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karost
08-24-2004, 10:43 AM
Hi, I have some question need a lot of friends who has experience to share a story.

How you manage a defensive tactic when you are along and meet 2 or more opponent going to hunt you down in DF server.


Last night in Greater Green , when mission for 1942 start I select 109G2 after take off and moving to combat area at 3000meter. I spot 2 dot so I start climb move closer .

when I get close I drive to build a speed 500 km/h , that is La5F, they can see me and turn to me, when we pass I pull up 10-20 degree maintain speed and direction and look back two La5F pull up to make reverse 180 and follow me , when my speed reduce to 300 km/h I pull up 180 degree vertical turn big loop try to stay over them , I keep to play vertical energy tactic like this over two min. when I stay over him and have a chance I line the gun sight for deflection 1-2 time , but I'm very poor for use mg 151/20. ( I can not stick to one La5F no make a nice shoot because other La5f will come on my tail) , they can not pull head up to shoot me.

we climb from 2000 to 4700 meter and seem two La5f can reach close to me at same level , so time for playing cat and dogs is over , I manage emergency escape by close radiator and vertical drive 90 degree build speed over 650 km/h and pull level over the top tree heading back to base , two La5f could not found me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So do you have a nice tactic for manage a defensive tactic when you along and meet 2 or more opponent like this , it would be nice if you share here for a new pilot friends can learn and apply to survival on DF Server.

S!

karost
08-24-2004, 10:43 AM
Hi, I have some question need a lot of friends who has experience to share a story.

How you manage a defensive tactic when you are along and meet 2 or more opponent going to hunt you down in DF server.


Last night in Greater Green , when mission for 1942 start I select 109G2 after take off and moving to combat area at 3000meter. I spot 2 dot so I start climb move closer .

when I get close I drive to build a speed 500 km/h , that is La5F, they can see me and turn to me, when we pass I pull up 10-20 degree maintain speed and direction and look back two La5F pull up to make reverse 180 and follow me , when my speed reduce to 300 km/h I pull up 180 degree vertical turn big loop try to stay over them , I keep to play vertical energy tactic like this over two min. when I stay over him and have a chance I line the gun sight for deflection 1-2 time , but I'm very poor for use mg 151/20. ( I can not stick to one La5F no make a nice shoot because other La5f will come on my tail) , they can not pull head up to shoot me.

we climb from 2000 to 4700 meter and seem two La5f can reach close to me at same level , so time for playing cat and dogs is over , I manage emergency escape by close radiator and vertical drive 90 degree build speed over 650 km/h and pull level over the top tree heading back to base , two La5f could not found me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So do you have a nice tactic for manage a defensive tactic when you along and meet 2 or more opponent like this , it would be nice if you share here for a new pilot friends can learn and apply to survival on DF Server.

S!

scootertgm
08-24-2004, 11:01 AM
The LA5F is at home on the deck. it will not do as well higher up.

Also you are faster and can climb better.

It's best trun spped is between 350 and 400kmh (at least that the info from teh squad, if it goes below that speed your G2 will turn inside it. That's why they couldn't get lead pull to shoot you.

Stick to boom and zoom and never let your speed get below 350. Keep climbing if you need to. Thir performance will only get worse the higher you go.

the diving away tactic was a good move, the LA5F cannot dive as fast without coming apart.

F19_Ob
08-24-2004, 11:16 AM
It looks like U did well.
To climb from 2000 to almost 5000m with two La5's trying to get u is in most cases difficult. Semingly U used your advantage in climb and accelleration wisely.
Although u didnt shot them down u kept 2 enemies occupied so your teammates could work without interference. So this way U contributed to the fight.

good job! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2004, 11:23 AM
You fought at 1:2 odds for an extended period and managed to escape.

Guess what? YOU WON.

All you can really hope for in that situation is that one of the enemy make a mistake that gives you a short window of opportunity to nail them, or that one crashes. Then, provided taking that shot doesn't allow the other to get all over your six, you might be able to turn it into a 1:1 duel vs. the other guy.

But, if that scenario doesn't happen, survival is all you can really hope for.

LEXX_Luthor
08-24-2004, 11:46 AM
In addition, La had turn 180 while Fb109 continue onward.

JG14_Josf
08-24-2004, 11:47 AM
Karost,

That sounds like a familiar scenario to me.

On some occasions it has helped me to start the retreat earlier (before the need arises to get low) and drag those guys into the stream of freindly planes. Even if you reach your home base where most of your friendies launch with a whole lot of altitude there remains the chance that you can spiral down at high speed long enough to both stay out of harms way and attract some friendlies to help.

On the decent the friendly ack tends to announce the situation to your potential wingmen.

It also pays to learn how to overshoot the attacker just in case the situation deteriorates quickly.

The safest, highest probability of survival method is, in my opinion, what you have already described.

karost
08-24-2004, 02:58 PM
Thanks scootertgm, F19_Ob ,Stiglr, LEXX_Luthor and JG14_Josf for your response.

JG14_Josf :
I have one problem when a new friends make a wrong tactic by use 109s playing turning (horizontal) tactic with yak , La or spitfire at low lever (below 1000meter) that is very hard to save him when I stay at 3000meter , but every time I decided to fly low to save him , I was shoot down from other opponent who follow my light of gun fire.

then I change my tactic , I stop playing fly low for help , but use hi-speed drive close to line deflection and climb up ( I try to save him as most as I can but I have to save myself too.) and fly around over combat area and keep looking other opponent drive to join ( when he see a light of gun fire below [trap area] )

Only of good 109s pilots friends who keep stay high and apply hi-speed attack the target below.

Ok back to noob defensive tactic, I have some track fire to share to a new pilot who like to study for defensive tactic, hope its can help new friends:

Don't make a mistake (http://www.allthaiproperties.com/bmax/fb/track/gg_011_df_et.ntrk)
This track file I was surprise attack by mig3 while I keep look other IL2 stay other side. Mig3 pilot miss his chance and that will become more fun. IL2 is most danger if I heading to mig3 so shoot IL2 first with very nice deflection shooting 90 degree on the top side. My lucky 20mm hit his motor that make him no power enough to make a combat and was force bail landing. Then I have to playing a long time to hunt mig3 with cunning energy tactic.
Stiglr: this track file is a same story you said, IL2 give me a big window for shoot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cat and dogs (http://www.allthaiproperties.com/bmax/fb/track/gx_06_vertical_energer_good.ntrk)
This is track file this one from the same story that I posted at the beginning of this topic.
Edit: first I found a dot not from 3000meter but 6000meter sory for my bad memory after review track file befor upload.


So anyone has a same defensive story like this, please share here together to help a new friend pilot.


S!

JG14_Josf
08-24-2004, 05:33 PM
From here:

Eastern Skies IL2 guide/tracks by Michapma (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/tracks.htm)

Is this defensive tactic track file:

Scissors (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/downloads/tracks/Scissors.zip)

Karost,

A good wingman does not drag you low and slow. Instead a good wingman does what you describe in the first post. When your wingman can judge relative energy states well enough he can pull along a target without having to turn and burn. That target is often fixated on your wingman making the target nice and steady for your gunnery practice.

Like this:

Setup track file (save target as) (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/downloads/tracks/Setup.zip)

and this:

Good Drag track (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/downloads/tracks/good_drag.zip)

The last one called Good Drag was a little tighter on defense than the other one called Set-up, but Scot kept out of guns range and kept vertical enough to leave the P-51 hanging for me.

Defensive tactics are much more fun with a good wingman.

xTHRUDx
08-24-2004, 08:54 PM
Clouds are my friend.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-24-2004, 09:15 PM
yup clouds are my friends even when the enemie hides in it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif gives me some space to climb up in my bricky FW190 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

anyway dont be fooled tho there are alot of guys who have clouds set at medium detail and thus only see 20% of the clouds in game,i noticed it when i ran to a big cloud with a bad guy on my six and halfway in the cloud my wing was gone http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
i felt pretty stupid at that moment http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://www.hell-hounds.de
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/FW190A6sigHH.jpg
''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

JG14_Josf
08-24-2004, 10:19 PM
Karost,

So far I took a look at your second track file "Cat and dogs" and it occurs to me that you would make a very good wingman.

If someone simply followed you around and gave you some room they would be rewarded with targets hanging in the sky just so ripe for a good bounce.

Your ability to maintain an energy advantage is remarkable.

However, you could get just a little closer before you shoot.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0l0yx/P47c.jpg

karost
08-25-2004, 10:19 PM
Hi, JG14_Josf
Thanks for join you good information and your advice about my track file. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

seem for telling our new friends understand about what is about "energy advantage" not easy. I think energy advantage is "3 dimension invisible advantage" , for me I have to spend almost one years to understand about this knowledge , not like "angle advantage".

now I playing for guning skill for MG151/20 , after spend long time to improve MG151/20 seem this gun is not bad if we know how to use it. very difference from MK 108,

I think MG 151/20 good for shoot with low degree of deflection and know where is a location to shoot in plane's part like engine or wing , shooting at tail or body of plane seem nothing happend.


just wonder one thing when I play my own co-op server and shooting AI P-51 with bf-109f4 with only 20mm ( not mg ) I can cut the wing or knock engine of p-51 so easy not same like when I play in DF server ?

S!