nobushi is too quick/agile for me to dodge an attack and then follow up shoulder bash) So maybe it's because for the longest time I've been playing the one character on the entire roster apparently who doesn't have anything to punish a Nobushi when parrying doesn't work... which in that case I'll accept then.
2. Okie doke.
3. I assure you I was staying as close as I possibly could, so maybe it IS Highlander specific... if it is, then that sucks. If it isn't, then we have a character who is multi-character-specific in regards to be dealt with. I'm okay with that, however that leads into another thing that I haven't quite been able to get behind on since this game's launch: not being able to see which characters your opponent is picking in the character select menu so you can counter-pick, which I would also be okay with if you were at least able to switch characters during a mach once you have seen the characters that your opponent(s) has picked. But alas, that is not a thing in this game either.

Whatever the case, it looks like we have met eye to eye. I just hope Ubisoft sees everything that we have talked about so IF an action is required, they take it.

Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 04:43 PM
so i noticed you play Highlander.

funny because Highlander has the same advantage as nobushi in regards to parry punish.

some of Highlanders attacks reach far enough that a parry will have you in safe distance from a gb.

soooooo im not sure if you really want to go through with this

Never experienced any of that. Do you have any videos to further back that up? And once again, like I've had to tell everyone else on this post, I AM NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT GETTING A GUARD BREAK IN, if you watched the videos I couldn't land any regular attacks either.

Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 04:47 PM
When you play against nobushi, you need to stand as close to her as possible if you want to GB her after light-attack parry (dodge attack also counts as light).
Not sure if it works but try to grab her after you parry her light or kick->feint->grab as gapcloser before she recovers.

Believe me my friend, I stay as close as I possible can when dealing with Nobushis, and I still can't land guard breaks or even a light attack after parrying her light attacks. The 4th video shows that. However, it's been most likely concluded earlier on this forum that it's probably a Highlander specific problem, which needs to be fixed if that's the case.

Lucifist666
10-10-2017, 04:50 PM
If you parry her light you get a free heavy. It's simple

Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 04:56 PM
Counter strike her heavies and when you go for a light parry keep the button pressed. You go straight into offensive stance after the parry animation and get a free heavy. How about learning your character before calling for nerfs...

Charmzzz and I have been over this already, so I'm not going to repeat our entire conversation to you, but I will say this again: I am not talking about counter striking, I am talking about PARRYING a Nobushi. What if you're playing a character who doesn't have counter strike like the Warden, (other than his crushing counter strike but that only works against attacks coming from the top) what then? As for getting a free heavy with an offensive form attack after parrying a Nobushi... don't you think I've tried that? Watch the 1st and 4th video again, if I couldn't land a light attack or a guard break after parrying even her light attack, what makes you think the incredibly slow and televised offensive form attack will?

Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 05:00 PM
If you parry her light you get a free heavy. It's simple

You obviously have not been paying attention.

SenBotsu893
10-10-2017, 05:06 PM
Never experienced any of that. Do you have any videos to further back that up? And once again, like I've had to tell everyone else on this post, I AM NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT GETTING A GUARD BREAK IN, if you watched the videos I couldn't land any regular attacks either.

yes i naturally recorded all of my 600 hours of gameplay.

but in all seriousnes. Highlander, Kensei, Nobushi, and many other Polearm wielding heroes have some attacks that if parried from a distance keep you in a safe distance.

I play Highlander myself and i often got a free gb after an enemy parried one of my heavys and missed his gb follow up.

mind you it also depends on the enemy you are facing. for example an orochi cant gb a kenseis side heavy parry but can follow up with the top light regardless.

there are many different matchup possibilities that will lead to many different outcomes after a parry.

Morpheus256
10-10-2017, 05:23 PM
Charmzzz and I have been over this already, so I'm not going to repeat our entire conversation to you, but I will say this again: I am not talking about counter striking, I am talking about PARRYING a Nobushi. What if you're playing a character who doesn't have counter strike like the Warden, (other than his crushing counter strike but that only works against attacks coming from the top) what then? As for getting a free heavy with an offensive form attack after parrying a Nobushi... don't you think I've tried that? Watch the 1st and 4th video again, if I couldn't land a light attack or a guard break after parrying even her light attack, what makes you think the incredibly slow and televised offensive form attack will?

Different heroes have different tools. Deal with it. All heroes get something after parrying Nobushi, there's no exception. Parrying heavies is the easiest thing to do and shouldn't guarantee a GB anyway.

The "incredibly slow" unblockable heavy will hit because it has more range than your lights and GBs. Seriously, it takes one minute in duel training to figure that out for yourself.

Tyler-Durdin
10-10-2017, 08:04 PM
Trust me. Its your distance away from nobushi that is YOUR problem.
If you read my post correctly I did mention light attacks as well.
Your getting your goat up over what you say is broken mechanics when your distance prevents you from landing any kind of attack perhaps you should watch your own videos again look at the distance between yourself and the nobushi even a blind man can tell your not going to land anything at that range.
There is no issue with nobushi its an issue with your battle position. Once again, practice and close them gaps or continue to believe your correct, either way I'm afraid your wrong on this occasion.
Its not below anyones skill level to practice against characters who give you a hard time, I guarantee if you did some practice games you will find that optimal distance to land what ever after a parry with the highlander.
But also note that when playing against other players that they will react after parry recovery and move accordingly and will not just stand around and take a hit id assume that even you do this when getting parried by others.

Kliftheone
10-10-2017, 10:18 PM
So here is what you can do:

Heavy parry punish:
1. depends on your range from the Nobu when you parry, if your up close/near a wall so that your character is with in the normal GB range you will get that.
2. Some characters can use Zone attacks or other fast attacks with good tracking.

Light parry punish:
1. Top heavy for characters with enugh range.
2. Dash + GB (or GB if you are close enugh)

Hope this helps you against Nobu.

ChampionRuby50g
10-10-2017, 11:16 PM
Mighty, if you are playing as a Warden and parry a Nobushi light, you can get a free top heavy in regardless of the the range. I struggled too with these until someone told me and when I was parrying Nobushi lights I'd miss a lot too. But as far as I can remember, if you parry her light as a Warden, top heavy will connect.

Mighty_Mackerel
10-11-2017, 12:11 AM
So here is what you can do:

Heavy parry punish:
1. depends on your range from the Nobu when you parry, if your up close/near a wall so that your character is with in the normal GB range you will get that.
2. Some characters can use Zone attacks or other fast attacks with good tracking.

Light parry punish:
1. Top heavy for characters with enugh range.
2. Dash + GB (or GB if you are close enugh)

Hope this helps you against Nobu.

Bingo, thank you!

Mighty_Mackerel
10-11-2017, 12:12 AM
Mighty, if you are playing as a Warden and parry a Nobushi light, you can get a free top heavy in regardless of the the range. I struggled too with these until someone told me and when I was parrying Nobushi lights I'd miss a lot too. But as far as I can remember, if you parry her light as a Warden, top heavy will connect.

And thank you too!

Mighty_Mackerel
10-11-2017, 12:20 AM
Trust me. Its your distance away from nobushi that is YOUR problem.
If you read my post correctly I did mention light attacks as well.
Your getting your goat up over what you say is broken mechanics when your distance prevents you from landing any kind of attack perhaps you should watch your own videos again look at the distance between yourself and the nobushi even a blind man can tell your not going to land anything at that range.
There is no issue with nobushi its an issue with your battle position. Once again, practice and close them gaps or continue to believe your correct, either way I'm afraid your wrong on this occasion.
Its not below anyones skill level to practice against characters who give you a hard time, I guarantee if you did some practice games you will find that optimal distance to land what ever after a parry with the highlander.
But also note that when playing against other players that they will react after parry recovery and move accordingly and will not just stand around and take a hit id assume that even you do this when getting parried by others.

Alright, I'll admit I did miss your comment about the light attacks. However, I went into practice mode like you said, and kept as close to the Nobushi as the game would possibly let me, I kept moving forward no matter what, and what I found is that we were all wrong to some degree. (By the way I did this with a Warden who is much faster and also because I main him)

Charmzzz said if you parry her light attack you can get a free guard break, this shows that to be incorrect even though I was right up in her face:

https://youtu.be/S-6QVE-FiVA

You said if I'm close enough I can land a light attack, but this shows that I still couldn't land a light attack even after parrying her light attack... however I found that the Warden's top light will connect, so you were right in that regard:

https://youtu.be/4c4KKtw0cDo

Other than those things, okay, yes... for the most part I was wrong. It seems like I just simply misunderstood just how EXACTLY parrying works in this game. Kliftheone and ChampionRuby5og mostly helped in solving that, so props to them. I just hate the fact that there are apparently so many specifics you need to know with this game you practically have to do a research project... I ain't in school I just want to frickin' play. Anyway, thanks for your input, I apologize for any grief I've caused you.

Mighty_Mackerel
10-11-2017, 12:25 AM
To everyone else who has commented in this post and to those who were going to post in the future, the issue in this thread has been solved. Thanks for all your input and I apologize for any grief I might've caused any of you... I was just so triggered at failing to punish the Nobushi so many damn times that I got carried away and legitimately thought she was just mechanically broken. But thanks to a couple people I understand the things I have to do now.

Kliftheone
10-11-2017, 01:52 AM
To everyone else who has commented in this post and to those who were going to post in the future, the issue in this thread has been solved. Thanks for all your input and I apologize for any grief I might've caused any of you... I was just so triggered at failing to punish the Nobushi so many damn times that I got carried away and legitimately thought she was just mechanically broken. But thanks to a couple people I understand the things I have to do now.


I`m glad this helped you out, and I hope you can destroy some more Nobus in the future. Just a note so you don`t get triggered by it nobu is a hard character to counter due to it`s range and ability to cancel it`s recovery frames in to a dodge or a dash attack, so be warry and focus on blocking and parrying them.

I read your previous comment, and I really like that there is so many different ways and mechanincs of the game. Makes for a higher skill cap with out it being 100% on who does the best turtel game. However, I do not know it all and constantly learn new things. There has not ever been a game that can get me as triggered as For Honor can, but, I do love it! Good luck mate!

Tyler-Durdin
10-11-2017, 02:15 AM
We have all been there mate no worries now you know how to deal with nobushi's I hope you don't punish me too hard if we ever meet on the field of battle. :)

Mighty_Mackerel
10-11-2017, 04:41 AM
We have all been there mate no worries now you know how to deal with nobushi's I hope you don't punish me too hard if we ever meet on the field of battle. :)

Same to you, brother, peace! :D

Mighty_Mackerel
10-11-2017, 04:42 AM
I`m glad this helped you out, and I hope you can destroy some more Nobus in the future. Just a note so you don`t get triggered by it nobu is a hard character to counter due to it`s range and ability to cancel it`s recovery frames in to a dodge or a dash attack, so be warry and focus on blocking and parrying them.

I read your previous comment, and I really like that there is so many different ways and mechanincs of the game. Makes for a higher skill cap with out it being 100% on who does the best turtel game. However, I do not know it all and constantly learn new things. There has not ever been a game that can get me as triggered as For Honor can, but, I do love it! Good luck mate!

Got it, good points my friend! Thanks so much again!