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thimoo
10-05-2017, 02:46 PM
Hello. Love this game saga, really do. Cant wait for the newest addition to hit us with a highly addicting touch. A syringe filled with Annoine!

I wanted to give my opinion about map sizes on continuous game (I expect it to be in Anno1800, since random generated maps were confirmed). There has been city building and resource management games with varying map sizes, usually slightly / WAY too small ones. You should consider adding a truly HUGE randomly generated maps. Take it even one or two steps further from Anno1404 or Anno2070 and add another 100% to the maximum size of the world. Too small maps are definitely a limiting factor, so why not to give an option for truly massive scale maps for us to toy with :) These days, we sure have the computing power and tech for it! People with weaker computers can ofcourse just reduce the size, but giving this option for a massive maps is not a loss for anyone. Rather the possibility for excessive than limiting.

It is the limiting factors that people will complain about, not the possibility for huge scaling or the world, so lets do this!

AgmasGold
10-05-2017, 04:04 PM
You should probably keep up to date with the Anno Union (https://www.anno-union.com/en/). This post (from the news section) goes over what the world size will be, in comparison to previous Anno's: https://www.anno-union.com/en/multisession-gameplay-in-anno-1800/

stylisticsagi
10-05-2017, 06:58 PM
Yeah the already mentioned the map sizes and i think there will be less island but bigger ones (perhaps they really are working on trains?!).
But you also have to watch out for TO big maps cuzz this could create that early game ships will take a long time to go to distant islands and this could be a major turn down for overal gameplay.

AgmasGold
10-05-2017, 08:33 PM
I think the map size discussed in the article is the maximum map size, I'm not 100% sure though.

thimoo
10-05-2017, 10:02 PM
I thank you, sir, for the links you provided. Good information, nice to see the issue has been noted by the Developers.

Still there's inside me, a not-so-secret personal wish for.. possibility for even more massive scale maps ;) People could set it smaller for not being too big for their taste.
The post answered quite some things, good stuff! Looks like we're getting clearly improved experience compared to 2205. I wish you well :)

AgmasGold
10-06-2017, 10:34 AM
You're very welcome :).

Yeah some kind of dynamic map size could be interesting. Obviously it would be experimental, and would not be a recommended map size, but maybe just having a bound rather than a set of options would be interesting. For me, I don't really need anything much bigger. 1404/2070 map sizes were fine for me, but I would still be curious to see how far things can be pushed.

stylisticsagi
10-06-2017, 02:45 PM
I'm not really in need of a larger map, however what i would like to see are more off-map actions.
WE know them from the treasure hunting in anno 1404.
I think setting up trade routes outside the map in a simular way would be a nice add on, the ship would be away for a while and when it returns it has a whole (or empty) cargo with more profits.

This way the world feels bigger yet the map stays the same.

AgmasGold
10-06-2017, 04:24 PM
More things like expeditions from Anno 1404 are a great idea.

Mendahor
10-06-2017, 10:46 PM
If we refer to the blog post AgmasGold linked, I counted exactly the same number of islands on Anno 2070 and Anno 1800 (don't remember the exact number, maybe 25 or 27 ?) So since the world map is bigger and the space between islands don't seams to be greater, I think we can expect some of the islands to be bigger than previous Anno's ones.

If I remember well, they talked about trading routes where one ship of your main session is following its way to a second session like it : when it leaves your main session map, it is simulated (or really calculated, it's not really clear) to go to the other session map. So in my mind (I may be wrong), this sounds exactly *more* of what you say : the world don't *seams* to be bigger, it *is* bigger (while the maps stays the same).

I think that all of this resumes to how they implement that second (or more) session simulation.

AgmasGold
10-07-2017, 12:21 PM
The main crux of it is that they want to keep sessions to a minimum, as constantly switching between them was an annoying thing from 2205. They have also stated multiple times (in case you were worried) that colonizing in a second session will be completely optional - you can achieve everything from one session if you don't want 2 or more sessions.

stylisticsagi
10-07-2017, 01:49 PM
I think every game should stand alone, no interaction with other games or save files

stylisticsagi
10-07-2017, 01:50 PM
I think every game should stand for itself, no interaction with other games/save files or sessions.
I already annoyed me alot on the ark in 2070 about that part

AgmasGold
10-07-2017, 03:04 PM
Some people felt that the extra interaction between the ark added an extra layer of strategy to the game. I kind of feel the same way as you, but I guess you can just absolve to not use the features of the ark. I did like that fact that it gave an option for global buffs, something not really possible in the other Anno games (excluding things like the Historic Warehouses from 1404).

stylisticsagi
10-08-2017, 09:33 AM
The hgistoric warehouse boost was something i really really loved!
A building wich has it's purpuse and then still can give a good boost to everything you have.

I would definitly like to see more of that.
If compared with other larger monuments it really stood out of the rest because of that.

SirDavidFirst
10-08-2017, 12:43 PM
The one thing I like about the last anno game was the many different parts of the world there were, so looking at the way ships move from one part to another would be great, and then have a very big map to start with many areas of the maps where trains will bring good to one or two sea ports to transport good to other parts of the world map. I would love it if one map leads to another?

AgmasGold
10-08-2017, 03:30 PM
I'm not 100% sure but they have talked about how ships will move from one session (map) to another, if that's what you mean. A ship will be able to leave one session, and will appear in the next.

ruuti0
01-01-2018, 09:03 PM
There was already official post from Anno union, but I can say overall that bigger = better. Of course in theory it could be too big (like taking hours to get your ship from island 1 to island 100), but I don't think we will have that problem. In practise they could even make 2-3x bigger maps what they have planned so far for 1800, and it still would be great.

OptimaForma
02-04-2018, 01:37 AM
It better have 1 map, 1 active session and the option for a HUGE map with lots of islands and HUGE islands in the continous game

AgmasGold
02-04-2018, 12:01 PM
You will be able to do everything you want from one session. Moving/colonizing a different session will be completely optional, unlike in Anno 2205. They have confirmed that the maps will be bigger overall: https://www.anno-union.com/en/multisession-gameplay-in-anno-1800/ compared to previous games.

iruet
02-05-2018, 12:43 PM
Agmas made a thread of all already known features, which you can find here: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1833935-Confirmed-Features-and-Already-Answered-Questions-For-Anno-1800

I think this is something which sums up all the available information on both topics here :) as well as mapsize as multi session ♥

ruuti0
02-05-2018, 05:50 PM
Can't wait to see how big empires we can build in new 1800 maps!

If one big island can take 80 hours work time, I can't even start to imagine how much it take to make all different kind of islands!

dmdilks
02-17-2018, 05:44 PM
I run the 1404 Mod and I have a map that is 2048 X 2048. That is a lot larger then what they are giving you 1800. I have no problem with supply routes.

https://imageshack.com/a/img924/1164/qQLFI4.png

ruuti0
02-17-2018, 07:53 PM
I run the 1404 Mod and I have a map that is 2048 X 2048. That is a lot larger then what they are giving you 1800. I have no problem with supply routes.


http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq161/dmdilks/map_zpsvvy8rf0r.png

I think they have other reasons than technical limit to set max size to 1600x1600.

I also heard rumor that some people had modified 2070 to use bigger map also, I don't know if that is true.

AgmasGold
02-17-2018, 08:51 PM
The map size is probably set so they can guarantee that it will work on most peoples PC's and hardware. Obviously a bigger map will be more challenging to run, and may have other technical implications that we don't know about.

ruuti0
02-17-2018, 09:24 PM
The map size is probably set so they can guarantee that it will work on most peoples PC's and hardware. Obviously a bigger map will be more challenging to run, and may have other technical implications that we don't know about.

You are probably right, it seemed that 2070 mod looked very laggy at least in youtube videos.

dmdilks
02-18-2018, 06:00 PM
You are probably right, it seemed that 2070 mod looked very laggy at least in youtube videos.

The 1404 Iaam Mod works great. I only play the Mod.

ruuti0
02-19-2018, 06:59 PM
The 1404 Iaam Mod works great. I only play the Mod.

What did it change?

dmdilks
02-21-2018, 07:46 PM
All the games have been laggy at one point or another. All the game have been laggy over land vs the water. Plus I have done testing with the lag. It is all in how close you are to how far you zoom out. The lag is at different level's when you are zoom in or zoom out.

AgmasGold
02-21-2018, 09:55 PM
Yeah, its because when you zoom out, you are displaying more polygons on the screen, and so your GPU has to do more work, rendering all the extra stuff.

ruuti0
02-22-2018, 03:36 PM
Yeah, its because when you zoom out, you are displaying more polygons on the screen, and so your GPU has to do more work, rendering all the extra stuff.

I think that is incorrect when you say that you are displaying more polugyons on the screen, because extra polygons are hidden most of time (like is case also without mod), map sizes are surely bigger, but how much you are displaying on the screen shouln't change.

It is surely harder for GPU render bigger map, that part I agree.

You can correct me if you think I am wrong.

ruuti0
02-22-2018, 03:40 PM
All the games have been laggy at one point or another. All the game have been laggy over land vs the water. Plus I have done testing with the lag. It is all in how close you are to how far you zoom out. The lag is at different level's when you are zoom in or zoom out.

"All the games have been laggy at one point or another"

What you mean with that? That all Anno mods are laggy or some mod is laggy in all games? Or something else?

AgmasGold
02-22-2018, 06:20 PM
I know where you are coming from, but basically, if the polygons are off screen, they are not being drawn. To draw graphics effectively, there are a lot of optimisations, one of which is that off screen polygons are not rendered, at all.

Look at it this way, lets say I have a 10x10 grid, each containing one polygon. When I am zoomed in, I only see a 3x3 grid, so only 9 polygons (the ones I can see) are being drawn. Now I zoom out to a 7x7 grid, now, there are 49 polygons being drawn, finally, if I zoom out even more to see the 10x10 grid, the GPU now has to draw 100 polygons. This is obviously a very simple explanation - most in 3D game assets consist of thousands of polygons.

If a GPU had to draw all the polygons on the map, including all the one off-screen, this would be impossible in most modern 3D games. (2D games that use sprites instead of polygons have a similar system, with only the sprites on screen being drawn).

ruuti0
02-22-2018, 08:12 PM
I know where you are coming from, but basically, if the polygons are off screen, they are not being drawn. To draw graphics effectively, there are a lot of optimisations, one of which is that off screen polygons are not rendered, at all.

Look at it this way, lets say I have a 10x10 grid, each containing one polygon. When I am zoomed in, I only see a 3x3 grid, so only 9 polygons (the ones I can see) are being drawn. Now I zoom out to a 7x7 grid, now, there are 49 polygons being drawn, finally, if I zoom out even more to see the 10x10 grid, the GPU now has to draw 100 polygons. This is obviously a very simple explanation - most in 3D game assets consist of thousands of polygons.

If a GPU had to draw all the polygons on the map, including all the one off-screen, this would be impossible in most modern 3D games. (2D games that use sprites instead of polygons have a similar system, with only the sprites on screen being drawn).

Yeah, but I meant that (I can be wrong in this) number of polygons that you draw doesn't change if you use mod, because how much you "zoom out" doesn't change even if map is bigger.

I admit that am not sure does polygon word mean what I mean here though, but I think you got my point.

You are free to correct me if what I said was wrong (still).

AgmasGold
02-22-2018, 10:13 PM
Ah yes, I understand now, yep you would be correct :) . Obviously having the bigger map (as you have said) would incur some minor overhead, but not nearly as much. For some reason, I was thinking the mod allows you to zoom out further... There is a setting you can change in the engine.ini file for anno 1404, that allows you to increase the amount you can zoom out, maybe that's why it was on my mind.

dmdilks
02-24-2018, 12:16 AM
When they have the old 1404 forum there were a few threads on lag. I have told many people that if you want to find out how good you computer is run Anno 1404. Plus it is true about what size of the map. The smaller the map less going on. Larger the map a lot more going on.


if the polygons are off screen, they are not being drawn. To draw graphics effectively, there are a lot of optimisations, one of which is that off screen polygons are not rendered, at all.

This I don't agree with sorry. If you watch your little map there is a lot going on. In some of the games I have played. You could have up to over 200 ship moving around the map. There is a lot going on in the back ground you don't see. Plus when it came to lag in the these games. It is more what you trying to run it on.

GnaReffotsirk
02-24-2018, 09:25 AM
I'd love to be able to select a random map on a "Session Screen" of sorts on different parts of the globe. Desert -- find Al'Zahir there, or the cold North, tropical, etc.

Expeditions to Antartica would be nice as well.

AgmasGold
02-24-2018, 12:00 PM
Yeah, sure the coordinates of the ships off-screen will be tracked, and the location of them updated on the mini-map. Doesn't mean they are being rendered by the GPU...

Personally I think in the late game gets more laggy due to a CPU limitation, not a GPU one. Its especially prevelant when there are a lot of AI's in the game, and AI decisions will be calculated by the CPU (as there is nothing to "render"). As the game gets longer, the AI have to make more complex decisions.

I personally have a pretty old CPU, and a moderate GPU, and in the Anno 1404 scenario Scourge of the Seas, there are 3 Hard AI's + Corsairs. This is a lot of AI decisions that need to made each frame and as the game goes on it starts to lag, and is definitely a CPU limitation, as lowering graphics settings has no effect.

ruuti0
02-24-2018, 12:45 PM
I'd love to be able to select a random map on a "Session Screen" of sorts on different parts of the globe. Desert -- find Al'Zahir there, or the cold North, tropical, etc.

Expeditions to Antartica would be nice as well.

I have been hoping version of this too. In my version north of map could be warmer and south could be colder, north could have even some desert islands and south could have antartica style islands.

Your suggestion is good too, I would be fine with it too. Antartica could be it own session (though I don't mean jumping between sessions like in 2205) and you could later get items from antartica area or get something else useful like research.


But I am afraid they won't add anything that we suggested to Anno 1800 at least.





Yeah, sure the coordinates of the ships off-screen will be tracked, and the location of them updated on the mini-map. Doesn't mean they are being rendered by the GPU...

Personally I think in the late game gets more laggy due to a CPU limitation, not a GPU one. Its especially prevelant when there are a lot of AI's in the game, and AI decisions will be calculated by the CPU (as there is nothing to "render"). As the game gets longer, the AI have to make more complex decisions.

I personally have a pretty old CPU, and a moderate GPU, and in the Anno 1404 scenario Scourge of the Seas, there are 3 Hard AI's + Corsairs. This is a lot of AI decisions that need to made each frame and as the game goes on it starts to lag, and is definitely a CPU limitation, as lowering graphics settings has no effect.

I agree, if you got lag it is most likely due CPU limitations (cpu usage isn't necesserily 100% or even near it because 1404 is so old game that it cannot use all cores & threads, but game has reached it limitations in CPU usage and with weaker CPUs you see lag happening). More ships, more cities, more AI action etc. = more CPU usage.

I personally didn't have lag in any versions of Anno, but I have always had a decent enough computer.