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View Full Version : Decrease Wardens Shoulder Bash Speed



Nokhchalla
10-08-2017, 12:51 PM
I main Lawbringers and everyone knows they are slow etc, but im not sure if this is exclusive to LB only, but this is how a typical fight with a Warden shoulder bash spamming cancer goes, with me not able to do anything because it is so fast.

Shoulder bash -> hit 1, 2 -> shoulder bash -> hit 1, 2 (infinite loop)

Sometimes I am lucky enough to press spacebar to go to the side (probably because they allow me to on purpose), then they guardbreak (I cant resist GB while moving) -> hit 1, 2 -> shoulder bash -> hit 1, 2 (regenerate and repeat if im not already dead). Mind you, I am spamming the keyboard with everything to get out of this loop, but there's rarely any luck if it's 1v1.

Antonioj26
10-08-2017, 01:10 PM
I main Lawbringers and everyone knows they are slow etc, but im not sure if this is exclusive to LB only, but this is how a typical fight with a Warden shoulder bash spamming cancer goes, with me not able to do anything because it is so fast.

Shoulder bash -> hit 1, 2 -> shoulder bash -> hit 1, 2 (infinite loop)

Sometimes I am lucky enough to press spacebar to go to the side (probably because they allow me to on purpose), then they guardbreak (I cant resist GB while moving) -> hit 1, 2 -> shoulder bash -> hit 1, 2 (regenerate and repeat if im not already dead). Mind you, I am spamming the keyboard with everything to get out of this loop, but there's rarely any luck if it's 1v1.

Its already 700ms and has been nerfed 2 times. It doesn't need another one.

Herbstlicht
10-08-2017, 01:40 PM
It always was very strong in low to medium skill bracket against characters with slower dodge and will always stay this way; so people will always have some valid point to complain here. Not saying it should be nerfed, but considering a spammy bad connection player, it could feel like really, really nasty.

Lyskir
10-08-2017, 03:19 PM
warden is one of the most balanced heroes in this game atm after his SB nerfs, i agree with Antonijo

Baggin_
10-08-2017, 06:45 PM
Yeah they really need to take cancel onto gb out of it. They also need to make it so there is a delay before you can gb after dashing to eliminate characters 50/50s like warlord for example. That would all around make this game less cheesey and enjoyable.

Antonioj26
10-08-2017, 07:12 PM
Yeah they really need to take cancel onto gb out of it. They also need to make it so there is a delay before you can gb after dashing to eliminate characters 50/50s like warlord for example. That would all around make this game less cheesey and enjoyable.

Warlord doesn't have a 50/50, and if you take away the gb cancel from sb then you make it useless. You would have to give him something else for compensation, he already falls somewhere in the middle. No need to nerf someone who already has a limited moveset.

bmason1000
10-08-2017, 07:49 PM
Warlord doesn't have a 50/50, and if you take away the gb cancel from sb then you make it useless. You would have to give him something else for compensation, he already falls somewhere in the middle. No need to nerf someone who already has a limited moveset.Perfect response.


Yeah they really need to take cancel onto gb out of it. They also need to make it so there is a delay before you can gb after dashing to eliminate characters 50/50s like warlord for example. That would all around make this game less cheesey and enjoyable.I'm curious what 50/50 you feel warlord has? Also why you think adding that delay is beneficial? I'm not mocking you or anything, I'm actually interested in what your thoughts are on both of those.

Nokhchalla
10-08-2017, 07:52 PM
Hmm, I see, perhaps Ubisoft should slightly increase Lawbringers guardmode speed then, to atleast have a chance to get out of this.

Antonioj26
10-08-2017, 07:57 PM
Hmm, I see, perhaps Ubisoft should slightly increase Lawbringers guardmode speed then, to atleast have a chance to get out of this.

Do you mean by letting lawbringer block the lights that follow from sb?

Nokhchalla
10-08-2017, 08:00 PM
Do you mean by letting lawbringer block the lights that follow from sb?

I meant movement speed, but I dont know, what you wrote doesn't sound too bad either.

Antonioj26
10-08-2017, 08:29 PM
I meant movement speed, but I dont know, what you wrote doesn't sound too bad either.

Nah that would make it useless if it can just be blocked, there would be no point in trying to dodge it since GB would be the only means of getting damage.

Baggin_
10-08-2017, 08:32 PM
When Warlord dashes forward can headbutt or gb which makes it a borderline 50/50 it wasn't bad when they nerfed his headbutt speed, but since they reverted it back to the incredible speed (that's almost impossible to dodge) it's turned back into a 50/50. When you have spammable luck based moves like lb, warlord and warden have in a skill based game. Your game is no longer skill based. This is how i see it and have always seen it and why i've stopped playing recently. I can't explain why the Devs would want to ruin their game like this.

Antonioj26
10-08-2017, 08:44 PM
When Warlord dashes forward can headbutt or gb which makes it a borderline 50/50 it wasn't bad when they nerfed his headbutt speed, but since they reverted it back to the incredible speed (that's almost impossible to dodge) it's turned back into a 50/50. When you have spammable luck based moves like lb, warlord and warden have in a skill based game. Your game is no longer skill based. This is how i see it and have always seen it and why i've stopped playing recently. I can't explain why the Devs would want to ruin their game like this.

It's definitely fast, but unreactable 50/50? Nah.

Baggin_
10-08-2017, 08:49 PM
It's basically a 50/50, it needs to be slowed down like they had it. Anyways i've basically stopped playing for now until they take aways all the nonsense 50/50 and actually balance their game properly. I head that the devs actually want to keep the 50/50s and make them stronger in which case i may never be able to come back to this game. I like skill in my games. If I want luck i'll go to the casino.

Antonioj26
10-08-2017, 09:06 PM
It's basically a 50/50, it needs to be slowed down like they had it. Anyways i've basically stopped playing for now until they take aways all the nonsense 50/50 and actually balance their game properly. I head that the devs actually want to keep the 50/50s and make them stronger in which case i may never be able to come back to this game. I like skill in my games. If I want luck i'll go to the casino.

After they nerfed it became completely useless at high levels and even mid levels of play, youre talking an extra 300ms, that's absurd. It's even more absurd when you can watch competitive tournaments and you can see it was reliably dodged prenerfed. It's not a 50/50 just because you can't reliably react to it.

Baggin_
10-08-2017, 09:15 PM
I used to be like you once, defending this game left and right. I've realized recently that this game is still in a beta state and it should of been released either next year or 2019 with an early access version available for 1/2 price as compensation for being beta testers. As for after nerf warlord anyone who was good could still whoop *** with him, most people who play him just spam so the majority were not very good so they cried which is why they reverted it back to how it was.

IesooMI
10-08-2017, 09:44 PM
Jesus people still can't handle the SB? I'd understand the complaints coming from a Highlander with his slow startups, but a LB? Lol either roll out or just top light.

Antonioj26
10-08-2017, 09:49 PM
I used to be like you once, defending this game left and right. I've realized recently that this game is still in a beta state and it should of been released either next year or 2019 with an early access version available for 1/2 price as compensation for being beta testers. As for after nerf warlord anyone who was good could still whoop *** with him, most people who play him just spam so the majority were not very good so they cried which is why they reverted it back to how it was.

Nah you were never like me, for one I don't defend this game left and right, I just don't blame every loss on the game not being balanced. 90% of the complaints have a counter or are reactable. Not too long ago you were complaining about "vortex's" when you didn't even know what that meant, you just assumed unblockable meant vortex, so like I said no you aren't and never were like me. There are tons of problems with this game, but warlord doesn't have a 50/50 just because you yourself can't counter it.

Baggin_
10-08-2017, 10:00 PM
Whatever you say mr.

Nokhchalla
10-09-2017, 12:42 AM
Jesus people still can't handle the SB? I'd understand the complaints coming from a Highlander with his slow startups, but a LB? Lol either roll out or just top light.

Perhaps you should reread what I wrote, this topic is based on countless tests, multiple wardens doing it on me over and over. As I said, the game doesn't register anything even though im spamming the keyboard like crazy. There is no way to roll out or top light with LB, he is too slow.

brashtralas
10-09-2017, 01:50 AM
Lawbringer has one of the only guaranteed counters to the shoulderbash. Just dodge when he starts and then shove. Your shove takes precedence over his bash, free light.

Vonnivek
10-09-2017, 02:06 AM
Perhaps you should reread what I wrote, this topic is based on countless tests, multiple wardens doing it on me over and over. As I said, the game doesn't register anything even though im spamming the keyboard like crazy. There is no way to roll out or top light with LB, he is too slow.

In fact, LB can dodge out of it.
I've seen my LB opponent dodge out of it, also LB's top light is fast enough to stop warden's SB cancel to GB.
If you can't do it, maybe it's because the connection or simply because your timing isn't right.
Spamming inputs won't help you get the right timing in this game, you have to wait for the right moment to input.

darkspawn2101
10-09-2017, 03:20 AM
Yeah they really need to take cancel onto gb out of it. They also need to make it so there is a delay before you can gb after dashing to eliminate characters 50/50s like warlord for example. That would all around make this game less cheesey and enjoyable.

No they dont.

I've played as Warden, and agaisnt Warden. You can usually predict when they'll do it. It's a matter of mindgames, and reading your opponant.

If you cant do that, improve.

RoosterIlluzion
10-09-2017, 03:36 AM
Haha haha haha, haha haha haha! Holy ****, this has to be satire!

lNogardl
10-10-2017, 02:10 AM
It's basicly the only way to play against a good lawbringer. I played against a lawbringer a few days ago that just baited my top light parry to parry it and unblock punish me. It was too late at night and i gave up because i felt too tired, but literally my only option to deal with that turtling would be to spam my sb (which i despise to do that)

AcheesyTURTLE
10-10-2017, 06:58 AM
Is this real? Rep 40 warden here, if I carelessly throw out shoulder bashed I get punished hard. If your getting killed by SB spammers, you need more practice. End of story. As for the nerf, thatís a hard no as well. Itís literally the only thing in a warden kit. Top light is a warden trademark and everyone knows it. Every fight Iím in, the enemy instantly guard stances up, and anyone worth a **** can parry all the heavys because warden feint game is garbage. Play before you post people.

Kaijudub
10-10-2017, 11:55 AM
Is this real? Rep 40 warden here, if I carelessly throw out shoulder bashed I get punished hard. If your getting killed by SB spammers, you need more practice. End of story. As for the nerf, that’s a hard no as well. It’s literally the only thing in a warden kit. Top light is a warden trademark and everyone knows it. Every fight I’m in, the enemy instantly guard stances up, and anyone worth a **** can parry all the heavys because warden feint game is garbage. Play before you post people.

What this guy said, from another rep40 warden.

@OP you play the only character that has an attack from a simple block, that then puts people in an worse situation than the warden ever does. Learn to play your character before you start calling for nerfs on characters that have all ready been removed from high level viability.

Jazz117Volkov
10-10-2017, 02:28 PM
Lawbringer has one of the only guaranteed counters to the shoulderbash. Just dodge when he starts and then shove. Your shove takes precedence over his bash, free light.This.

I don't think it's guaranteed (might even be risky), but Longarm can pull just' bout anything over your shoulder, provided it hasn't hit you yet. Next time a Warden is starting up the shoulder dance, Longarm, side heavy, shove, feint into light + side heavy feint into GB, then heavy. You're welcome.

Baturai
10-10-2017, 04:37 PM
Nerf ****in Lb. Not Warden.

Kaijudub
10-11-2017, 10:46 AM
Nerf ****in Lb. Not Warden.

also this

Nokhchalla
10-11-2017, 11:10 AM
Not gonna happen and rightly so

SenBotsu893
10-11-2017, 01:02 PM
the funny thing is when i use warden and just sb ill get the enemy 90% of the time. and im just blindly sb then double hit sb then double hit and randomly go for gb.

from neutral the enemy could interrupt it if he has fast lights. but not everyone has fast light attacks. and once they got hit already the next sb is amost guranteed.

i think it shouldnt be cancelable into gb at all. every other bash in the game has to commit and that makes it avoidable. with warden you never know how to best react it is just up to chance

Antonioj26
10-11-2017, 01:51 PM
the funny thing is when i use warden and just sb ill get the enemy 90% of the time. and im just blindly sb then double hit sb then double hit and randomly go for gb.

from neutral the enemy could interrupt it if he has fast lights. but not everyone has fast light attacks. and once they got hit already the next sb is amost guranteed.

i think it shouldnt be cancelable into gb at all. every other bash in the game has to commit and that makes it avoidable. with warden you never know how to best react it is just up to chance

Then you've made it completely useless at even mid levels of play. If they did this they would need to either speed it up or give him something else in return, he's in the middle of the pack as is.

OneManAlone
10-11-2017, 02:21 PM
W0W laws stay perfect vs wardens the only thing u need to improve is your skill.