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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:46 PM
RBJ will be in here shortly to dump his latest well articulated spewing of crap, but let me take a stab at why RBJ is wrong about his trackIR hypothesis, which essentially says that it doesn't scroll smoothly enough compared to a mouse.

First of all, quickly turn your head and focus on an object that's straight out from your shoulder. Are you focused on that object from the moment you start turning your head from this screen? No, I didn't think so. HEY! That's how trackIR works too! Even if your screen is in perfect focus, it doesn't mean your eyes will be until you have something to focus on.

Think now of a fighter pilot looking at his low 8-o-clock very quickly as someone says "8-o-clock low". It takes you a second to look over there, during which your eyes are not focused on anything as you scan for the the bandit.

Now you've said that you want to see FB tracks that show you how smooth it is. If you play back a track in 1600x1200 resolution and your machine is a Pentium 3 800mhz, will you see it as smoothly as I do? No, you won't.

Also, the smoothness of the track playback feature is directly limited to the technology that records it. Given the track recorder records the positions of many things and actions during the track, then restiches it together as a series of things you can see (as opposed to actually filming the visuals), what makes you think you'd EVER get the same thing out of the track recorder as you put in.

Is a trackIR as smooth as a mouse? Well it depends on many things:
-how smooth is your mouse?
-how fast is your mouse accelleration in FB?
-how smooth is your hand?
-how close is the trackIR?
-how many dots are you using (and therefore how much less input loss are you preventing)
-how sensitive is your trackIR configured?
-how about deadzone?

I use a deadzone, which purposely moves faster when my head is at certain points, and slower at others (like the middle).

Overall, you've said that you want to see a track that proves that trackIR is smooth, but I question whether smoothness even matters (given how we switch our focus in real life isn't smooth), and lastly, I'm not sure that tracks can 100% accurately depict smoothness anyways.

What say ye?





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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:46 PM
RBJ will be in here shortly to dump his latest well articulated spewing of crap, but let me take a stab at why RBJ is wrong about his trackIR hypothesis, which essentially says that it doesn't scroll smoothly enough compared to a mouse.

First of all, quickly turn your head and focus on an object that's straight out from your shoulder. Are you focused on that object from the moment you start turning your head from this screen? No, I didn't think so. HEY! That's how trackIR works too! Even if your screen is in perfect focus, it doesn't mean your eyes will be until you have something to focus on.

Think now of a fighter pilot looking at his low 8-o-clock very quickly as someone says "8-o-clock low". It takes you a second to look over there, during which your eyes are not focused on anything as you scan for the the bandit.

Now you've said that you want to see FB tracks that show you how smooth it is. If you play back a track in 1600x1200 resolution and your machine is a Pentium 3 800mhz, will you see it as smoothly as I do? No, you won't.

Also, the smoothness of the track playback feature is directly limited to the technology that records it. Given the track recorder records the positions of many things and actions during the track, then restiches it together as a series of things you can see (as opposed to actually filming the visuals), what makes you think you'd EVER get the same thing out of the track recorder as you put in.

Is a trackIR as smooth as a mouse? Well it depends on many things:
-how smooth is your mouse?
-how fast is your mouse accelleration in FB?
-how smooth is your hand?
-how close is the trackIR?
-how many dots are you using (and therefore how much less input loss are you preventing)
-how sensitive is your trackIR configured?
-how about deadzone?

I use a deadzone, which purposely moves faster when my head is at certain points, and slower at others (like the middle).

Overall, you've said that you want to see a track that proves that trackIR is smooth, but I question whether smoothness even matters (given how we switch our focus in real life isn't smooth), and lastly, I'm not sure that tracks can 100% accurately depict smoothness anyways.

What say ye?





<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:49 PM
I didn't take the time to read your post, but if you say it's smooth then post a track where it is obvious it is smooth and you aren't just cheating and using a mouse.

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Message Edited on 06/19/0303:52PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:50 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:

- I didn't take the time to read your post, but


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif





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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:51 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I didn't take the time to read your post,


Obviously.



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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:52 PM
Ok I read your smoothness detection argument but it's not true. I can tell using a tack the difference between smoothness between my mouse and my ministick-as-a-mouse on the CH Pro throttle (it's too slow refreshing for mousing, and probably just like track IR).

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:55 PM
It just boils down to rigid opposition to forward thinking.

Pay no mind to the brow. In a few years, we'll all be on another forum, and RBJ will be telling newbies that they can't be serious ACES untill they invest in TrackIR and stop using 3 meager displays when 5 are far superior.



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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:55 PM
To translate my thoughts into something simple for you to counter with a ridiculous claim, let me put this forth:

"The smoothness of trackIR is irrelevent because in real life you don't pan with a mouse, so there's no point comparing to it".

Think of flying a large Boeing. Would you pan your head smoothly to find the flaps lever? No, you'd just reach and look at the same time. You wouldn't notice how smooth it was because you'd be glancing from point A directly to point B, the flaps lever.

trackIR is an immersion enhancement that works the same as your eyes and head do in reality. A mouse's speed is irrelevent.



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Tongue-tied & twisted,
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I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:58 PM
Dude, this isn't the Matrix. This is a gizmo on your head with a laser with a much lower refresh rate than a mouse.

To say you wouldn't notice the how much less smooth the FOV pans is ridiculous. It's right there, on your monitor. It's what you see. Seeing is believing so let's see some tracks.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:59 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-
-
- Ok I read your smoothness detection argument but
- it's not true. I can tell using a tack the
- difference between smoothness between my mouse and
- my ministick-as-a-mouse on the CH Pro throttle (it's
- too slow refreshing for mousing, and probably just
- like track IR).

Ive never seen a CH Pro but I can only imagine having a tack in my ministick mouse thingy there..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
rad the squeamish


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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:03 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I didn't take the time to read your post, but if you
- say it's smooth then post a track where it is
- obvious it is smooth and you aren't just cheating
- and using a mouse.
-

Ray how can you tell by watching a track if Trackir has been used for panning or a mouse, you simply can't can you.

And for what it's worth, I bought Trackir based upon the overall comments I've seen in these forum's. I'm still getting used to it, but it really does add another dimension to the game, definately money well spent (I enjoy flying with pit on now/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif - thanks guys). BTW IMO it does it really well.

Anyway:

1)if you don't take the time to read the thread, why bother posting.

2)Why ask for something you must know you can't have.

3)you make me chuckle lots

Regards

Rook

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:07 PM
Dexmeister wrote:
- First of all, quickly turn your head and focus on an
- object that's straight out from your shoulder. Are
- you focused on that object from the moment you start
- turning your head from this screen?

Um, actually yes. My eyes always go into motion first. Upon finding the target, they maintain relative position to it as my head continues to swivel.

But I'm going to figure a way to put my TrackIR (haven't ordered it yet) on a slider and then you'll all be doomed!

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:07 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Dude, this isn't the Matrix. This is a gizmo on
- your head with a laser with a much lower refresh
- rate than a mouse.
-
- To say you wouldn't notice the how much less smooth
- the FOV pans is ridiculous. It's right there, on
- your monitor. It's what you see. Seeing is
- believing so let's see some tracks.


You're circumventing my point entirely. The track recorder doesn't prove anything because it may not be smooth in the first place regardless of what's controlling the panning. Even padlock may not look smooth to an uber-ace like yourself.

If you swing your head to check your 6, you turn naturally and see the change take place. Can you focus while you swivel your head around? NO, you can't.

You're saying that because of a mhz frequency, a mouse, which entails using your hand to control what your head should be doing, is better. That's ridiculous, though a matter of opinion, but I'll take the more natural option, thanks. Adds to my immersion since I feel like I'm really looking over my shoulder, not wanking my hand to the side. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

You may as well be telling me that swiveling your foot to check-6 is better because that's the same as your mouse theory.



<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
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I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:10 PM
Cossack13 wrote:

- Um, actually yes. My eyes always go into motion
- first. Upon finding the target, they maintain
- relative position to it as my head continues to
- swivel.
-


Point taken. Still, during a lot of the movement to check 6 you aren't focused, which negates the need for smooth scrolling. Know what I mean?



<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
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</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:25 PM
Hm, maybe I should tell you what the visual nerves do when you change focus from one point to the other, they do not transmit signals during that time. True it is only for milliseconds, but during those milliseconds in which you change focus form one point to another you are blind, but it being such a short time period you usually do not notice it. The body does this to prevent a feeling of dizzyness, because of the pictures it would receive during the head or eye-movement. This jerky movement of eye focus is called saccades, so forget smooth vision unless your focus remains on an object (even a mobile one).

And about smoothness, well 25 pictures per second seem already enough to create a smooth enough picture for human standards, otherwise movies would need more pictures per second, wouldn't they?

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:37 PM
Dexmeister wrote:
- Still, during a lot of the movement to
- check 6 you aren't focused, which negates the need
- for smooth scrolling. Know what I mean?

Well, I won't know the specifics of this until I get my Track IR and try it out. What I'm banking on is the ability to track a plane without letting go of the HOTAS, something that a mouse will never offer.

For a snap check to six, I don't really need it to be all that smooth.


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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:51 PM
Dexmeister, are you a spokesman for TrackIR?... because you may have not convinced RBJ about it but you probably convinced everyone around him./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 10:05 PM
lazio5 wrote:
- Dexmeister, are you a spokesman for TrackIR?...

No, sadly, I'm just a sim junkie that loves gadgets, especially when they work better than an "Ace's" 200mhz mouse. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 10:08 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ... well you should be, good post.

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 10:41 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I didn't take the time to read your post, but if you
- say it's smooth then post a track where it is
- obvious it is smooth and you aren't just cheating
- and using a mouse.
-

I swear on the lives of my children that TRI is as smooth as a mouse.

Good enough for you, RBJ?

Good, now f**k off!!

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 11:17 PM
Der_Schnitter_t wrote:

- And about smoothness, well 25 pictures per second
- seem already enough to create a smooth enough
- picture for human standards, otherwise movies would
- need more pictures per second, wouldn't they?

Wrong. You're comparing two totally different formats and methods of tricking the eye into seeing full motion. Film only requires 25fps because each frame of movement has motion blur in the frame to act as a transition to the next. Computers don't use motion blur in 3D games (yet) so it needs to drawa many more frames to trick the eye.

The human eye can detect the difference between 60fps - 80fps aproximately. Try playing an FPS game at 25fps and tell me you can't see the difference in jerkiness even up to 60fps.

The 25fps film argument is a common misperception. Do a google search on the subject and find out for yourself. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-----

As for TIR, yes it is about 95% as smooth as a 60hz mouse. The 5% is from having to extrapolate smaller head movement to the maximum tracking area (about the size of the monitor screen) if set up properly. TIR polls at 60hz which IMHO isn't good enough for a FPS type game but more than adequate for a flight sim for the exact reasons Dex describes in his initial post.

The other factor is lag. The higher the smoothness setting in TIR the more lag is introduced into the movement. Smoothness can make up for "jerky" motion at the expense of a bit of lag which is why after a few months I've lowered smoothing down to about 60 so it responds better for quick six checks and such.

Again, the "jerkiness" doesn't matter in a flight sim as long as it stays still when you focus on where you are looking. IL2 in non-enhanced mode was crap on TIR for the most part because even when you held it still a plane flying on a relative angle to you looked like it was sliding down a staircase! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Not a problem in FB now!

RBJ just needs to try one for himself and decide if he likes it, and I do know where he is coming from. Many people are happy with 20fps in a game with a two dollar mouse and cheapass speakers. Discerning gamers require more precision than casual ones who don't really know any better.

I'm looking forward to an even better TIR with higher polling rates down the road but I have to say that in FB it is just as smooth as a mouse. I wouldn't play a competetive FPS game with TIR but it works amazingly with flight sims.

RBJ is kind of married himself to his viewpoint now and wouldn't likely risk having to admit he was mistaken anyway, but if he can swallow his pride I think, like the rest of us, he will be a much better pilot for it!

Cheers!

"You can ***** your finger..."

Flying online as "Charvel"

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 11:52 PM
Did I type that whole dissertation just to have it fall off of page 1? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"You can ***** your finger..."

Flying online as "Charvel"

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 11:58 PM
No PriK, I thought your points were all totally valid, I just didn't have a response...

So basically we both agree that RBJ is wrong then? I thort so /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 12:02 AM
its going to be pretty damn cool when fps games start supporting tir though. itll be just like being in a gunner position in fb, moving your head seperatly from your gun instead of your head basically being attached to your head. i wonder how long it will take before the first tir supporting fps comes out

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 12:05 AM
I don`t think trackIR will work well in FPS.. it`s just head you turn there, the whole body and the crosshair. I think it would be hard to aim, probably harder then with the mouse. Just my 02c

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 12:24 AM
It *could* work for some types of FPS games should they build in absolute mode support. Problem is, that FPS are fast moving games and might require a next version of TIR with higher polling and less lag to be really useful. It would be tricky aiming as well when your head is detached from your body so it would be a whole different type of game.

Games like Morrowind would be ideal however and I can't wait for these games to start supporting it.

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Hawgdog
06-20-2003, 01:11 AM
RBJ, what happened to your post about the trackIR and the P-39? In that one you supported trackIR. Search engines work as well as debates about vulching and script cheating or I'd have posted it. You even included a pic, some ramblings about trackIR and cheating, well before you wanting to sell your handle.
p.s. I dont think RBJ is the same one as a year ago

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 01:55 AM
Just for you RBJ:

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/tir.zip

This was my 4th or 5th time using trackIR! If that isn't intuitive I don't know what is.

Now go play with your slider or something...

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 02:34 AM
i can see where it would take some getting used to. when your holding an mp5 to shoot with accuracy, in a shooting stance you move your head with the gun anyway. tir already has a button that instantly makes it less responsive and one that turns it off so if the game had buttons for responsivness, i donno anywhere from off to full head movement...or if it depended on if your gun was just drawn down by your waist not at the ready, or if you had it up with the butt against your shoulder..... or what if you took apart a joystick, made a replica mp5, put the buttons in it and put the tir reflective disk on the front of the gun....just thinking out loud

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 02:40 AM
don't pay any attention to RBJ. He's a froccio!!

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 02:49 AM
It works just as smooth as the mouse so long as you set it up correctly.

RBJ you should not have a opinion about this, as you dont have TiR anything you say is just dribble.

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 03:53 AM
For Pete's sake, Dex; RBJ doesn't HAVE a TIR; why argue with someone who obviously has no frame of reference in which to judge?

You are right in each particular point about TIR; when I'm flying with it, I'm IN that cockpit; there's simply no comparison.

Regards,
HerrBaron

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 04:06 AM
RBJ, I didn't bother reading your post cause you're so predictable.

You must be running FB on a commodore 64 or maybe even a PET if you think the posted tracks are not smooth.





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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 04:41 AM
I haven't bothered to watch the track yet, but i will tell you this: There are many peeps who can't even tell the difference between vsync on or off! And some people even use AA and aniso on their GF4Ti4200 and act as if their frame rate it great!

I could be getting a constant 1000FPS and still see stutter using a device with a refresh rate that is too low. I know what I am talking about! I have 20/20 vision and have played video games since the late 70's.


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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 04:41 AM
I'm just glad to see that the "super greg" sig is back!

super greg, number one......

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 04:48 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-I know what I am talking about! I have
- 20/20 vision and have played video games since the
- late 70's.


The shame of it all is that you fight to be right on something and in the end you're the one missing out. I was flying online tonight and there's something just so damn cool about looking out the side of your plane as you start final approach. It's far deeper than mhz or any other techno babble b.s. and it's what I love about simming - the feeling I'm _there_.

Seriously RBJ, all arguing aside, it's too bad you're missing out.



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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 05:04 AM
For anyone that wants to see trackIR in use, all you had to do was go to their web site and download the movie. It shows it using IL2 and MSFS.

http://www.trackir.com/sidebar/images/trackIR_big.wmv
or
http://www.trackir.com/sidebar/images/trackIR_small.wmv

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 05:09 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I haven't bothered to watch the track yet, but i
- will tell you this: There are many peeps who can't
- even tell the difference between vsync on or off!
- And some people even use AA and aniso on their
- GF4Ti4200 and act as if their frame rate it great!

And some people post messages about how low resolution + AA/AF is cheating because it allows one to see things quite clearly.


- I could be getting a constant 1000FPS and still see
- stutter using a device with a refresh rate that is
- too low. I know what I am talking about! I have
- 20/20 vision and have played video games since the
- late 70's.

TrackIR is still as smooth as Buddy Lee. Furthermore, these are for you: <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <S!> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<font face="Courier New">
&nbspBaldieJr
_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.
Whiners don't play vulchers
(er, winners)
</font>

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 06:27 AM
The emulator is smooth as glass. I don't know why the product wouldn't be. They may soon have a 180 view to boot.

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 07:54 AM
I'll post a ground attack trk (just beating up an airfield in QMB). I get 50+ fps with my setup (reduced graphics) so if you play it back at 15 fps of course it will suck.


http://users.bigpond.net.au/fred_sim_stuff/ir_trk.zip

I have never hosted a file before, so I can't say for sure whether the link will work.

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 10:56 AM
RBJ is annoying as rosie o'donald but i agree with him track ir should eb called trash ir. I had it for a couple months and sold it mouse cursor control I like alot better dont like playing with a neck brace

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter


&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];}</script>
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JerseyD
06-20-2003, 11:47 AM
RBJ wrote:"ministick-as-a-mouse on the CH Pro throttle"

you've abandoned your precious MS sidwinder POS?

Was it your birthday recently?



&lt;script>var YourPicName="http://home.cfl.rr.com/jerseydevil/JerseyDevil's%20Frag%20Zone/Frag%20Zone_files/TJD.gif"</script>

&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName;o.height=50;o.width=46</script>
<Center>http://home.cfl.rr.com/jerseydevil/JerseyDevil's%20Frag%20Zone/Frag%20Zone_files/109chevysig.jpg (http://www.mudmovers.com/Sims/IL2/il2_skins_sports.htm)</center>

J¨rsé¿D¨v*L

<a href=http://www.diskworks.com/myth.html>The Jersey Devil (Fact or Fiction?)</a>



Message Edited on 06/20/0306:49AM by JerseyD

Hawgdog
06-20-2003, 11:59 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I haven't bothered to blah blah blah, but i
- will tell you this: Blah Blah Blah many peeps :0
- blah tell the difference between blah blah blah!
- And some people blah blah blah
- Blah, Blah....blah, and blah!
-
- I could be Blah Blah blah http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
- stutter blah with a blah rate that blah
- Blah. I know what I am talking about! Blah LOL
- Blah blah blah played video games since the
- late 70's.


Hey, were you the kid playing PONG in 1978 in the Pizza palor screaming about pixel deliniations?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif :0 :*

<center></script>IDC
Completely disorganized,and coming to a base near you
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
http://users.adelphia.net/~hawgdog/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 12:10 PM
I use the Microsoft FFB2 and the CH Pro throttle USB and have no use for TrashIR. Go ahead and use it...if you want to look like that geek in high school with the braces strap that goes around his head.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 12:28 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I know what I am talking about! I have
- 20/20 vision and have played video games since the
- late 70's.

If you have been looking at tv screens and monitors for that long you can't have 20/20 vision anymore.

More likely your glasses are as thick as the armored glass in a FW190.


&lt;script>var avatar='http://www.opzolder.net/dsa/f2.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=avatar</script>

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 12:32 PM
Actually has much, much higher refresh rates than a mouse.
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Dude, this isn't the Matrix. This is a gizmo on
- your head with a laser with a much lower refresh
- rate than a mouse.
-
- To say you wouldn't notice the how much less smooth
- the FOV pans is ridiculous. It's right there, on
- your monitor. It's what you see. Seeing is
- believing so let's see some tracks.
-
- <img
- src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/rep
- ository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 12:46 PM
I love a debate among gadget aces

Reminds me of trekkies

***I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. That, or Duder. His Dudeness. Or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing***

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 12:51 PM
I use a trackir and love it!

However, I can't honestly sit and say RJB is wrong here - it is not AS smooth as a mouse.


Is it good ? Absolutely -

I don't know if it is more to do with the level of preciseness with your hand and the mouse.. vs. using your head.

I make some tradeoff for smoothness by making the back 6 view a faster, less precise movement - and attempt to set the deadzone well enough to be more precise for targeting.

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Wars Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://forgottenwars.dyndns.org
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg

Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem



Message Edited on 06/20/0311:53AM by Recon_609IAP

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 01:35 PM
Actually some FPS games *do* allow you to move the head independently from the weapon, Operation Flashpoint being a case in point.

I sometimes play FPS games with both the mouse AND trackIR. Why?


OK, picture the scene. You are playing natural selection (a marines vs aliens Half-Life Mod), your team walks up to an intersection, and you want to check for Kharaa in each corridor (and above you on the ceiling!) so you look around, with your head. Just then, you hear a scream so you whip around (with both your head and mouse) to see your rearguard taking a pair of jaws in the neck.

Crying out you unload your clip into the lerk which dances around you trying to make you the main course, your small natural head movements towards the target working in concert with your hand and helping to keep your crosshair centred over the target...

TrackIR will not replace a mouse in an FPS precisely because you can't react as precisely with your head as you can with your hand, but the two in concert make for great, immersive fun. Precisely as they do in IL2 and FB.


Incidentally, I have plonked an IR led on the brim of a baseball cap and run wires inside the cap to a AAA battery pack on the rear of the cap with a switch. The cap looks completely normal (no reflective tape on the front) and works like a charm. You can even turn the IR leds off on the trackIR unit.

&lt;embed src="http://www.redhalibut.co.uk/webs/RedHalibut/images/flysig020503ii.swf" loop=true menu=false quality=high wmode=transparent bgcolor=#000000 WIDTH=400 HEIGHT=32 TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash"></EMBED>&lt;script>d="doc";doc=window[d+"ument"];var a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor = "#000000";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#000000";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#000000";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#000000";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "#000000";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#000000";}</script>

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 04:53 AM
I'd like to welcome CrazyIvan as the latest convert into the pro-trackIR fold. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Another satisfied customer to stand against RBJ /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

(oh, and bump)



<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>



<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 04:56 AM
RBJ does not own track ir, Im his pops so don't listen to a word he says. I think he acts outrageous becuase I always ignore him.

<img src=http://www.geocities.com/aceholefb/acehole.txt>

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 05:04 AM
ACE.HOLE wrote:
- RBJ does not own track ir, Im his pops so don't
- listen to a word he says. I think he acts outrageous
- becuase I always ignore him.


Too bad his mother didn't ignore you.

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 05:31 AM
News Flash! Unibrow Monkey Has 5 Phrases. Keeps 50 Humans Bewildered by Rearranging Them!

Reuters June 19,2003

Ran Ban Jockey has been revealed to be a trained monkey at a cosmetic testing institute in Alabama. The primate was given a computer and a keyboard then allowed to freely surf the internet. In between cosmetic tests and flinging poo at his captors he taught himeslf how to use the forums at UBIsoft. Over the years he has learned the following phrases:

1) I am an ace
2) Trim on slider
3) refresh rate too low
4) Verticle sync off is noticable to the dicerning monkey
5) Track IR sucks

By rearranging these 5 phrases he has increased the traffic at UBIsoft 10 fold and is now getting kickbacks from the site host. Moderators have been warned to treat him specially and lock all attacks against the blathering primate.

In recent posts, when faced with start reality, the Rhesus-Orangatang cross has figure out how to make circular arguments.

Researchers from Harvard and Yale are in a bidding war to buy the primate from the lab in order to see if they can teach him a new set of phrases so that he can moderate forums at Quake related websites. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://myweb.cableone.net/edmondsonm/xsquash.jpg

Hawgdog
06-21-2003, 01:16 PM
Sliceback wrote:

- 4) Verticle sync off is noticable to the dicerning
- monkey



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center></script>IDC
Completely disorganized,and coming to a base near you
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
http://users.adelphia.net/~hawgdog/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 04:35 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<a href= target="_blank"

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