PDA

View Full Version : Now that cents dead, who's next?



lMoosel
09-29-2017, 04:23 AM
The community got what they wanted so who's next on the chopping block? Let's just keep putting characters to kensei tier.

Vrbas1
09-29-2017, 04:38 AM
Maybe I missed the memo, what's dead about him?

HumoLoco
09-29-2017, 04:40 AM
Maybe I missed the memo, what's dead about him?


They slowed his jabs. and shorten his distance from the charger.

Vrbas1
09-29-2017, 04:42 AM
Darn?

SwellChemosabe
09-29-2017, 05:15 AM
Well I can't really say I feel too bad for cent players. They were already getting easier to deal with (given that most of them I've ever run into use the same exact method of attack every single time) and with this patch I expect we'll see less and less of them every day. It's kind of like what happened to conqueror; there used to be so many and now i'll be lucky to see even one in an entire day of matches.

Who knows, maybe this'll give cent players incentive to actually start thinking about mixing it up instead of relying on their one cut scene to do all the work for them.

still though, no sympathy here. Pretty sure the only cent mains that aren't worried about this are the ones who don't need the cheese to win.

Howard_T_J
09-29-2017, 05:21 AM
Well I can't really say I feel too bad for cent players. They were already getting easier to deal with (given that most of them I've ever run into use the same exact method of attack every single time) and with this patch I expect we'll see less and less of them every day. It's kind of like what happened to conqueror; there used to be so many and now i'll be lucky to see even one in an entire day of matches.

Who knows, maybe this'll give cent players incentive to actually start thinking about mixing it up instead of relying on their one cut scene to do all the work for them.

still though, no sympathy here. Pretty sure the only cent mains that aren't worried about this are the ones who don't need the cheese to win.

The only good ones I encounter..... are in Ranked Duels! Cents are great 1v1 Characters. Everything thinks they shine in 4v4. But I literally just Storm Rush/ Top light combo them to death. Because they're far to aggressive of a character to take on more than one successfully unless they are that good. (Yes I use the cheap tactic of sitting outside the fight waiting for them to make a move so I can storm rush, Top combo them)

HumoLoco
09-29-2017, 05:27 AM
Well I can't really say I feel too bad for cent players. They were already getting easier to deal with (given that most of them I've ever run into use the same exact method of attack every single time) and with this patch I expect we'll see less and less of them every day. It's kind of like what happened to conqueror; there used to be so many and now i'll be lucky to see even one in an entire day of matches.

Who knows, maybe this'll give cent players incentive to actually start thinking about mixing it up instead of relying on their one cut scene to do all the work for them.

still though, no sympathy here. Pretty sure the only cent mains that aren't worried about this are the ones who don't need the cheese to win.



Nah. Dont feel too bad for centurion players.

the nerf centurion is still op in the precision. I just try out on him. I like it pretty better than last time.

S0Mi_xD
09-29-2017, 05:56 AM
Why should we feel bad for cent players?
This wasn't really a nerf, just balance :D

Jab was guaranteed after a 500 ms 25 dmg heavy attack, that would guarantee an additional light attack.

Means, if you manage to block his first heavy - 600 ms (still 5 chip dmg), second one hits, 25 dmg + guaranteed jab = stamina dmg + a light attack = 45 dmg for button mashing, if your opponent isn't actually a parry god and manages to parry 500-600 ms attacks easy.

The distance nerfs won't affect him, only the extreme tracking even if you dodge him right.

Jab not wallsplatting !!!!! Finally no cheese.

He has still his 60 dmg wall combo, more than most char get (maybe the highest), also don't forget the stamina dmg, he can still OOS you easier with it than other heroes.


People who know how to mix up and play the game won't feel those changes.
But many people won't get frustrated in fights against a wall banger cent.

With def meta patches, also his light parry punish will be gone and easy GBs for every hero ^^

brashtralas
09-29-2017, 06:41 AM
Why should we feel bad for cent players?
This wasn't really a nerf, just balance :D

Jab was guaranteed after a 500 ms 25 dmg heavy attack, that would guarantee an additional light attack.

Means, if you manage to block his first heavy - 600 ms (still 5 chip dmg), second one hits, 25 dmg + guaranteed jab = stamina dmg + a light attack = 45 dmg for button mashing, if your opponent isn't actually a parry god and manages to parry 500-600 ms attacks easy.

The distance nerfs won't affect him, only the extreme tracking even if you dodge him right.

Jab not wallsplatting !!!!! Finally no cheese.

He has still his 60 dmg wall combo, more than most char get (maybe the highest), also don't forget the stamina dmg, he can still OOS you easier with it than other heroes.


People who know how to mix up and play the game won't feel those changes.
But many people won't get frustrated in fights against a wall banger cent.

With def meta patches, also his light parry punish will be gone and easy GBs for every hero ^^

My question is, why did this take so long? What did this change in 4v4? What exactly required sooooooo much deliberation to ensure they “don’t overdo it,” when he just got a flat nerf like any other character?

Centurion will still have all the same problems in 1v1, and still be a problem in 4v4.

This is just quite underwhelming, and a rework would be far better. Remove the eagles talon combo and replace it. Remove pin attacks and replace them.

And while you’re at it, quit adding so many unblockable to the new characters.

S0Mi_xD
09-29-2017, 07:09 AM
My question is, why did this take so long? What did this change in 4v4? What exactly required sooooooo much deliberation to ensure they “don’t overdo it,” when he just got a flat nerf like any other character?

Centurion will still have all the same problems in 1v1, and still be a problem in 4v4.

This is just quite underwhelming, and a rework would be far better. Remove the eagles talon combo and replace it. Remove pin attacks and replace them.

And while you’re at it, quit adding so many unblockable to the new characters.

I don't know why such small changes took so long, and I don't really want an honest answer, because it would definitely disappoint me.
Centurion still feels bit out of place, but it's getting better ^^

I am happy with those changes, and also people who had the illusion those nerfs to Warlords head butt and the dodge recovery where the reasons why "high lvl player" put him into bottom tier after that, with reverting the head butt delay and and a slightly better recovery they calmed those whiners bit.

I am afraid about shinobi now, he was a strong hero from the beginning, and in the right hands it was really hard to get them.
But also I am happy for shinobi, to not be one-shotted for single mistakes.

SwellChemosabe
09-29-2017, 07:23 AM
I don't know why such small changes took so long, and I don't really want an honest answer, because it would definitely disappoint me.
Centurion still feels bit out of place, but it's getting better ^^

I am happy with those changes, and also people who had the illusion those nerfs to Warlords head butt and the dodge recovery where the reasons why "high lvl player" put him into bottom tier after that, with reverting the head butt delay and and a slightly better recovery they calmed those whiners bit.

I am afraid about shinobi now, he was a strong hero from the beginning, and in the right hands it was really hard to get them.
But also I am happy for shinobi, to not be one-shotted for single mistakes.

Highlander Celtic Curse on unprepared, inexperienced or simply unsuspecting shinobi = instakill. Always feel a little bad when it happens but i'd be lying if I said I don't chuckle a little bit everytime it happens lol

S0Mi_xD
09-29-2017, 07:32 AM
Highlander Celtic Curse on unprepared, inexperienced or simply unsuspecting shinobi = instakill. Always feel a little bad when it happens but i'd be lying if I said I don't chuckle a little bit everytime it happens lol

Heh, I know those mixed feeling xD.

Always feel like this if someone can't get my berserker top heavy managed.

kweassa1
09-29-2017, 07:37 AM
Because "balance" in PvP games really has nothing to do with how many people are ranting about it, and any development team needs an absolute certainty to act upon changes.

Contrary to what people believe, "balance" ain't democracy. The demographics of gameplay skill always take on a very sharp "thorn" pattern, where in my personal estimate I put around 70% of a game's population at "beginner" levels, at best maybe 20% of the people at "intermediate" level, and less than 10% being someone we can really call "skilled".

There's really no way to put it nicely. Most people raving about certain stuff in these forums don't even know what they're talking about.

"Balance" is a "tendency" and not a rule set in stone -- where (IMO) around 60% of the game is decided through initial balance differences, but still a big, hefty chunk of 40% being influenced by the player. For example, the "tendency" cannot be questioned that statistically speaking the (pre-nerf) Warlord is the strongest class in the game, and the odds are if a fight happens, he would win. Many records of tournament winners support this "tendency". But does that mean every Warlord always wins in every match that happens in the game? Does one always lose to every Warlord he meets regardless of skill level? Does one lose to someone using a Warlord that just began the game yesterday?

Of course not. When you fight a "stronger" class with an "inferior" class your odds of winning are impacted toward the negative, and therefore it falls under your human factor to offset that disadvantage. Old-school PvPers always talk about how people should quit complaining and practice more, not because they're all arsehats, but because in all practicality this is the more effective and productive method to handle the situation by far.

People can choose to sit on their arses and whine and complain about fixes that may or may not ever come, or, they can choose to accept the reality at hand and do something about it. If the other guy uses a stronger class, you always have an option to become a superior player than the other guy to offset that disadvantage... which usually requires practice and determination.

Both, unfortunately, are what people in these forums are usually devoid of. At least the whiney bunch anyways.

SwellChemosabe
09-29-2017, 08:13 AM
Because "balance" in PvP games really has nothing to do with how many people are ranting about it, and any development team needs an absolute certainty to act upon changes.

Contrary to what people believe, "balance" ain't democracy. The demographics of gameplay skill always take on a very sharp "thorn" pattern, where in my personal estimate I put around 70% of a game's population at "beginner" levels, at best maybe 20% of the people at "intermediate" level, and less than 10% being someone we can really call "skilled".

There's really no way to put it nicely. Most people raving about certain stuff in these forums don't even know what they're talking about.

"Balance" is a "tendency" and not a rule set in stone -- where (IMO) around 60% of the game is decided through initial balance differences, but still a big, hefty chunk of 40% being influenced by the player. For example, the "tendency" cannot be questioned that statistically speaking the (pre-nerf) Warlord is the strongest class in the game, and the odds are if a fight happens, he would win. Many records of tournament winners support this "tendency". But does that mean every Warlord always wins in every match that happens in the game? Does one always lose to every Warlord he meets regardless of skill level? Does one lose to someone using a Warlord that just began the game yesterday?

Of course not. When you fight a "stronger" class with an "inferior" class your odds of winning are impacted toward the negative, and therefore it falls under your human factor to offset that disadvantage. Old-school PvPers always talk about how people should quit complaining and practice more, not because they're all arsehats, but because in all practicality this is the more effective and productive method to handle the situation by far.

People can choose to sit on their arses and whine and complain about fixes that may or may not ever come, or, they can choose to accept the reality at hand and do something about it. If the other guy uses a stronger class, you always have an option to become a superior player than the other guy to offset that disadvantage... which usually requires practice and determination.

Both, unfortunately, are what people in these forums are usually devoid of. At least the whiney bunch anyways.

^This. There's more than one thread where this kind of explanation comes to light but it seems to be ignored. Agreed though, very well said.

I know i'm guilty of ranting at least once (if not twice) about the centurion myself on this forum, but at some point I decided to take the advice from everyone who told me I was just playing bad, took what they said on how to improve, and you know what....it worked. Centurions aren't as big of a problem as they used to be and it gets a little easier every time I face one.

Practice can go a long way.

SwellChemosabe
09-29-2017, 08:16 AM
Heh, I know those mixed feeling xD.

Always feel like this if someone can't get my berserker top heavy managed.

Well hey, at least he might actually be an opponent worth taking seriously now.

some heroes I come up against and my immediate reaction is "Whoa there big fella! come to papa, lets see what you got."

Most shinobi players it's more along the lines of "get out of here you little ****! i'm trying to kill someone!"

S0Mi_xD
09-29-2017, 08:29 AM
Because "balance" in PvP games really has nothing to do with how many people are ranting about it, and any development team needs an absolute certainty to act upon changes.

Contrary to what people believe, "balance" ain't democracy. The demographics of gameplay skill always take on a very sharp "thorn" pattern, where in my personal estimate I put around 70% of a game's population at "beginner" levels, at best maybe 20% of the people at "intermediate" level, and less than 10% being someone we can really call "skilled".

There's really no way to put it nicely. Most people raving about certain stuff in these forums don't even know what they're talking about.

"Balance" is a "tendency" and not a rule set in stone -- where (IMO) around 60% of the game is decided through initial balance differences, but still a big, hefty chunk of 40% being influenced by the player. For example, the "tendency" cannot be questioned that statistically speaking the (pre-nerf) Warlord is the strongest class in the game, and the odds are if a fight happens, he would win. Many records of tournament winners support this "tendency". But does that mean every Warlord always wins in every match that happens in the game? Does one always lose to every Warlord he meets regardless of skill level? Does one lose to someone using a Warlord that just began the game yesterday?

Of course not. When you fight a "stronger" class with an "inferior" class your odds of winning are impacted toward the negative, and therefore it falls under your human factor to offset that disadvantage. Old-school PvPers always talk about how people should quit complaining and practice more, not because they're all arsehats, but because in all practicality this is the more effective and productive method to handle the situation by far.

People can choose to sit on their arses and whine and complain about fixes that may or may not ever come, or, they can choose to accept the reality at hand and do something about it. If the other guy uses a stronger class, you always have an option to become a superior player than the other guy to offset that disadvantage... which usually requires practice and determination.

Both, unfortunately, are what people in these forums are usually devoid of. At least the whiney bunch anyways.


^This. There's more than one thread where this kind of explanation comes to light but it seems to be ignored. Agreed though, very well said.

I know i'm guilty of ranting at least once (if not twice) about the centurion myself on this forum, but at some point I decided to take the advice from everyone who told me I was just playing bad, took what they said on how to improve, and you know what....it worked. Centurions aren't as big of a problem as they used to be and it gets a little easier every time I face one.

Practice can go a long way.

Exactly :) ... well spoken.

As if a "pro player" is pro as soon he starts to play. Those who practice a lot and practice the right things, will succeed much faster.


Well hey, at least he might actually be an opponent worth taking seriously now.

some heroes I come up against and my immediate reaction is "Whoa there big fella! come to papa, lets see what you got."

Most shinobi players it's more along the lines of "get out of here you little ****! i'm trying to kill someone!"

Worth taking serious in even not that much skilled hands.

DrinkinMyStella
09-29-2017, 09:05 AM
they have nerfed him into the ground the kick no longer stuns and you cannot wall splat and can't get stun locked and his eagle talon takes nearly double the stamina, in 1v1 he will be rubbish but in 4v4 he should be fairly balanced.

Tundra 793
09-29-2017, 09:27 AM
Gotta admit, I've got zero sympathy for Cent mains. Like I had zero sympathy for the Warlord mains last patch.

I've only ever mained 2 characters; Berserker and Highlander. Neither hero has ever been better than mediocre/average, the Berserker in particular has been neglected for months, and the Highlander could use a bit of attention as well.
Both heroes are also quite hard to play.

Even so, I've persevered. I've always had to work harder with these characters and I just accepted their shortcomings and ingrained difficulty level because those were the heroes I wanted to play.

So when people start complaining that their Cents and Warlords might not be the absolute powerhouses they have been since they launched for a little while, I almost can't believe it.
The Centurion in particular has had such an outspoken and polarizing effect on the entire For Honor community, and as far as I can tell, most people agreed he was just not fun to play against. And he's been this way since day 1.

Lets have him be a bit weaker for at least 1 week, good grief. Kensei mains have suffered longer than that, if they can endure, so can Cent mains.

S0Mi_xD
09-29-2017, 10:07 AM
Gotta admit, I've got zero sympathy for Cent mains. Like I had zero sympathy for the Warlord mains last patch.

I've only ever mained 2 characters; Berserker and Highlander. Neither hero has ever been better than mediocre/average, the Berserker in particular has been neglected for months, and the Highlander could use a bit of attention as well.
Both heroes are also quite hard to play.

Even so, I've persevered. I've always had to work harder with these characters and I just accepted their shortcomings and ingrained difficulty level because those were the heroes I wanted to play.

So when people start complaining that their Cents and Warlords might not be the absolute powerhouses they have been since they launched for a little while, I almost can't believe it.
The Centurion in particular has had such an outspoken and polarizing effect on the entire For Honor community, and as far as I can tell, most people agreed he was just not fun to play against. And he's been this way since day 1.

Lets have him be a bit weaker for at least 1 week, good grief. Kensei mains have suffered longer than that, if they can endure, so can Cent mains.

Agree with you.

But Cent isn't done yet, he has another balance problem (where I don't understand why they didn't fix it already).
His lvl 2 feat haymaker, gives him 10 dmg for every fart, literally!
A passive ability that gives him ridiculous dmg. (also a point of complaint in the community)

For all melee attack and throws. Thats why there still some people complain about his high dmg in 4v4.

They could have set the feat to lvl 3 and reduce the dmg to 5.

(But nerfing lvl 4 feat Berserker is fine, even if no-one complaint about it ;D)

SangLong524
09-29-2017, 10:12 AM
Because "balance" in PvP games really has nothing to do with how many people are ranting about it, and any development team needs an absolute certainty to act upon changes.

Contrary to what people believe, "balance" ain't democracy. The demographics of gameplay skill always take on a very sharp "thorn" pattern, where in my personal estimate I put around 70% of a game's population at "beginner" levels, at best maybe 20% of the people at "intermediate" level, and less than 10% being someone we can really call "skilled".

There's really no way to put it nicely. Most people raving about certain stuff in these forums don't even know what they're talking about.

"Balance" is a "tendency" and not a rule set in stone -- where (IMO) around 60% of the game is decided through initial balance differences, but still a big, hefty chunk of 40% being influenced by the player. For example, the "tendency" cannot be questioned that statistically speaking the (pre-nerf) Warlord is the strongest class in the game, and the odds are if a fight happens, he would win. Many records of tournament winners support this "tendency". But does that mean every Warlord always wins in every match that happens in the game? Does one always lose to every Warlord he meets regardless of skill level? Does one lose to someone using a Warlord that just began the game yesterday?

Of course not. When you fight a "stronger" class with an "inferior" class your odds of winning are impacted toward the negative, and therefore it falls under your human factor to offset that disadvantage. Old-school PvPers always talk about how people should quit complaining and practice more, not because they're all arsehats, but because in all practicality this is the more effective and productive method to handle the situation by far.

People can choose to sit on their arses and whine and complain about fixes that may or may not ever come, or, they can choose to accept the reality at hand and do something about it. If the other guy uses a stronger class, you always have an option to become a superior player than the other guy to offset that disadvantage... which usually requires practice and determination.

Both, unfortunately, are what people in these forums are usually devoid of. At least the whiney bunch anyways.

true. But i feel your logic fell on deaf ears, as usual.
besides "get good" and such, whiners have already defeated themselves halfway with these defeatist attitude. They may think it's anger or rage at "unbalanced" to mask their own raging inferior complex. "git gud" alone to help their competence isn't enough, i think. Losers just have to reduce their own self-defeating tendency of theirs. Basically, whine less, fight more.

DrinkinMyStella
09-29-2017, 10:39 AM
only time will tell if this nerf was a good one or if its too far or not enough especially with the new meta changes, I think he will go from god tier to low tier once the changes come. With warlord they have changed his nerf back to what it was before so they could do that to cent if he's to bad.

Lyskir
09-29-2017, 11:48 AM
Gotta admit, I've got zero sympathy for Cent mains. Like I had zero sympathy for the Warlord mains last patch.

I've only ever mained 2 characters; Berserker and Highlander. Neither hero has ever been better than mediocre/average, the Berserker in particular has been neglected for months, and the Highlander could use a bit of attention as well.
Both heroes are also quite hard to play.

Even so, I've persevered. I've always had to work harder with these characters and I just accepted their shortcomings and ingrained difficulty level because those were the heroes I wanted to play.

So when people start complaining that their Cents and Warlords might not be the absolute powerhouses they have been since they launched for a little while, I almost can't believe it.
The Centurion in particular has had such an outspoken and polarizing effect on the entire For Honor community, and as far as I can tell, most people agreed he was just not fun to play against. And he's been this way since day 1.

Lets have him be a bit weaker for at least 1 week, good grief. Kensei mains have suffered longer than that, if they can endure, so can Cent mains.

this

Aarpian
09-29-2017, 01:07 PM
Well I can't really say I feel too bad for cent players. They were already getting easier to deal with (given that most of them I've ever run into use the same exact method of attack every single time) and with this patch I expect we'll see less and less of them every day. It's kind of like what happened to conqueror; there used to be so many and now i'll be lucky to see even one in an entire day of matches.

Who knows, maybe this'll give cent players incentive to actually start thinking about mixing it up instead of relying on their one cut scene to do all the work for them.

still though, no sympathy here. Pretty sure the only cent mains that aren't worried about this are the ones who don't need the cheese to win.

You might have a point if not for the fact that they nerfed everything except his "cutscene" wall-throw/light-parry-punish. If anything, you're going to see even more of it.

Netcode_err_404
09-29-2017, 03:21 PM
The cent is not dead, the cent players however...

brashtralas
09-29-2017, 05:09 PM
You might have a point if not for the fact that they nerfed everything except his "cutscene" wall-throw/light-parry-punish. If anything, you're going to see even more of it.

See? We can agree on something. My problem with this whole deal is that they changed everything except the one thing that need changed the most.

So the centurion still has his majorly imbalanced strength in both 1v1 and 4v4, but now his weaknesses are greater.

So the centurion was already pretty weak outside his two big combos, everyone complained about those two big combos, now they’ve nerfed everything but those combos, and the disparity between his strengths and weaknesses are even greater.

This only results in centurions that turtle more and gank more. I don’t think this warranted such a long wait to be “balanced,” and I don’t think this will fix any problems(though I agree that the stamina damage was too high).

frewbear
09-29-2017, 05:30 PM
Hahaha, awww Cent players are weepy. Should have spent your time practicing on legitimate characters instead of abusing broken mechanics. 0 sympathy. Go on to the next exploit character. Or quit. No one cares really.

UbiInsulin
09-29-2017, 06:51 PM
You might have a point if not for the fact that they nerfed everything except his "cutscene" wall-throw/light-parry-punish. If anything, you're going to see even more of it.

We'll see what happens once the update goes through, but I'll make note of this concern and send it to the team.

Vrbas1
09-29-2017, 07:56 PM
His stamina pool needs to be drastically lower.... it's a joke his "give to get" ratio is.