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View Full Version : The road to balancing the roster



mrmistark
09-25-2017, 05:40 PM
Firstly I'd like to mention that I am a console player, I have been playing on Xbox since the release of the beta and have played a lot with every character. I'm by no means an expert or really above high average at this game cause really my reaction timing isn't what it used to be (eat you veggies kids). that being said though, I'm very knowledgeable in the game and understand the confinements of each hero very well and what they are capable of. Again this is just my opinion and I understand we don't all play on the same platform so we probably won't necessarily agree on some things and that's ok. I also don't take full credit, a decent amount of these changes were whispers in my ear from other threads, I'm just compiling a list, I promise I'm not stealing them and making them all my own 😂 Looking forward to all the thoughts and comments from you all and ubi.

VANGUARD:

Warden: rather balanced in my opinion, if I were to change anything it'd probably be to take away the double light. I know it probably sounds lame, but it just seems kind of dumb. If you want to guarantee a second light why not just up the side light damage? It only helps against shug who really could use some love anyways, but SB into 2 confirmed lights seems a bit too much, one would be fine. Maybe slow the zone down a very small amount.

Raider: run shouldn't do as much stamina damage. He throws you on your butt anyways. That's OOS with one missed GB on top of the already free heavy from being thrown down. In the pursuit of balance, no single move should put a character into instant OOS in my opinion. Everything else is fine with raider I think.

Kensei: Balanced again for the most part, but lacking. They are already fixing this with new moves. I won't harp on this much until I see them.

HEAVIES:

Conqueror: again getting reworked. I again won't say much, other than I feel as though he needs an unblockable heavy. My thought was an option when in full block stance as it is the only way to feint anyways, might make for some good mix up options. We will see how his changes pan out though.

Warlord: slightly slower heavies. Other than that I think past changes were fair.

Shugoki: no extra damage when he doesn't have HA. Honestly this would change him perfectly. It would give him enough to continue fighting through a couple missed trades and make it more interesting. Maybe headbutt recovery for opponent being quicker and pushing them not as far. Light-> headbutt seems to be the only good move being reliably (over)used.

ASSASSINS:

Peacekeeper: hard to tell her placement honestly. Maybe tone down the light speed a little.

Berserker: could use just an opener of sorts. Maybe (hate to say another kick but....) a kick? Let it be soft dodge feintable like his other attacks with maybe a guaranteed light if it connects (would have to see it pan out to commit to the light after words because HA for upcoming heavy, but seems fair on paper to me at least) Other than that he's fine.

Orochi: yet another hard one to place. He feels as though he's lacking something, but an opener seems almost too much for his counter attacker play style. For one, heavy deflect definitely needs to be able to execute. Well start there I guess. I think he really just needs something along the lines of cents soft feint into gb. Something small but enough to push him over hill to balance so to speak that also fits his play style.

Shinobi: man this guy is very underwhelming. Higher health for sure, unitneruptable kick maybe? Man something. Can't even get off a kick for any of his core mix ups. Defiantly should be able to feint a charged heavy into another side ranged attack or ranged GB immediately after a charged heavy feint that acts like a fully charged attack.

Gladiator: pretty balanced, if anything tone down the zone a tad.

HYBRIDS:

Lawbringer: honestly pretty balanced in my opinion. Has good options but none too awfully powerful.

Valkyrie: also pretty balanced. Could use slightly quicker side heavy attacks or top attack (pick your poison) though.

Nobushi: make hidden stance cost much less.

Centurion: the character I've been dreading. I won't even get into it, because fundamentally he needs a HUGE revamp of his kit. He needs a balance between his ridiculous punishes and his sort of underwhelming neutral options. The only things he has going for him when in neutral are the same things that make him too strong during punishes: heavy soft feint into gb, and fast normal heavies. I think to fix him in 4v4 just completely cut out all the extra animation bs with pin and knock down. For all other ideas see the 103473937372 other threads.

Highlander: another pretty balanced character. Lots of options, very powerful but has the need for stamina management to match the moves. If anything speed up his heavies or give them a slight damage buff, not to mention a smidge more health.

FredEx919
09-25-2017, 07:43 PM
Thanks for sharing all the thoughts! I'll be checking back to read through any follow ups.

CandleInTheDark
09-25-2017, 07:58 PM
Honestly I think the damage increase on shugoki balances the fact that he is the only character with a built in health regen and can end a fight with one hit (however risky that hit is).I don't disagree that he needs some love but changing it should not happen without a corresponding change to health regen.

Peacekeeper, they should have started with the lights to begin with, it is what drives her toxic reputation and why people still stream videos using her only using her lights and the occasional dodge attack as a closer. I would want to roll back the damage nerf to her forward dodge and guardbreak (but keep it so the most reward comes from her third stab), slow down the lights and zone, slow down her dodge in out of stamina state, give a little more to her light soft cancel and see what else needs giving to her or taking from her from there.

bmason1000
09-25-2017, 09:46 PM
Berserker: could use just an opener of sorts. Maybe (hate to say another kick but....) a kick? Let it be soft dodge feintable like his other attacks with maybe a guaranteed light if it connects (would have to see it pan out to commit to the light after words because HA for upcoming heavy, but seems fair on paper to me at least) Other than that he's fine.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1725953-The-perfect-plan-to-justify-Berserkers-name!!-(summary-of-needed-buffs)/page4
It's bordering on spam how often I link this thread in berserker discussions. But! I whole heartedly believe in the ideas that went in to that thread and i don't think there's an easier way to put it. I'm going to have to write up a brief yet highly detailed description of at least the melee idea in there and start keeping that on file haha.

mrmistark
09-25-2017, 10:50 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1725953-The-perfect-plan-to-justify-Berserkers-name!!-(summary-of-needed-buffs)/page4
It's bordering on spam how often I link this thread in berserker discussions. But! I whole heartedly believe in the ideas that went in to that thread and i don't think there's an easier way to put it. I'm going to have to write up a brief yet highly detailed description of at least the melee idea in there and start keeping that on file haha.

Thank you for the share! Reading through it most of it looks pretty good! I think the biggest take away I think at least that would be a good incorporation was allowing the infinite chain to continue despite being blocked. That would be a very helpful addition. Is it wrong of me to feel as though this idea should be standard across all characters though except when superior blocked? Imagine your chain never being interrupted by block, the game would be so much better and chains much more viable, you wouldn't take any damage but you wouldn't stop the chain. I also think there should be a standardized dodge movement for all characters except those specialized in retreats, range or a jump in and out play style, but alas, I doubt others feel the same about either of these thoughts. Anyways, great ideas! Thanks for sharing

bmason1000
09-26-2017, 01:32 AM
No interrupt on block as a standard across the cast is an idea thats gotten tossed around a few times, you are not alone at all.

Glad you liked those ideas! s0mi is the king of theoretical berserker physics haha, guys written up a few of those and they're always worth reading.

S0Mi_xD
09-26-2017, 04:07 AM
No interrupt on block as a standard across the cast is an idea thats gotten tossed around a few times, you are not alone at all.

Glad you liked those ideas! s0mi is the king of theoretical berserker physics haha, guys written up a few of those and they're always worth reading.

aaaah (*゚ー゚)ゞ .... stop it ヽ(*>∇<)ノ *blushing*

Always speaking in such high terms of me :3 tzzzzzzz
You guys are helping as well, optimizing those ideas - giving feedback.



Thank you for the share! Reading through it most of it looks pretty good! I think the biggest take away I think at least that would be a good incorporation was allowing the infinite chain to continue despite being blocked. That would be a very helpful addition. Is it wrong of me to feel as though this idea should be standard across all characters though except when superior blocked? Imagine your chain never being interrupted by block, the game would be so much better and chains much more viable, you wouldn't take any damage but you wouldn't stop the chain. I also think there should be a standardized dodge movement for all characters except those specialized in retreats, range or a jump in and out play style, but alas, I doubt others feel the same about either of these thoughts. Anyways, great ideas! Thanks for sharing

Yup, making chains more viable by taking away sup block against light attacks was already mentioned some times - the only problem is light spam and spam in general.

Take a look at this idea I shared a while ago.
It would be a new mechanic to balance Blocking.
It would also support GBs and Parries(after parries reward will be nerfed - so people still have a reason to use parry as a defense)

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1745375-Do-we-need-a-real-Guard-Break

I_loveMemes
09-26-2017, 04:03 PM
Shinobi: man this guy is very underwhelming. Higher health for sure, unitneruptable kick maybe? Man something. Can't even get off a kick for any of his core mix ups. Defiantly should be able to feint a charged heavy into another side ranged attack or ranged GB immediately after a charged heavy feint that acts like a fully charged attack.


yeah shinobi is my second higher rep character (7) i have to say i really enjoy playing him but i reallyyyy hate the thing that you put so much effort and skill to combo some moves to almost empty an enemy's health and then if you do a mistake you're dead with 2-3 hits that's just unfair because ppl have spent time to learn him and they love shinobi (like me) but sometimes is just frustrating dying with 3 hits because you made just one mistake so yeah shinobi definitely needs more health at least 1 bar or 1,5