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View Full Version : Cheesy, Neutral, Respectable Characters



JuiceManDrew
10-03-2017, 09:50 PM
Cheesy:
Peacekeeper
Nobushi
Centurion
Lawbringer
Raider
Warden

Respectable:
Conqueror
Kensei
Orochi
Highlander
Berserker

Neutral:
Valkyrie
Shinobi
Gladiator
Shugoki
Warlord

So is this accurate? I play on PS4

bmason1000
10-03-2017, 10:39 PM
Tsk, tsk. Such hateful, disrespectful language.

UbiJurassic
10-04-2017, 01:46 AM
I've edited your post to exclude the language. I'd like to remind you that offensive language is against the forum rules and can result in an infraction.

JuiceManDrew
10-04-2017, 02:22 AM
I've edited your post to exclude the language. I'd like to remind you that offensive language is against the forum rules and can result in an infraction.

Sorry... so you think this list is accurate?

UbiJurassic
10-04-2017, 02:43 AM
Sorry... so you think this list is accurate?
In my opinion, spam depends more on the player than the hero. I'm a peacekeeper player, but I prefer to try and utilize all parts of my kit as opposed to potentially abusing a certain aspect of her kit to win.

bmason1000
10-04-2017, 03:19 AM
In my opinion, spam depends more on the player than the hero. I'm a peacekeeper player, but I prefer to try and utilize all parts of my kit as opposed to potentially abusing a certain aspect of her kit to win. That is very accurate. No character is designed with cheap tactics in mind, it's just how players choose to use them. We've all been cheesed to death by every single character spamming SOMETHING

Charmzzz
10-04-2017, 08:38 AM
Are you serious about this? Every Character can be played super-cheesy, see below.
Neutral(?):
Valkyrie - full block all the time, wait until opponent comes close for a shield bash, if not dodge away until stamina is full again - rinse and repeat
Shinobi - play the ranged safe game with an "occasional" double dodge feint or kick
Gladiator - only use Zone and Light into foot stab
Shugoki - this is the worst of them all: turtle up until you get ONE parry for a wall throw into Demon Embrace, do nothing else
Warlord - same as the Shugo above, but ledge them

Malyngo
10-04-2017, 09:10 AM
But the viability of the cheesy moves differ from hero to hero, doesn't it?

Lyskir
10-04-2017, 09:19 AM
Are you serious about this? Every Character can be played super-cheesy, see below.
Neutral(?):
Valkyrie - full block all the time, wait until opponent comes close for a shield bash, if not dodge away until stamina is full again - rinse and repeat
Shinobi - play the ranged safe game with an "occasional" double dodge feint or kick
Gladiator - only use Zone and Light into foot stab
Shugoki - this is the worst of them all: turtle up until you get ONE parry for a wall throw into Demon Embrace, do nothing else
Warlord - same as the Shugo above, but ledge them

i agree with this

Charmzzz
10-04-2017, 10:01 AM
But the viability of the cheesy moves differ from hero to hero, doesn't it?

Yes. Examples of moves that alot of people define as "cheese" - but have a simple counter:

Warden Shoulder Bash: Light Attack / GB if you are close to him (in weapon range) when he starts charging, Side-Dodge when you are out of range (he cannot GB you since the range of when his SB can be canceled into GB is very short).

Peacekeeper Zone: guard your right side - the normal PK Light Attack is 500ms which is pretty much reactable like all the other 500ms Attacks are, just not that easy to parry.

So what is real, viable cheese?
Zone-Flicker is one of the worst glitch abuses in this game (and I rarely see that PKs do this, but alot of Orochis)
Turtles who only wait for super safe mode moves: Demon Embrace / Ledge / Shove / Wall-Stagger-Cutscene only (Shugo, WL, Raider, LB, Cent are the best to do this)

Aarpian
10-04-2017, 01:10 PM
In my opinion, spam depends more on the player than the hero. I'm a peacekeeper player, but I prefer to try and utilize all parts of my kit as opposed to potentially abusing a certain aspect of her kit to win.

So you're bad?

Jazz117Volkov
10-04-2017, 01:16 PM
Your list is all over the place because you're talking about player behaviour. Certain kits are more easily abused, but for the most part, Valkyrie and Gladiator will out-spam/cheese Warden or Lawbringers any day.

I have respect for good Warlord players. Lot of annoying habits with that hero, but when you get a player who knows how to use the hyper armour, it's pretty cool to see.

Netcode_err_404
10-04-2017, 06:41 PM
Your list is all over the place because you're talking about player behaviour. Certain kits are more easily abused, but for the most part, Valkyrie and Gladiator will out-spam/cheese Warden or Lawbringers any day.

I have respect for good Warlord players. Lot of annoying habits with that hero, but when you get a player who knows how to use the hyper armour, it's pretty cool to see.

Turtling in this game consist in Block all till you get a parry.


LB don't even try this, they will just block > shove spam yu till you get annoyed and frustrated.

Because FH is a serious fighting game, you know.

JuiceManDrew
10-05-2017, 08:47 AM
So this list isn’t accurate? I could have added shinobi to cheese list but he has weakest defense and lowest health in game, and he’s easy prey to quick zone attacks. Valkyrie is not cheese, nor gladiator, they both have top light attacks that come at you quickly but those light attacks are parryable most of the time for me. Anyone calling shugoki cheese is funny, he is easily parryable... but good shugokis go for shoulder grab when a opponent is in middle of a unblockable heavy, that’s his only option.

JuiceManDrew
10-05-2017, 08:50 AM
Turtling in this game consist in Block all till you get a parry.


LB don't even try this, they will just block > shove spam yu till you get annoyed and frustrated.

Because FH is a serious fighting game, you know.

Lawbringer is pure cheese, no skill required. I see him win about 80% of his matchups in brawls

Charmzzz
10-05-2017, 09:02 AM
So this list isn’t accurate? I could have added shinobi to cheese list but he has weakest defense and lowest health in game, and he’s easy prey to quick zone attacks. Valkyrie is not cheese, nor gladiator, they both have top light attacks that come at you quickly but those light attacks are parryable most of the time for me. Anyone calling shugoki cheese is funny, he is easily parryable... but good shugokis go for shoulder grab when a opponent is in middle of a unblockable heavy, that’s his only option.

1. To have a Top Light Dash Attack is cheese for you? It is not for me... Cheese is playing ONLY in super-safe-mode, spamming safe moves all the time or wait for a parry into a heavy punish.
2. Anyone facing a Shugoki who DOES NOTHING ELSE than wait for a parry or GB you while you attack with his UI stance, then throw you into a wall to Demon Embrace you, will call this cheese. How do you parry a Shugo who NEVER attacks? Like never!? They can block all day, eat some Lights maybe, until they get one GB or parry, then they deal massive damage to you and heal themselves up. That is what I call cheese per definition - turtle up, spam safe move all over.


Lawbringer is pure cheese, no skill required. I see him win about 80% of his matchups in brawls

Good LB's are a pain, true. But there is counterplay for Block-Shove:
1. Assassins can deflect his light Attack after Shove for a good punish
2. Other Characters can just dodge the light Attack after Shove
3. If the LB goes for a GB instead of a light Attack it is pretty easy predictable because the time span between Shove into Light is very small

JuiceManDrew
10-05-2017, 09:06 AM
Are you serious about this? Every Character can be played super-cheesy, see below.
Neutral(?):
Valkyrie - full block all the time, wait until opponent comes close for a shield bash, if not dodge away until stamina is full again - rinse and repeat
Shinobi - play the ranged safe game with an "occasional" double dodge feint or kick
Gladiator - only use Zone and Light into foot stab
Shugoki - this is the worst of them all: turtle up until you get ONE parry for a wall throw into Demon Embrace, do nothing else
Warlord - same as the Shugo above, but ledge them

This list is based off of brawls, skirmish play.

Valkyrie - good players parry her top light and read her sweep
Shinobi - yeah they can be cheesy in duels/brawls but they suck when getting jumped in 4v4 play
Gladiator - same case as shinobi, great in duels/brawls but trash when getting ganked in 4v4
Shugoki - he is what he is, hes easily parryable so your force to turtle with him and wait for your opponent to attack. Characters with light attack spam(warden, shinobi, orochi, etc.) easily destroy him.
Warlord - maybe a counterattacking turtle can be cheesy but I never really had a problem with him, you just have to either wait for him to attack first or break his guard with a bash or use feints for openings

Charmzzz
10-05-2017, 09:25 AM
This list is based off of brawls, skirmish play.

Valkyrie - good players parry her top light and read her sweep
Shinobi - yeah they can be cheesy in duels/brawls but they suck when getting jumped in 4v4 play
Gladiator - same case as shinobi, great in duels/brawls but trash when getting ganked in 4v4
Shugoki - he is what he is, he’s easily parryable so your force to turtle with him and wait for your opponent to attack. Characters with light attack spam(warden, shinobi, orochi, etc.) easily destroy him.
Warlord - maybe a counterattacking turtle can be cheesy but I never really had a problem with him, you just have to either wait for him to attack first or break his guard with a bash or use feints for openings

Wait, now you try to underline your arguments by saying that those characters are not cheesy when being ganked? Could you elaborate your definition of cheese, please? Because when being ganked there is NO way to play out your cheesyness in my opinion.

Valk: you ignored my example of cheese completely - yes it is in a 1v1 situation, Valk can pretty much cheese a point in Dominion with this tactic forever in any 1v1

Shinobi: are you serious about this? Shinobi is one of the best gank Characters in 4v4! Ranged GB into Sickle Rain (where other enemies can hit you and you wont get out) or his sprint attack knocking you down. And you cannot gank a good Shinobi, he will super sprint / double dodge away from your gank attempt if he is at least decent.

Gladiator: again you say that Gladi cannot cheese because he is "trash" when ganked. I dont think so, but again, which character can "cheese" when being ganked? A PK concerning your list? Why? Reflex Guard, too. And the Zone Attack of Gladi is better in gank situations than the PK one because it has an UB melee first so your second attack connects 100%, plus nobody can parry the UB melee (only dodge and parry the 2.)

Shugo: your argument that Shugo is neutral is based on parrying him. What? Like I said, a cheesy Shugo is the worst you can face. He will never attack, literally, until he gets a wall stagger into Demon Embrace on you.

Warlord: same as Shugo, make ONE mistake and get ledged.

Vakris_One
10-05-2017, 09:38 AM
Cheesy:
Peacekeeper
Nobushi
Centurion
Lawbringer
Raider
Warden

Respectable:
Conqueror
Kensei
Orochi
Highlander
Berserker

Neutral:
Valkyrie
Shinobi
Gladiator
Shugoki
Warlord

So is this accurate? I play on PS4
I'd agree with this but for one change. Move Shinobi to cheesy. I have yet to meet a Shinobi that didn't try to abuse their dash kicks and ranged strike into kick. They have such low health they pretty much have no choice but to abuse safe moves. In 4v4 they are as cancerous as a Cent.

ChampionRuby50g
10-05-2017, 11:31 AM
Lawbringer is pure cheese, no skill required. I see him win about 80% of his matchups in brawls

So because he wins 80% of matchups, it immediately means no skill required?

JuiceManDrew
10-05-2017, 05:39 PM
Wait, now you try to underline your arguments by saying that those characters are not cheesy when being ganked? Could you elaborate your definition of cheese, please? Because when being ganked there is NO way to play out your cheesyness in my opinion.

Valk: you ignored my example of cheese completely - yes it is in a 1v1 situation, Valk can pretty much cheese a point in Dominion with this tactic forever in any 1v1

Shinobi: are you serious about this? Shinobi is one of the best gank Characters in 4v4! Ranged GB into Sickle Rain (where other enemies can hit you and you wont get out) or his sprint attack knocking you down. And you cannot gank a good Shinobi, he will super sprint / double dodge away from your gank attempt if he is at least decent.

Gladiator: again you say that Gladi cannot cheese because he is "trash" when ganked. I dont think so, but again, which character can "cheese" when being ganked? A PK concerning your list? Why? Reflex Guard, too. And the Zone Attack of Gladi is better in gank situations than the PK one because it has an UB melee first so your second attack connects 100%, plus nobody can parry the UB melee (only dodge and parry the 2.)

Shugo: your argument that Shugo is neutral is based on parrying him. What? Like I said, a cheesy Shugo is the worst you can face. He will never attack, literally, until he gets a wall stagger into Demon Embrace on you.

Warlord: same as Shugo, make ONE mistake and get ledged.

Valkyrie - I’ve seen many good players bait her shield bash and punish her for it

Shinobi - shinobi is great for ganking players but he’s trash when getting ganked. His zone attack is easily parryable, 2 second block timer, he can still get grabbed or attack during disappearing animation in double dodge. Only the few good players know his secret quadruple dodge(2 continuous double dodged without break in between) which is great for escaping outnumbered situation. A wise shinobi wouldn’t take on the challenge getting ganked so his only option is running. Getting pinned to the wall, cornered, or knocked down is instant death for him due to his low health pool.

Gladiator - his zone attack is not better than PKs. The strike comes out slow, hits 2 players at most, and he’s left wide open.. gladiator just looks like the perfect 1v1 player and his zone is for 1v1s it seems.

Shugoki - I have yet to play a cheesy shugoki, he’s easily bashable because s a big target. Another thing while playing shugoki is that it seems like players have a GB advantage over him. There were many times I GB at the same time as my opponent but his GB overlapped mine. I know this usually happens with every character but it happens to shugoki a lot, I don’t know what it is.. another shugoki problem is that I see many accidentally GB when they were intending to do a shoulder grab and vice versa. Down + Square (down + x on Xbox) is such a horrible setup for his shoulder grab. I rather have the move changed to square + triangle.

Warlord - ???

Netcode_err_404
10-05-2017, 05:55 PM
Lawbringer is pure cheese, no skill required. I see him win about 80% of his matchups in brawls

Thats why i want the lights after shoveblock to be removed, And buffed properly in pretty much all other of his kit which is mediocre


1. To have a Top Light Dash Attack is cheese for you? It is not for me... Cheese is playing ONLY in super-safe-mode, spamming safe moves all the time or wait for a parry into a heavy punish.
2. Anyone facing a Shugoki who DOES NOTHING ELSE than wait for a parry or GB you while you attack with his UI stance, then throw you into a wall to Demon Embrace you, will call this cheese. How do you parry a Shugo who NEVER attacks? Like never!? They can block all day, eat some Lights maybe, until they get one GB or parry, then they deal massive damage to you and heal themselves up. That is what I call cheese per definition - turtle up, spam safe move all over.



Good LB's are a pain, true. But there is counterplay for Block-Shove:
1. Assassins can deflect his light Attack after Shove for a good punish
2. Other Characters can just dodge the light Attack after Shove
3. If the LB goes for a GB instead of a light Attack it is pretty easy predictable because the time span between Shove into Light is very small

Is still risky. But i guess pk's don't have much troubles against him, her majesty light spam herself has divine blessing against infidel LB's