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View Full Version : Poll: Please enable "HUD only" view for flyable AI planes



Mispunt
02-11-2004, 08:56 AM

Mispunt
02-11-2004, 08:56 AM

nutt3r
02-11-2004, 09:11 AM
that woulde ba a great feature if they did it but i doubt they will http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

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VonShlagnoff
02-11-2004, 09:57 AM
Like i said before, do it, it would make more people happy than it would upset, and it unlocks an untapped resource of the game. Olegg I can only praise you for IL2 and FB,and your commitment to realism, but not every one plays full reall all the time, and when you have stalls and spins turned off then essentially you are playing with an incomplete fm, so what is the harm in allowing some online servers to rovide a HUD view for current AI aircraft, surly all the time and research that went into the skins armament and partial FM of these aircraft should warrent this, it can only make the game better and improve it for many, as no one will frorce full real diehards to use the aircraft or the servers that they are flown on, it will also give developers some breathing space because people thyat like a wide variety of aircraft will still have somthing to "fly".

Red_Storm
02-11-2004, 12:50 PM
Only if it is an option in the option menu which is disabled by default. I've been flying AI planes for years now in IL2 and they do get boring without the cockpit after a bit, but the "non-realistic" cockpit option shouldn't be enabled by default.

PS. Your poll is rahter one-sided, as in your options you sort of bash the people who vote against your point of view.

JorBR
02-11-2004, 01:22 PM
No. AI FMs are simplified, so...

P.S.: your question is quite biased.

"Never wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

VonShlagnoff
02-11-2004, 01:43 PM
Mis punt cahange the questions in the poll

Mispunt
02-11-2004, 02:15 PM
IF you choose fly an AI plane in the first place you already choose a very unrealistic way of Playing IL2. You choose to compromise on realism by flying a more exotic plane.

And since I am talking about online dogfight servers here this is not about dumbing down flightmodels and ruining your experience, because the server host determines what planes are on offer and you ultimately determine wether you go with that or not.

An Few examples:
Low realism servers: all planes enabled, no stalls, spins, realistic gunnery etc. Just for those who like the arcadey approach.

Medium realism servers: some AI planes (B17, JU88,TU2 or PE2's) enabled for objective based maps f.i. All other realism settings enabled.

High realism servers: No AI planes, realistic settings only.



If you think this is biased please tell me how enabling the No-Cockpit view would ruin the game for you so I can ammend the options. But keep in mind that it's you who decides which server to join.
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@ VonShlagnoff: what questions would you like to see instead?

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VonShlagnoff
02-11-2004, 03:06 PM
I'll let you knowhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I just want as many people to vote as possible

p1ngu666
02-11-2004, 03:30 PM
hs129.....

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VonShlagnoff
02-11-2004, 03:42 PM
How about these:

1)I activley seek out AI servers and I feel that this will enhance my enjoyment of the game, as I am prepared to play with a half finished FM/aircraft in low realism servers.

2)I enjoy the occasional low realism Kill Fest and belive that HUD only view for current AI aircraft will add a new aspect to these games.

3)Although I play full real, as long as the inclusion of a HUD display for AI aircraft does not detromentaly affect my online playing I can see no problem expanding other players choices. After all it is the choice of the server what aircraft they choose to allow, and the player as to whether thay are happy with the supplied plane set.

4)I feel that this is a bad idea for various reasons and I do not belive it should be an aspect of this game.

Mispunt
02-11-2004, 05:30 PM
Thanks for that, I used your suggestions to add some extra options. Unfortunately I can't rewrite the existing ones since people already voted, so I had to come up with new options that would complement the old ones.

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MatuDa_
02-12-2004, 07:13 AM
That's a great idea! I never fly arcade myself but for the ones who do I voted the 1st option. Would make a lot of kids happy and take nothing away from those who like it tough.

IMO a good deal.

robban75
02-12-2004, 07:16 AM
An interesting idea! Would be fun!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

WOLFMondo
02-12-2004, 07:39 AM
Having the HUD view for the normally AI only planes is better than nothing at all.

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BaldieJr
02-12-2004, 10:30 AM
Please fly one of the many flyable aircraft with REAL FLIGHT MODELS.

Oleg has already addresses this issue. Let it go.

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VonShlagnoff
02-12-2004, 10:33 AM
Baldie jr poke off, you fly full real if you want, but a lot of us would like to try this, as the poll indicates. It will detract nothing from your game but it will increse enjoyment for those who want it.

BaldieJr
02-12-2004, 10:57 AM
There are plenty of simplified flight models to choose from in CFS1/2/3. Feel free to be unchallenged there.

PS- This discussion has nothing to do with "full real". Don't confuse the issue.

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VonShlagnoff
02-12-2004, 12:02 PM
Ok then but when a server has stalls and spins turned off and gyro effects and wind etc you are in effect playing with an in complete flight model, so in these servers if the host allows AI aircraft for control why not let the people who want to fly them have a hud view, I play full real as well and sometimes its nice not to.

SeaFireLIV
02-12-2004, 01:06 PM
But AI planes aren`t meant to be flyable. for Oleg to put in a cockpit view would suddenly be him saying they`re meant to be flyable, then everyone would say, "Oleg, the FMs of the flyable planes suck! Whine, whine!"

He`d have to make them proper flyable planes, which at the most isn`t feasible or he hasn`t the time/means to do so.

You guys aren`t thinking straight.

This always reminds me of when you buy an incredibly expensive toy for a kid on Christmas day, but the Kid actually plays more with the cardboard box it came in!

SeaFireLIV...

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Mispunt
02-12-2004, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
But AI planes aren`t meant to be flyable. for Oleg to put in a cockpit view would suddenly be him saying they`re meant to be flyable, then everyone would say, "Oleg, the FMs of the flyable planes suck! Whine, whine!"

He`d have to make them proper flyable planes, which at the most isn`t feasible or he hasn`t the time/means to do so.

You guys aren`t thinking straight.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


We are really talking about a realism setting here, just like no-stalls, realistic gunnery or limited ammo is.
These settings already completely ruin the fine balance FM-wise between the properly modelled planes compared to the full real settings (no wonder the I-153's and ME262's are often banned from less realistic servers for instance).
Funnily enough the majority of players who prefer their dogfights to be unrealistic do not moan about unrealistic FM's.

Personally I don't expect Maddox Games to put much (if any ) substantial effort in IL2FB after the Aces expansion pack has been released. If anything it would be a nice last gift to the realistically challenged amongst us. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This always reminds me of when you buy an incredibly expensive toy for a kid on Christmas day, but the Kid actually plays more with the cardboard box it came in!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nicely said but it holds no ground, because _we_ bought the toy ourselves and are therefor entitled to choose how we play with it.
Wether we bought it for the cardboard box or not.

I feel that this simply comes down to peoples personal perception that adding a no-cockpit view to the already flyable AI planes is a travesty and dilutes the overall experience of how they feel IL2 SHOULD be played.
Disregard that for a moment and consider that the advantages that outweight the disadvantages:

Disadvantages:

"FM whining"
Yes, adding a no cockpit view to AI-fighters will cause some complaints about unbalanced flightmodels from the uninitiaded.
This on it's turn might lead to some people getting the wrong impression of IL2 FB and what Maddox games stands for.
However you can already get situations like this due to the realism options that IL2FB offers as it is.

"Disparity between planes in terms of overall care and finish"
IL2FB already allows for this disparity by giving us AI planes to fly, if one thing it would actually narrow the existing gap _slightly_.

Advantges:

"A truckload of new fighter planes for the arcade crowd to fight with"
These would only appeal to those who don't consider realism to be that important all the time, since the lack of a cockpit and the generic flightmodels will only serve those who are after a Quake style frag fest.
Each to their own I'd say.
For those that do want realism it offers nothing. But then again it would not cause any conflict on the servers they like to visit since these planes would simply not be allowed.


"Some new planes for those who prefer medium realism"
For those people some generic FM's suit some AI planes better than others and might be considered acceptable as an exotic diversion.

"More interesting tactical engagements on objective based dogfight servers"
Combining the benefits of respawning and cooperative play in a single mission structure by offering a limited plane set.
F.i: fly dive bombers and fighter escorts to take out a battleship (Tirpitz?)in a time limited mission.


If anyone can come up with more advantages or disadvantages please do so, Oleg might have dismissed this idea a long time ago but at least it will give us something to argue about until "Aces" comes out. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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[This message was edited by Mispunt on Thu February 12 2004 at 05:04 PM.]

BaldieJr
02-12-2004, 07:42 PM
If you want air-quake, save yourself a lot of time, effort, and cash by picking up one of the MANY arcade flight-sims that are currently on store-shelves.

The FPS crowd just doesn't get it. Go read as many flight-sim reviews as you can, and then think about what you are asking for.

Another dumb arcade game is just what we need.

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ASH_HOUSE_WARES
02-12-2004, 08:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mispunt:
How many of you guys and girls would like to be able to have a HUD only view when flying AI planes on dogfight servers?

I'm not talking about a full cockpit here, just the standard No-Cockpit view instead of the forced external view.

Flyable AI planes might not offer the realism that some of you are after, but they do offer great targets to take out on dogfight servers.
Enabling the No cockpit view on these will make controling them a bit easier.

edit: I added some extra options, hopefully this will cover more opinions on this matter. Unfortunately the order of the options is now a bit messed up because the poll is already underway.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>G R O O V Y!
I would say YES, but only for BOMBERS!! I dont want to have to compete with AI fighters with less than perfect flight models.. But in light of the fact we dont have many bombers to choose from, and that bomber flight models dont have to be all that.. I think it would be great! It would really enable alot of things online that we can not currently do!

ASH HOUSEWARES
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VonShlagnoff
02-13-2004, 01:46 AM
The thing is we are not asking the FPS crowd too get it as it will not change their game at all, and if low realism servers with AI aircraft to fly are so unpopular how come they are always full at peak times? Its not like we are asking for a complete new aircraft, what if it could only be enabled if the realism settings were set low enough? The thing is weather you like it or not people are flying AI aircraft online now, this would just add a little to their game without affecting anyone elses. we are not asking anyone who does not like it to play it are we? If this was to cause delay to another full aircraft entering the sim then I would be against it, but I am pretty sure it would take a 1C boffin maybe a day to do, is that too much to ask? If I am wrong about the work needed tell me and I will shut up.

WUAF_Badsight
02-13-2004, 03:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
If you want air-quake, save yourself a lot of time, effort, and cash by picking up one of the MANY arcade flight-sims that are currently on store-shelves.

The FPS crowd just doesn't get it. Go read as many flight-sim reviews as you can, and then think about what you are asking for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Baldie look at the options for FB

you can have air quake in FB as well

just because you & me always fly with stalls on doesnt mean that it isnt possible to in FB

i.e. giving an argument based around wanting FB to remain realistic is flawed

this kind of option will affect nothing but DF rooms , & as we all know , we can choose by our own self where to play FB or not

attacking people that want this option under accusations of air quake isnt rifght as FB can be set-up to be air quake as it is

plz dont let this kind of request offend your setting preference ideals as if its implemented it wouldnt change how you or i play FB

or how FB operates

all it would allow is for people who are fans on the AI planes in FB to have even more fun with them

VonShlagnoff
02-13-2004, 04:17 AM
Thank you Badsight well said, and from the other side of the fence.

BaldieJr
02-13-2004, 07:07 AM
Calling it "air-quake" is not an attack on anyone. Don't be so defensive.

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ASH_HOUSE_WARES
02-13-2004, 11:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
Baldie look at the options for FB

you can have air quake in FB as well

just because you & me always fly with stalls on doesnt mean that it isnt possible to in FB

i.e. giving an argument based around wanting FB to remain realistic is flawed

this kind of option will affect nothing but DF rooms , & as we all know , we can choose by our own self where to play FB or not

attacking people that want this option under accusations of air quake isnt rifght as FB can be set-up to be air quake as it is

plz dont let this kind of request offend your setting preference ideals as if its implemented it wouldnt change how you or i play FB

or how FB operates

all it would allow is for people who are fans on the AI planes in FB to have even more fun with them<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>G R O O V Y!
Very well put! Some of these primitive screwheads seem to think that options are a bad thing! There are plenty of OPTIONS, not to mention UNDOCUMENTED FEATURES, So what is wrong adding that generic cockpit view for AI planes as an option?

Nothing! Actually in that it would actually be more realistic than the current exterior view!

But *PERSONALLY* I too would not partake in a server that enabled AI fighters!! In that Baldie is right about the flight models not being perfect! But, I think this options would be GREAT for the use of Bombers in the game!! It would really open up some neat things to do online!! Options are never a bad thing!! And agin, noone is going to hold a gun to your head and make you fly on a server that is using an option you dont agree with!

ASH HOUSEWARES
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