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View Full Version : Was the BF109Z used in action??



Destraex
03-12-2004, 03:20 PM
Is this a tow plane or was it used in action?

I am just wonering whether its a "spice the game up" A/C or actually contributed.

I mean look at the me262 with the huge cannon in the nose I beleive only one or two of those were EVER built.

Destraex
03-12-2004, 03:20 PM
Is this a tow plane or was it used in action?

I am just wonering whether its a "spice the game up" A/C or actually contributed.

I mean look at the me262 with the huge cannon in the nose I beleive only one or two of those were EVER built.

p1ngu666
03-12-2004, 03:28 PM
hm it did see action
<109z>hmm nice hanger this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.... here whats that whistling noise? *looks up* hmm i think thats a bomb
*BANG*
<109z>yep, that was a bomb *dies*

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Destraex
03-12-2004, 03:36 PM
sorry cannot see your pic m8.

Also do not thing the 162 saw more than ONE combat engagement.

fulanito_chile
03-12-2004, 03:41 PM
i find the 109z repulsive jajajaja ugly thing.. did the P-51 times 2 (i forgot the name of the two p-51's stuck togther used in korea copy it?)

"The Chilean Airforce" (FACH) The 4th oldest in the World...

tenmmike
03-12-2004, 03:45 PM
the 109z did not even get into the air ..the prototype was completed in 43 and the flight test was being planned when it was heavely dammaged in a air raid .. it was not repaired in time and the project was dropped in 44

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

JG26Red
03-12-2004, 03:46 PM
HE 162 saw a bit of action, more than one... had a few kills to its name, more than one as well...

Destraex
03-12-2004, 03:48 PM
OH well, guess I won't be using it much then

I wonder where they got the flight data from, I thought Oleg only made planes if he had solid data.

Wasted effort, but will still have a little fun with it

Destraex
03-12-2004, 03:51 PM
If JG1 was the only unit to fly it then their was only one 162 claim made and it was dis-allowed.

Zyzbot
03-12-2004, 03:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Destraex:
If JG1 was the only unit to fly it then their was only one 162 claim made and it was dis-allowed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is what I found about He-162 combat claims;

http://www.vectorsite.net/avhe162.html
[3] HE-162 IN ACTION
โท The first Luftwaffe unit to fly the He-162 was an evaluation unit named "Erprobungskommando 162", formed at the Luftwaffe test center at Rechlin under the command of Oberstleutnant Heinz Baer, a respected combat pilot who was credited with 200 kills.

46 He-162s were delivered to the Luftwaffe in February, allowing Baer's unit to acquire familiarity with the type. That month also saw deliveries of the He-162 to its first operational unit, the "Ist Gruppe of Jagdgeschwader 1 (I/JG-1)", which had previously flown Focke-Wulf 190s.

I/JG-1 was pulled back to Parchim, not far from the Heinkel factory at Marienhe, where the Luftwaffe pilots could pick up their new jets. They began intensive training on the type in March, but by that time the Third Reich was obviously on the threshold of collapse, and transportation and fuel supply was grinding to a halt under the pressure of Allied air attacks.

On 7 April, the USAAF bombed the field at Parchim with 134 B-17 Flying Fortresses. Two days later, I/JG-1 left their demolished facilities to move to a nearby airfield at Ludwigslust. Less than a week later they moved again, flying north to an airfield at Leck, in Schleswig-Holstein, near the Danish border. In the meantime, II Gruppe of JG-1 had moved to the Heinkel airfield at Marienhe to begin trading their FW-190s for He-162s.

* The He-162 finally began to see combat in mid-April. On 19 April, the pilot of a British Royal Air Force (RAF) fighter who had been captured by the Germans informed his interrogators that he had been shot down by a jet fighter, whose description was clearly that of a He-162. The Heinkel and its pilot were lost as well, shot down by an RAF Tempest fighter on the way back to base.
On 20 April, a Luftwaffe pilot successfully ejected from a He-162, though the reason for the hasty exit from his aircraft was not recorded. One possibility is that he simply ran out of fuel. The He-162's half-hour endurance was simply not enough, and at least two of JG-1's pilots were killed making "dead-stick" landings after exhausting their fuel.

On 4 May, all of JG-1's surviving He-162s were formed into a special consolidated "Einsatzgruppen (Special Action Group)", but this action amounted to little more than "rearranging the deck chairs on the TITANIC". On 5 May, the Germans agreed to a cease-fire and the He-162s were all grounded.
From mid-April, I/JG-1 had scored a number of kills, but had also lost thirteen He-162s and ten pilots. Most of the losses were from flying accidents, due to problems such as engine flame-outs and occasional structural failures. The difficulties with the type seem to have been due to the fact that it was rushed into production, not that it was an inherently bad design. One experienced Luftwaffe pilot who flew it called it a "first-class combat aircraft".

Erprobungskommando 162 fighters, which had been passed on to an operational unit under Adolf Galland a few weeks earlier, were all destroyed by their crews to keep the jets from falling into Allied hands. However, JG-1 cooperatively turned their He-162s over to the Allies, and examples of the fighter were then flown in the US, Britain, France, and the USSR.

One British pilot who evaluated the He-162 also praised it, though a second British pilot was killed in November 1945 during an air display at Farnborough when one of the tailplanes broke off, sending the fighter into the ground.
โท The design had some clear weaknesses, of course, such as its short endurance and the fact that the position of the engine left the pilot almost completely blind to the vital rear "six" position. Some sources also state that the back-mounted engine made the aircraft logitudinally unstable, rendering any maneuvers that "threw the aircraft around" unsafe.

However, in one sense the He-162 was remarkable: it was designed and flown in three months, and in the five months following several hundred were built under the most difficult conditions.
favorable to it.

JG26Red
03-12-2004, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Destraex:
If JG1 was the only unit to fly it then their was only one 162 claim made and it was dis-allowed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

huh? i have a old 1970s book that has 3-4 confirmed kills and possible on a few more by He162 pilots???? i will scan it and post it later tonight or tom

dis-allowed? what the hell does that mean? lol

LEXX_Luthor
03-12-2004, 04:00 PM
&lt;CENSORED&gt; to protect poster from embarassment::
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>OH well, guess I won't be using it [Fb109Z] much then

I wonder where they got the flight data from, I thought Oleg only made planes if he had solid data.

Wasted effort, but will still have a little fun with it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I didn't give your name cos if the quote below is any indication, you, like all of us, will look like a total Fool on the board when or after BoB is releaced.

Cossack13:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I believe these appeared because 1) a modeller want to do it and 2) Oleg wanted to experiment with the capabilities of the Il-2 engine so that he could put ideas to work in BOB.

~ http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=519109962
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Destraex
03-12-2004, 04:05 PM
I got it from OSPEYS "German jet aces of ww2

"THree days later Leutnant Rudolf Schmitt of 1.Stafel made JG1's sole jet claim - a low flying RAF Typhoon. It was not allowed, credited to a nearby FLAK unit. And 24 hours after British troops rolled into Leck"

Thats why I said if JG1 was the only unit to fly it.

Destraex
03-12-2004, 04:52 PM
anyone? Or should I not believe Osprey. One thing of note is that Osprey only include facts, and always make sure they let you know if something is suspect.

Zyzbot
03-12-2004, 04:57 PM
Try this link...it has lots of info on "claims" complete with names if you read through the forum.


http://pub157.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm41.showMessage?topicID=2 4.topic

Destraex
03-12-2004, 05:07 PM
Thanks Zyzbot. Looks like two or three kills all of them unconfirmed

Zyzbot
03-12-2004, 05:08 PM
Yes... I bet a lot of real kills went unconfirmed that late in the war...who is really left to confirm them when you lose the war!

Zyzbot
03-12-2004, 05:10 PM
Here is a neat link about He-162 pilot Schmitt:

http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Jagdflieger/Luftwaffe/Schmitt_Rudolf/schmitt_rudolf.htm


From that link:

On 14 (or 15th . dif. Sources) April 1945 ;
the first He 162 were transfered from Ludwigslust to Husum
( or Leck ? diff. Sources ).
On this flight, Rudolf Schmitt met some Spitfires and was involved in the first HE 162 air combat ever.

WarGod5475
03-12-2004, 07:18 PM
if youll search the forums youll find wher oleg found the flight data.

Someones grandfather did all the flight testing and he still had all the paper work from his grandad and he sent it to oleg .... it goes into full detail about how it came about.

Destraex
03-12-2004, 08:06 PM
somebody said above it never flew not even the prototype

Zyzbot
03-12-2004, 08:17 PM
It never flew...check any source you like...you'll get the same answer.


http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/me609.html

tenmmike
03-12-2004, 08:48 PM
i said the 109z didnt fly not the 162

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

FI-Aflak
03-12-2004, 08:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Destraex:
OH well, guess I won't be using it much then

I wonder where they got the flight data from, I thought Oleg only made planes if he had solid data.

Wasted effort, but will still have a little fun with it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Every stat of Bf-109K-4 multiplied by two, of course!

Destraex
03-12-2004, 09:41 PM
Where does WarGod5475 mention the 162?? THe only question about flight data was about the 109Z

""if youll search the forums youll find wher oleg found the flight data.

Someones grandfather did all the flight testing and he still had all the paper work from his grandad and he sent it to oleg .... it goes into full detail about how it came about.""

JZG_Winter
03-13-2004, 01:42 AM
If you find the "grandad" post, you will find it was a joke.

109z never flew

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/clipperr-He111.jpg

tenmmike
03-13-2004, 01:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Destraex:
Where does WarGod5475 mention the 162?? THe only question about flight data was about the 109Z

""if youll search the forums youll find wher oleg found the flight data.

Someones grandfather did all the flight testing and he still had all the paper work from his grandad and he sent it to oleg .... it goes into full detail about how it came about.""<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>HAHA that would be crashes post,it gives him all sorts of pleasure to throw stuff like that out every so often just to see who he can catch

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

pcisbest
03-13-2004, 02:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fulanito_chile:
i find the 109z repulsive jajajaja ugly thing.. did the P-51 times 2 (i forgot the name of the two p-51's stuck togther used in korea copy it?)

"The Chilean Airforce" (FACH) The 4th oldest in the World...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That twin Mustang was called the F-82, I don't know if they copied it from the 109z or not, although I would suspect that they didn't.