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stylisticsagi
09-26-2017, 08:14 AM
So i didn't play 2205 much but what i do remember was the fun fact that you needed workers to man your farms and factories.
It "might" be a cool idea to have this individually per island as well.
So you would have to build a small town on each island to man the production there.

Off course this requires larger islands but the main part would be that people very loudly made it clear they want complexity.
Sending as much consumption resources along the more towns would be quite a challenge as well as the question how high you want their civilization level to go.
A system like this could easily triple the amount of ships needed but hey complexity reached ;).

AgmasGold
09-26-2017, 01:10 PM
Having per island workers, and having to build and supply a town just for a production island, that may have no other purpose than to produce one type of good seems a little bit pointless to me. If you only had 1 or 2 mines or farms on the island then it's not a problem, but if, as is the case in some late game settlements, you have 30 production buildings with farms on the island, then having to build a town for it, and reducing the amount of space available for production, just seems like unecessary hassle to me.

SirDavidFirst
09-27-2017, 06:05 PM
I think if you have people working in mines or farms where do they come from, you have have villages or towns, sorry that how the world is build. please make it real world. The other thing I would like to say is, can the Islands be of real places, like the map of Ireland or UK, you can ever have a map of germany and so on?

anno607
09-27-2017, 07:39 PM
It was always somewhat funny how only production islands had workers working without 1 ship transporting them between production and the main city island. it can with more village's, this is more realistic between production plants. But it will be more difficult. Let people on the deck of the transport ships?

AgmasGold
09-27-2017, 07:50 PM
Its an argument between realism, and keeping good and engaging gameplay. For me, if I had to build a large town to supply my production island, although it might be realistic, it would be such a hassle and would mean that I would be waiting for x-town to grow and develop, while I really want this production island for my main town. It just adds a longer time towards a goal.

For small production islands, it wouldn't be a problem, but for larger scale, for example, out-sourcing cider from Anno 1404, you could have an island literally filled to the brim with fields. If I had to supply a town for that as well, it would just make that an impossible task. The space the town would take up (it would be pretty sizable, probably would need basic citizen goods) , would take away from the space I would need for the cider. I just think that in terms of gameplay, I would not find it enjoyable at all.

banan1996.1996
09-28-2017, 09:49 AM
I also don't want to build cities on every island but I would like to see the need to transport my workers to the production islands. That would be more realistic and wouldn't add too much complexity into the gameplay.

AgmasGold
09-28-2017, 10:59 AM
Transportation of workers to the island is something I can deal with as well.

iruet
09-28-2017, 03:36 PM
Maybe somekind of boat that takes people too and from those islands :)

ANN0nymity
09-28-2017, 05:20 PM
Yeah so you don't only need cargo ships but also ferries to transport your people around your islands.

To get back to your idea of adding existing islands or places in the game... I would keep it at a minimal. Maybe only for the campaign. Another idea to add this is to remove the typical in-sector neutral merchant like Lord Northbrug and change it to a little sector where there is only one neutral person/city. Like the city New York or Amsterdam, something like that. This is the place where huge harbors are (and a part of the city would be visible) and where everybody can go trading. This island/sector is fully prebuild and cannot be settled. (same principle as Lord Northbrug).

AgmasGold
09-28-2017, 06:47 PM
I think it was mentioned that the campaign is going to be integrated into the normal game, so won't be a separate of maps: https://www.anno-union.com/en/union-update-voting-spotlight-and-qna/ look in "Community QnA : Your questions and our answers" section.

stylisticsagi
09-29-2017, 09:02 AM
Let us not forget that your main island will be the residence of the manager or owners or whatever you like to call them.
Your basic civilization will therefore create more workers needed for production buildings. I never said your should be building a large town on a large production island, just saying you need a town their. And yes it is getting more complex but people want more complexity. I think if the maps are more or less like 2070 space should not be a big issue. p.s. perhaps more late game you could build appartments wich houses more workers on a smaller space radius, idea hmm.
I think this could create even more busier maps in a simple way. Perhaps givven cargo ships more options in how they transport goods you could quite easily take the production island main products, while delivering needed goods for the workers their on it's way back.

It could certainly create the unions us manager would fear when smaller towns shut buisness their and your nobleman/managers will see how they are gonna deal with the situation...
Perhaps setting wages for factories wich increase or decreases the changes of strikes? Anyways i'm going to much off topic right now. But i think this idea would fit perfectly in the 1800 world.

AgmasGold
09-29-2017, 10:45 AM
But how large will that town need to be if its a large production island?

If your system was put into place, the town may end up being quite large if its a large island. If you needed things with a lot of workers, then you'd need a large town - simple as that. I can kind of see the busier world as the main benefit, but I feel like the world would be busy enough without such a system.

stylisticsagi
09-29-2017, 10:32 PM
Towns won't need to be that big. Just let's say one market building wide size to supply workers for a whole production island.
but it can make you wonder to perhaps move your goods around more and not having one big production island but to spread your production.

Anyways it's just a suggestion, i'm sure the dev's will do a good job making a nice sequel.
I can only again repeat myself it is an easy way to get alot of complexity in the game, not to mention custimization and loads of possibilities.

Sir-LogiC
09-30-2017, 08:15 AM
I like OP's thought. The needing of workers was a nice feature. If implemented right it wouldn't affect the game much at all. You start on an island and have some first homes there. After time you start a new island and build a small settlement there. With the new resources shipped to main island you can upgrade those homes.

AgmasGold
09-30-2017, 10:39 AM
A market building-radius wide is still a lot of space to be losing that could be devoted to production.

iruet
09-30-2017, 11:22 AM
I would agree if you would have workersflats, but if that ain't the case, then please don't make a system where people need to live ON that island to work....

Instead I would prefer a well optimised ferry system, so you don't need cities on every island

stylisticsagi
10-03-2017, 12:19 PM
Well off course they could implement the system so that if you have a lower civ level on one of those island because you need the workers they would count in to advance more people to higher civilizations on your main island.

AgmasGold
10-03-2017, 03:24 PM
I just can't see gameplay the benefit of having to build individual cities on a per island basis.

stylisticsagi
10-04-2017, 03:29 PM
More need from moving goods around, adding complexity and realism.
Imagin what the carraiben where if one island was new york and the others where solo farms and factories.
+custimization since you will have to decide how far you want your people to advance in the civilisation three on the other islands.
It would add tons of ways of how to do things.

iruet
10-04-2017, 04:06 PM
Yes, but on the other hand those things need to be fun and not obligate in my eyes :)

stylisticsagi
10-04-2017, 04:09 PM
Transporter ships are not on my blacklist btw.
It could be a more expensive solution then buildign a new town.

OR this would create you will only build additional towns on larger island and use ferrys to small production islands.
Yet small production islands should be satisfied with a fishing yard and 5-10 houses.

iruet
10-04-2017, 04:28 PM
You can always make cities if u want them :)

I don't want a city on all islands ^^

Use a ferry instead,t hat keeps me happy :D

stylisticsagi
10-05-2017, 06:55 PM
ps there is a diffrence if the island sizes are incalculated with the need for extra cities or not...

Olinater
10-10-2017, 11:25 PM
I actually like the idea that you have to build a small town on each Island to house the workers. There should, of course, be a good balance in this since nobody wants to waste time on building a (big) town on every Island. Moreover, it could also add more interesting military gameplay, because controlling the town/village/city/etc. essentially cuts of the workforce from the fields or factories and prevents lenghty campaigns to clean sweep the whole island.
You could also solve the problem of workforce on 'farm' islands by saying that all farmers live in the farm building. Which prevents you from building towns, but it does not give farmers basic needs, (food and drinks) thought you could assume they are self-sufficient in these matters (a well on the farm and some land to grow crops for self-use).

AgmasGold
10-11-2017, 01:00 AM
Your farm argument works for some things, but you would have to stretch your imagination for other situations, like mines and factories. Its a good start of an idea though, maybe having something like them just needing fish (or some other guaranteed-easy-to-produce good, although fish is probably the only one that would work on all islands), would be a start. It would make it bit more of a venture, and a little more expensive to set up a new island.

I am on the "definitely-not-towns-on-every-island" side of the discussion, so the idea above that I have explored would still be annoying for me.

I feel that balancing could be very difficult, unless there was somehow some differentiation between houses in the city and houses on a production island. Obviously on the production island (for balancing purposes, not realism) you would want slightly higher population density, in order to avoid having to build large cities on such islands. Maybe having some kind of rural houses, of which there is a limit for per-island. This would mean that you couldn't build full cities out of them, but they could help supplement the workforce on production islands. You then run into the same problem of balancing what that limit should be, however.

Considering the points above I think its just a balancing nightmare, and, although I think it could be done, I think it would be incredibly hard to pull-off effectively, with the right balance, and to do so without feeling annoying or pointless to at least some of the playerbase. Additionally, although I know some people would enjoy the feature (I think I would as well if it was executed perfectly), there will always be a certain number of people that would hate it, so why take the risk when the current system that is in place works fine and pleases many?

stylisticsagi
10-11-2017, 07:59 AM
because it adds realism and if they implement a theme (workers vs capitalists) then diffrent towns could have major impact on that (ow the small towns are on strike again).
IT also adds complexity and you speak of a balncing nightmare but i disagree.
For another clerification you would not need large towns on every island, just small ones. And it's completly up to you in how much you supply them with.

If we take an example from 1404 where you want to go to patricians as a workforce (wich are already quite advanced most town citizens would do).
One small trading ship from their could supply this town with their basic needs (fish, cider, linnen, they don't need the patrician goods cuz you don't want them to advance to nobleman).
Based that a few goods can be produced on their island takes those alsoa lready away.
It adds complexity and custimization.

for example when you are overproducing on bread you can sell it, but bringin it to another town can maybe give you a bigger tax bonus rather then just selling it.
perhaps an island is only producing one interesting good but your warehouse can passivly buy some consumer goods because the tax bonus from them would be bigger then what you had to pay to buy the goods.
This would suddenly add that alot of players will for a change not only sell goods but also starting to buy goods thus increasing player interaction with one another.
Also since 1404 we have know the ascension rights system where you needed more lower class people to be able to have higher once advance higher.
The people from other islands cound easily be counted in this (just like haveing envoys gave more citizens right to advance to patricians)

I completly understand your fear of some things becomming to annoying but i think a market with 10-15 houses and a church/bar is a limited amount of work.
i am also for ferry networks to supply workers to smaller outposts.
The idea of olinater to have farms inhabti the workers as will is quite a great idea.
Perhaps instead of building a new town they could have a system to hire foreign workers wich doesn't need you to build a town but increased the maintenance (building a town would be cheaper tough and provides extra tax income).
If you then see what possibilities the game would open it is really worth taking the risk.

moryz23
10-11-2017, 06:30 PM
I don't get most of the concerns either. Adding workforce as sort of an island wide resource is pretty similar to power or Eco Balance in 2070. It adds to the complexity while being a very intuitive mechanic. Given that the two mentioned features from 2070 won't be around any more (well, maybe power is already a thing in the 19th century?) it feels like a nice replacement. And even though I haven't played much of 2205 I was never bothered by the requirement to build small towns for workers.

Anno isn't a realistic game, so I don't care whether the actual numbers make sense in the real world. If it was necessary to build giant cities on your production islands simply reduce the number of workers per farm to balance the game. With larger islands in Anno 1800, space should not be that much of an issue anyways.
Add to this a ferry system for those players who really don't want to build cities everywhere or for small islands with just a few production buildings and everyone is fine.

As I see it, the game can profit immensely from this. For instance if advanced processing buildings at the end of a production chain needed skilled workers from the 3rd or 4th population level you would have to think more about where to place such buildings.
It would also lead to "nice" looking industrial cities with large factory districts on the outskirts.

In Anno 1404 I used to build small towns on most of my islands anyways. It was an effective way to farm lots of honor as the game rewarded you every time your city grew in size or reached a new population level.

stylisticsagi
10-11-2017, 09:40 PM
Did not even ttought about skilled workers nice one!
I always found it a bit odd that in the real world raw resources get carried across the world to their factories, rather then having factories where the raw resources grow. Thsi would be a nice add-on!

AgmasGold
10-11-2017, 11:11 PM
morzy23, even in your answer you've talked about stuff that would need balancing :), which is the main basis of my concern. I'll repeat, if it was done well, I'd be absolutely to fine with it, there's just the question of whether its worth tackling such a problem.

Just an example of a small section of a production island (for me at least) from 2070. Most of the time I need more space than this to supply my single city of Ecos (Health Foods take up a lot of space!!).

Tea Production
https://i.imgur.com/lv2UlIi.jpg


Also, in anno 2205, the Workforce was sector-wide (I think), so you just needed one main island with a town, not a small town on every island.

Skilled workers is an interesting idea though, maybe socketable items that get bonuses the longer they are socketed? Specialisation giving bonuses to production or some other metric, maybe an item that increases production eventually results in some form of maintenance reduction as well.

iruet
10-12-2017, 01:43 PM
I like the idea of the skilled workers, but I am against a (small) town on every island. I prefer to only make cities on some islands, and maybe use those citizens on different islands via a ferry system, but I don't wanne build a city/town on all islands, that just spoils the fun for me...

I like the idea of the skilled workers though :)

Maybe something they can add in that event building, as "buff": specialisation for the workforce ^^

Grndpndr2012
10-16-2017, 11:13 PM
I actually love the idea of workers, as much of a pain as it was in 2205, I think it was an interesting challenge! And I definitely think it can be challenging without requiring a whole town for a single resource. For instance, in 2205, I ran a very successful trading triangle between Temperate, Arctic and Lunar, with each one supplying goods that the others required, etc. It only required 3 cities, but it was still complex enough that balancing the resources for each one was a challenge. I, for one, hope that we can keep worker populations, because it challenged me to build an actual, functioning market.

AgmasGold
10-17-2017, 10:17 AM
I think this discussion relates to whether or not workers should be a sector-wide (as in Anno 2205), or an island-wide (suggested) resource, not whether or not we should have them at all. Some people are for the idea of having island-wide workers, but that would mean needing to building a town of every island with production on it, and some people are against it. There are some good arguments and points in the rest of the thread.

Also, there has been a devblog discussing multi-session gameplay (https://www.anno-union.com/en/multisession-gameplay-in-anno-1800/), and the plans for Anno 1800. Bascally, it is planned to have fewer (1 - 3), but bigger (larger maps) sessions.