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View Full Version : Valkyrie Shoulder Pin Buff



S0Mi_xD
09-28-2017, 04:44 AM
A great buff for shoulder pin would be, a throw after the pin - you already stuck with the spear in the enemy, so this would be a good follow up.

If you manage to pin down an enemy, you can use a quick throw (the window should be strict)

So you would need to make a direction input in the exact moment the shoulder pin hits the enemy, so you can throw him.
If you miss the input or do no direction input - no throw happens.
But therefor bleed should be lowered.

Because shoulder pin is blockable this would be a "high risk high reward"- move.

Possible Rewards are

1. Let's assume it's 20 bleed, you get the throw into a wall, means a heavy more = 20 bleed + 25 dmg = 45 total dmg
2. 20 bleed + spearsweep after the throw, means also a heavy = 45 total dmg.
3. 20 bleed + throw in to OOS = 68 dmg + 20 = 88 dmg

ChampionRuby50g
09-28-2017, 06:14 AM
I agree, this would be a great buff and does make sense. Valk is in need of some loving, and this would help.

S0Mi_xD
09-28-2017, 07:50 AM
I agree, this would be a great buff and does make sense. Valk is in need of some loving, and this would help.

I thought about a way, that would make sense, the throw would fit very well and it would give the safe spear sweep after a throw a reason to be used, because actually to use it after a a GB is stupid, and a waste of time and stamina - you get a heavy anyways from a GB.
But maybe those 20 bleed would be still bit hight - depends on how easy/hard the throw afterwards is done.

I think, a this shoulder pin quick throw and a light - heavy - light chain would make her great, especially after the def meta patch.

DrinkinMyStella
09-28-2017, 09:49 AM
I agree, I have my valk at rep 10 and stopped using her months ago because although she has quick lights and a good mix up she quite weak and can be stopped and punished easily, free GB on any dash attack if blocked, sweep takes ages to recover, missed shield bash recovery too long and get a GB. Valk needs some love.

My.Insanity
09-28-2017, 10:02 AM
I like the idea.. with the Defensive Meta changes in mind it would be absolut awesome... in the current state I never use Shoulder Pin... too much risk for nearly nothing and Parry is much more rewarding. My question would still be... need it to be blockable? I mean the timing for the Pin is very strict and if you are too late you will throw out a mindless Heavy which could get you punished hard... also if the timing for the quick throw is very strict too it would be much effort for an attack which could get blocked.

S0Mi_xD
09-28-2017, 10:35 AM
I like the idea.. with the Defensive Meta changes in mind it would be absolut awesome... in the current state I never use Shoulder Pin... too much risk for nearly nothing and Parry is much more rewarding. My question would still be... need it to be blockable? I mean the timing for the Pin is very strict and if you are too late you will throw out a mindless Heavy which could get you punished hard... also if the timing for the quick throw is very strict too it would be much effort for an attack which could get blocked.

The point is,
- it is easier to do than a deflect (the window is 3 times bigger, it is a superior block)
- after the sup block, you can also get a free GB instead of a shoulder pin.
-> that means you have 2 options, a safe GB or a not-safe shoulder pin with a potential high amount of dmg

If you would guarantee the shoulder pin, there would be no balance between those both possibilities.
You could go every time for a safe dmg with shoulder pin.

If you are to late with the heavy, or it gets blocked, you can still hard feint it or soft feint into a shield bash, it can be a small buffer to safe you and is a way, to continue your mix ups.
The Shieldbash recovery can be skipped by a light attack as far as I know it (at least it works for me)(if it isn't the case, then it should be, because the shield bash gives you no free dmg etc. and being punished hard for such a move is to much).

Strict timing doesn't mean, that it should be impossible, but also not an easy free dmg.
It should be an addition, where you need to figure out the timing, and practice it.

That's a thing you need to consider, if you want to balance a move - it needs advantages and disadvantages.
Current Shoulder pin is completely under balanced, the safe GB from the sup block is worth much more, also multiple shoulder pins do not stack the bleed.

That's why the quick throw would fit well, especially with the safe spear sweep after a throw, that normally isn't worth using because you get a heavy anyways from a GB.

Like I said - high risk high reward. Do not use the shoulder pin so often, go for things your enemy wouldn't expect, to stay unpredictable be that much predictable and use it when you think it would work - that's the essence of a fighting game.

As an example, when I use the shoulder pin, I do sometimes chancel it into a shoulder bash BEFOR the shoulder pin hits the enemy.
Then i maybe go for a GB instead of shoulder pin, and on the third is maybe a shoulder pin.
It needs to look like you throw them out randomly.

UbiNoty
09-29-2017, 01:02 AM
We've brought up the issues with Valkyrie's shoulder pin to the team and we'll try to see if we can get some response on it from them.

Halvtand
09-29-2017, 02:43 PM
Well, either something like this, or a shield bash (making this move work almost exactly like Centurion's Heavy Pin - Charged Jab.

Either way, This move is used so rarely because of the risk and reward are so unbalanced, so something should be done.

S0Mi_xD
09-29-2017, 05:40 PM
Well, either something like this, or a shield bash (making this move work almost exactly like Centurion's Heavy Pin - Charged Jab.

Either way, This move is used so rarely because of the risk and reward are so unbalanced, so something should be done.

That's right - it's not really worth to use it, if you want play valk efficiently.
IF you do a superior block dodge, then better go for a GB.

Or for a parry.

Edit: If I use it, then only for fun.

ELDRIX_
09-30-2017, 01:32 AM
It's a bit off topic, but can someone explain to me, why you can't dodge Wardens shoulder Bash with
Valks Dodge attack?

If I unlock the side dash light I can dodge the sb, because it creates way more space for some reason.
But if I dodge attack normally I still get hit by the sb.

Now the unlock dash light is being fixed....does that mean that we are simply screwed?