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JG53_Gutted
03-06-2004, 04:35 PM
first off i do LOTS of gunnery practice in the QMB when im not online.

usually im in a G2 against a p39.

with AEP im noticing that the ballistics of the mg151 have changed AND it's effectiveness is lower. it was noticeable in my first QMB fight with AEP.

thinking i was going crazy, i installed 1.22 in a second folder to compare the 2. did alot of QMB gunnery in it. p39's were flaming and losing wings left and right from my G2.

in AEP, they shrugged it off even from very similar angles of deflecting, distance, and firing length. only time i could reproduce 1.22 results was to be from near collision distance or got extremely lucky.

whether it was an intentional change or is the result of a bug (whatever you wanna call it), it's different.

hope that doesn't come off as a whine, other than that the expansion is great. just stating the obvious.

----------------------------------------------
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My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)
[/list]

[This message was edited by JG53_Gutted on Sat March 06 2004 at 03:45 PM.]

JG53_Gutted
03-06-2004, 04:35 PM
first off i do LOTS of gunnery practice in the QMB when im not online.

usually im in a G2 against a p39.

with AEP im noticing that the ballistics of the mg151 have changed AND it's effectiveness is lower. it was noticeable in my first QMB fight with AEP.

thinking i was going crazy, i installed 1.22 in a second folder to compare the 2. did alot of QMB gunnery in it. p39's were flaming and losing wings left and right from my G2.

in AEP, they shrugged it off even from very similar angles of deflecting, distance, and firing length. only time i could reproduce 1.22 results was to be from near collision distance or got extremely lucky.

whether it was an intentional change or is the result of a bug (whatever you wanna call it), it's different.

hope that doesn't come off as a whine, other than that the expansion is great. just stating the obvious.

----------------------------------------------
www.jg53.com (http://www.jg53.com)
http://home.sw.rr.com/gutted/gutted_jg53.gif


My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)
[/list]

[This message was edited by JG53_Gutted on Sat March 06 2004 at 03:45 PM.]

VW-IceFire
03-06-2004, 04:43 PM
I think Oleg mentioned that they didn't specifically change anything to the MG151/20. Seems strange and you certainly sound like you've done your fair share of testing...worth looking into. Bugs can arise from time to time.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

JG53_Gutted
03-06-2004, 04:46 PM
it's almost as if the muzzle velocity was lowered.

i find in AEP using almost the same deflection as i'd use in 1.22 my shots would fall short.

and it seems you dont get the destructive power of the mg151 unless you are REALLY close.

so, thats just my hunch. they aren't hittng with the same amount of energy as before, making you correct for it by getting stupid close.

----------------------------------------------
www.jg53.com (http://www.jg53.com)
http://home.sw.rr.com/gutted/gutted_jg53.gif


My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)
[/list]

clint-ruin
03-06-2004, 05:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53_Gutted:
it's almost as if the muzzle velocity was lowered.

i find in AEP using almost the same deflection as i'd use in 1.22 my shots would fall short.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The REVI sights have changed, changing how deflection shooting adjustment works.

I haven't noticed any changes in effectiveness.

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StevenCappu
03-06-2004, 05:53 PM
More Ammo =&gt; Less Effects
Less Ammo =&gt; Good Perfermence
lol
That's what we got,OKL always be...............

JG53_Gutted
03-06-2004, 06:24 PM
its got nothing to do with the sight (only thing that changed is the image it reflects). and i dont even use the circle or tick marks for deflection. i get close (150m and less) and i just do it by feel.

----------------------------------------------
www.jg53.com (http://www.jg53.com)
http://home.sw.rr.com/gutted/gutted_jg53.gif


My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)
[/list]

03-07-2004, 05:21 AM
Hmm, I too felt that the MG 151 was somehow not as potent as before the patch.. it no longer rips the wings with so few hits as before, like the 20mm cannons did.
But then I hit a Spit with a short burst, and he was on fire, exploded shortly after. I wasn`t sure, I didn`t do many tests.

JG53_Gutted
03-08-2004, 03:56 PM
bump

----------------------------------------------
www.jg53.com (http://www.jg53.com)
http://home.sw.rr.com/gutted/gutted_jg53.gif


My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)
[/list]

LuftLuver
03-08-2004, 04:37 PM
Again.

Ammo effectiveness has been lowered ACROSS the board. US .50cals do less damage, and in AEP catastrophic structural failure is much less common.

More often than not, victims will lose controls and nose over into the sea, etc. Seems more realistic to me this way.

JG53_Gutted
03-08-2004, 04:42 PM
oleg has already stated they didn't change anything.

so wtf? it must be a bug.

----------------------------------------------
www.jg53.com (http://www.jg53.com)
http://home.sw.rr.com/gutted/gutted_jg53.gif


My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)
[/list]

VVS-Manuc
03-08-2004, 05:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:
Again.

Ammo effectiveness has been lowered ACROSS the board. US .50cals do less damage, and in AEP catastrophic structural failure is much less common.

More often than not, victims will lose controls and nose over into the sea, etc. Seems more realistic to me this way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder whether the VVS guns are weaker, too ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

WWMaxGunz
03-08-2004, 06:16 PM
Sights and/or guns solutions have changed. I find it easier to make deflection shots but only when I find the proper view angle for any plane. It is a bit weird but for each of the new planes once I find if I need to be in gunsight view or not and also the view angle, I just do much better getting hits.

The damages may have changed in some global way or just seems to. It may be from changing hit patterns, it may be a change to DM's or what the DM's actually mean/get interpreted as (afterall, a dataset is only data till it affects code results).

Have you tried to see if this is the same with other guns in relation to 1.22? I think you have but no harm asking, is there? Maybe you have not spent that much time out of the FW's which is a good thing if you want to be your best in them.


Neal

Cpt_Rio
03-08-2004, 07:59 PM
First that Time Out issue...

Now our 20mm is porked....

Why cant we get a "perfect" game?

LuftLuver
03-08-2004, 10:20 PM
Mk108 is certainly weakened in hitting power. The only thing that is more powerful than previous versions are the UK .303's. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

03-09-2004, 12:28 AM
I notice no change.

...

I tested out an A6M2 against a C-47. I get behind it, let her rip. I see sparks and explosions flying away like July the 4th, and she's not going down.

WTF?

My first impression without analyzing the recording, was that the C-47 was too tough. Either that, or the A6M2 cannon was porked.

So, to test if my perception matches reality, I count the shots in slow motion with a track. One.. two.. three.. I hit only 9 rounds out of all I fired. 8 landed at the wing roots of the C-47, and it broke off.

..

A lot of things are like that. What you perceive may not be the reality. If you indeed deem the MG151/20 be too weak, give us a track where you hit more than 6~7 rounds of MG151/20 on a single spot, and the enemy flies fine.

Otherwise, it's only an empty claim. Just like every other empty claims around like how the P-38 is porked or how the .50s aren't doing any damage.

Hunde_3.JG51
03-09-2004, 12:34 AM
As a dedicated 190 guy I thought the 151/20's were weakened, but after playing for days and many hours on arcade mode I realized that all guns seem weaker, except small caliber mg's (all nationalities), which seem stronger.

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Lazy312
03-09-2004, 03:42 AM
For me both MG151 and ShVAK seem weaker.

wooden planes, iron men

WWMaxGunz
03-09-2004, 04:15 AM
Looked over some tracks of gunnery practice with Arcade set ON. Lots less hits than I thought were going on. Love the arrows but wish I could kill the word balloons.

I want the MG-213 in the what-if planes. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
A nice rotary barrel cannon in the 162, Horten and 262 would really bring modern a bit closer. They had the gun, just not enough time.


Neal