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DAC.CaSs
09-20-2017, 01:25 PM
Tryn to make a main valk but all i see is UNDERPOWER char as valk .

i have her rep 11 and still cant see a good combo or anything that she can do . any light block is almoust a free gb from any assasins . a parry against her is like end of the game .

after the shield charge change working as a prediction not as a REACTION IS USELESS . Shoulder pin never ever gona work against any other chars. so all she have is the sweep finisher that can be easly dodge by any other chars. overall useless char .

so the game is focused around "lets play cent and assasins to spam space and that is all " so forgive me but this game is killed more and more by unbbalance and connection issues !

Tickets subited to support "as they say we should do " never get an anser and so on ..

So anyone can tell me why sould we play this game more ???

S0Mi_xD
09-20-2017, 01:57 PM
I don't understand you guys... whining about everything calling every hero trash...
Valk, Conqu, Kensei and now Warlord (just because he can't OOS you in one parry and get a free heavy at the same time)

If you want to OOS in one parry, just parry punish with headbutt followup ... the difference is 15 dmg ....

Valk is still useful, and not every light is a GB on block, only dodge attacks... sure she needs some buffs, but only small ones....

My.Insanity
09-20-2017, 02:45 PM
SoMi... so you can post "Berserker buff Threads" and we are "whining" about our Main Heros?

There are a lot of Heros who need balanceing changes but first the Devs need to fix the damn defensiv meta... which looks like it will take FOR EVER!

I think those posts only help the devs figure out what changes they need to make on a Hero to make him more balanced. (like givinig the Valk a light / heavy / light combo)

DAC.CaSs
09-20-2017, 02:56 PM
I don't understand you guys... whining about everything calling every hero trash...
Valk, Conqu, Kensei and now Warlord (just because he can't OOS you in one parry and get a free heavy at the same time)

If you want to OOS in one parry, just parry punish with headbutt followup ... the difference is 15 dmg ....

Valk is still useful, and not every light is a GB on block, only dodge attacks... sure she needs some buffs, but only small ones....

Since the release the valk is the moust underpower hero in the game . since everyother heroes get tweeks and so on valk have exacly nothing to compare with the top tier chars.

the devs give me reason every day to quit this game . even the players who tweek with the connection and abuse the game ar let alone .chars unbalanced . bad connection , no attention to the community as they all scream from season one for improves. nothing change and nothing will change.

Charmzzz
09-20-2017, 03:07 PM
Hm, I don't know if Valk is really that bad as everybody says. I have faced some very good ones, and I am playing in the upper tier of the game. Someone who 3:0ed me told me that Valk has the most mixup potential in the game and I really experienced that in the Duels I have played with him. Got my *** handed on a plate... Feints into SB, sometimes a sweep, sometimes a GB, I just found her very hard to predict because she has so many options.

Also, calm down a bit. When the meta changes address the parry punish (and we all hope this will change) then all characters who are vulnerable to GB's on special moves in their kit will get an indirect buff.

DAC.CaSs
09-20-2017, 04:00 PM
Hm, I don't know if Valk is really that bad as everybody says. I have faced some very good ones, and I am playing in the upper tier of the game. Someone who 3:0ed me told me that Valk has the most mixup potential in the game and I really experienced that in the Duels I have played with him. Got my *** handed on a plate... Feints into SB, sometimes a sweep, sometimes a GB, I just found her very hard to predict because she has so many options.

Also, calm down a bit. When the meta changes address the parry punish (and we all hope this will change) then all characters who are vulnerable to GB's on special moves in their kit will get an indirect buff.

well i tell you that guy lie to you alot . valk feints ar the slowerst in the game . the fact that you were cought is not couse the char is good. try feint in to any with valk and then faints in to any with a assasin . see the diffrence . also even the heavy chars like warlord or shugoki have better feints then valk . so the mix ups ar not existent at high lvl . even with deffensive chages show me a way to play valk and il do it .she is almoust imposible to execut some of her own kit as is the shoulder pin etc.

Devils-_-legacy
09-20-2017, 04:09 PM
Shoulder pick is her deflect I used to main as a vakl only reason I stopped is just felt like the 2 lights were cheese the shoulder pin is an amazing piece of kithe for her even more so if they have no debuff resistance but everyone has there own play style the parry problem is the same for every assassin/hybrid not just vales and as charms said the only problem is the defense meta after that fix the morjority of the hero's will be balanced just a pain to wait but have hope lol

S0Mi_xD
09-20-2017, 04:09 PM
SoMi... so you can post "Berserker buff Threads" and we are "whining" about our Main Heros?

There are a lot of Heros who need balanceing changes but first the Devs need to fix the damn defensiv meta... which looks like it will take FOR EVER!

I think those posts only help the devs figure out what changes they need to make on a Hero to make him more balanced. (like givinig the Valk a light / heavy / light combo)

Then take the time an look into all my posts... wait - I sum them up for you.

1. Take a look at defense tools like parry - it is not balanced it is "OP (I said those things since release of the game and in this forum since I joined here)
Many people called me stupid, for thinking that parry is to strong. " it is fine, parry is not the problem"
And since months I say, at first we need def meta balance, after that char balance can be applied. Or at least balance with def meta patches in mind.

2. I suggested and "whined" about berserker, because he doesn't work like he should ( before 1.05 hyper armor fix)
Now since then I never stated that he is useless, but I improved myself, adapted to many things etc.
- since his abilities like close combat and cancel attack got useful out of nowhere (I think it is because of time snap removal), I got even better

3. Still he lacks in some things and some abilities of him are not really useful or useable.
My suggestions always where with possible def meta patches in mind, and like other berserker players did admit - those changes I suggest will be only really noticed by berserker players, because they are not game breaking and only fixing the Berserker.

But many other really call the heroes TRASH - UNPLAYABLE - USELESS, thats what I call unreasonable whining about things just because they are not instant killers like Centurion parry punish.

People cry about heroes in a pretty much balanced place (balanced doesn't mean they are perfect an able to kill everything - balanced means they are around the middle, if it is abit below or above is a different story)

People placing warlord into the last place of their "tier list" *opinion-cough*, even if he is still a great hero....

Devils-_-legacy
09-20-2017, 04:12 PM
Don't always agree with somi but 100 % agree ^

DAC.CaSs
09-20-2017, 04:17 PM
Shoulder pick is her deflect I used to main as a vakl only reason I stopped is just felt like the 2 lights were cheese the shoulder pin is an amazing piece of kithe for her even more so if they have no debuff resistance but everyone has there own play style the parry problem is the same for every assassin/hybrid not just vales and as charms said the only problem is the defense meta after that fix the morjority of the hero's will be balanced just a pain to wait but have hope lol

yup the shoulder pin is the deflect but how can you use it since the dodge window is almoust 0 for valk. try to dodge a light from anyone and deflect in to shoulder pin . see if is working :). i can tell you that is not gona work . the only time shoulder pin works is against bots or random lucky deflects . you cant dodge a light with valk. and the havy is a 50% in terms of dodge . she is way too slow . so again shoulder pin is useless . for the swipe you need at least 2 attacks exept the havy cancel that drains almoust all the stamina . so you have 1 combo that may work and the dmg output is lower then any other mix up chars in the game . swipe no dmg , shield bash no dmg . the only dmg income is gb to havy that deals low dmg or swipe in to havy that also deal low dmg .i can go on like for ever. she is the underdog of the game . next to kensei and now warlord who was nerfed to the ground

DAC.CaSs
09-20-2017, 05:06 PM
I'm on for honor now just done the shoulder pin but I will say I've got like 900hrs game time i dont parry anymore i only use deflect but warlord still good just been balanced and I'm not guna say get good but if you asking for a buff make make some suggestions instead of whining like I'm guessing u want a damage increase or Shield bash to do damage buy atm I play as a shinobi so Valk does more damage then me maybe try a new hero if your faints aren't doing anything

mate im in the top 10% plat on for honor :) ur 900 h means nothing . pls dont say anything if you dont know . i dont whant a buff in dmg or any i just whant them to relook at her since is bad as a char :) . dont try to tell me that ur 900 hrs show ur understanding of a char :) .

Devils-_-legacy
09-20-2017, 05:19 PM
Your point I think everyone on the fourm is at least top 10% lol im not the one trying to say she's bottom teir when she's clearly not she's not the weekest hybrid she's mid she's hasn't got a bad kit but your just moaning not stating what you want looked (buffed)

DAC.CaSs
09-20-2017, 05:22 PM
Your point I think everyone on the fourm is at least top 10% lol im not the one trying to say she's bottom teir when she's clearly not she's not the weekest hybrid she's mid she's hasn't got a bad kit but your just moaning not stating what you want looked (buffed)

well since ur brain cant process i dont even bother . dont come to post and pretend to know . is she is mid tier then i will se her in more tours ( not ) . blocked since you ar the "900 hrs"guy and we all who play her and understand her ar low :)

Go sarch a new keybord . i assume urs have no "space' button master of the all and knower of all assasins hybrids and everything:)

Devils-_-legacy
09-20-2017, 05:29 PM
No just a fan of the game annoyed how everyone puts the same thing but doesn't state what they want to changed instead gets annoyed because I don't agree she's trash

Devils-_-legacy
09-20-2017, 05:34 PM
Why don't you try going back to warlord for a bit u have a higher k/d ratio with him

ELDRIX_
09-20-2017, 07:48 PM
Rep 18 Diamond Valk here ( if that means anything)

Valk indeed is the weakest hybrid also the most balanced, but
there is just 1 thing that needs to be changed and that is her light light Heavy chain
which is one of the most obvious moves.
She seriously cant start a real mixups without the second light.
whiffing the 2 lights also is very risky and just looks goofy cause they can just light attack you and
you need to distance yourself every time.

to be frank she needs a light heavy light mixup

Devils-_-legacy
09-20-2017, 08:06 PM
I agree with that I can't wait for the defense meta fix she will be a ideal hero then

S0Mi_xD
09-20-2017, 08:27 PM
yup the shoulder pin is the deflect but how can you use it since the dodge window is almoust 0 for valk. try to dodge a light from anyone and deflect in to shoulder pin . see if is working :). i can tell you that is not gona work . the only time shoulder pin works is against bots or random lucky deflects . you cant dodge a light with valk. and the havy is a 50% in terms of dodge . she is way too slow . so again shoulder pin is useless . for the swipe you need at least 2 attacks exept the havy cancel that drains almoust all the stamina . so you have 1 combo that may work and the dmg output is lower then any other mix up chars in the game . swipe no dmg , shield bash no dmg . the only dmg income is gb to havy that deals low dmg or swipe in to havy that also deal low dmg .i can go on like for ever. she is the underdog of the game . next to kensei and now warlord who was nerfed to the ground

1. It's not a deflect, it is a dodge with superior block property

2. All those who said it is useless and easy to block, only managed to block 1 out of 10 and that is pure luck.

3. Shoulder Pin (the attack after a the superior block) isn't the only option
- you can cancel the shoulder pin every time into a shild bash (even before it hits the enemy)
- you can GB safe after the superior block

4. It has a bigger window than a deflect -> means it is a bit easier than deflects.

I can deflect all zones in game (except pk after time snap removal (I play on ps4)) - Orochi, warden, and pk zone not 100% but around 40%-60% depending on the play style of the enemy.



mate im in the top 10% plat on for honor :) ur 900 h means nothing . pls dont say anything if you dont know . i dont whant a buff in dmg or any i just whant them to relook at her since is bad as a char :) . dont try to tell me that ur 900 hrs show ur understanding of a char :) .

Nobody cares if you top 10% plat - It is just a number.

S0Mi_xD
09-20-2017, 08:35 PM
Rep 18 Diamond Valk here ( if that means anything)

Valk indeed is the weakest hybrid also the most balanced, but
there is just 1 thing that needs to be changed and that is her light light Heavy chain
which is one of the most obvious moves.
She seriously cant start a real mixups without the second light.
whiffing the 2 lights also is very risky and just looks goofy cause they can just light attack you and
you need to distance yourself every time.

to be frank she needs a light heavy light mixup

That's right, she needs a light - heavy - light.
This would push her mix ups extremely.

Also I thought maybe buff the base heavy dmg to around 28 dmg.

And making the shoulder pin safe? Not sure what they thought with this nonsense.

Also the free gb on blocked dodge attacks... also with glad ...
I know, those dodge attack are 500ms and 17/20 dmg but a free GB? why not a Light

Devils-_-legacy
09-20-2017, 08:46 PM
Wondered why you deleted your post but I agree with you but if they change the shoulder pin I think the window should be in line with deflect to balance it and maybe a slightly higher stamina as her mix ups use alot of stamina might just be my gear tho

S0Mi_xD
09-20-2017, 09:04 PM
Wondered why you deleted your post but I agree with you but if they change the shoulder pin I think the window should be in line with deflect to balance it and maybe a slightly higher stamina as her mix ups use alot of stamina might just be my gear tho

Mobile version of For Honor forum -.- ... went back and the message was gone.
Re-posted it ^^

Yeah, maybe you are right :) .. but I don't mind it how it is now, it is better than most deflects

- Gives GB (like zerker)
- or bleed (like PK)
- mix up into shield bash

Devils-_-legacy
09-20-2017, 09:10 PM
I agree its better then shinobis just feel like cheese when I used her got my k/d as 2.7 and stop the hate on psn is amazing lol and the feint(can't spell for ****) I find usefull either mix it to light gb or Shield bash really seems to throw people off

UbiNoty
09-20-2017, 11:02 PM
I believe we should have an update on the rest of the defense meta stuff for you sometime soon.

As for valk, from our perspective, there are definitely areas of weakness that can be fixed and improved - but in terms of relative power she's not doing super terribly. That being said, we are trying to do more hero balancing from hero on out and so I'm sure the team has some plans for valk in the pipeline - so I'll make note of all the feedback and suggestions I saw in this thread about her shoulder pin, since that seems to be the area of main concern.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 03:21 AM
I believe we should have an update on the rest of the defense meta stuff for you sometime soon.

As for valk, from our perspective, there are definitely areas of weakness that can be fixed and improved - but in terms of relative power she's not doing super terribly. That being said, we are trying to do more hero balancing from hero on out and so I'm sure the team has some plans for valk in the pipeline - so I'll make note of all the feedback and suggestions I saw in this thread about her shoulder pin, since that seems to be the area of main concern.

Her shoulder pin is not that much of a problem, there is the point about it, that it is blockable (don't know if this is intended) but therefor it is easier to do then a deflect, also there are 2 other options to do from the superior block of the dodge. (this can be looked into it but isn't the main problem)

The biggest problems valk players have is to have safe mix ups.

Just give us a Light - Heavy - Light chain.
And maybe a small dmg boost for the basic heavy (currently 25 up to around 28)

DAC.CaSs
09-21-2017, 04:19 AM
Her shoulder pin is not that much of a problem, there is the point about it, that it is blockable (don't know if this is intended) but therefor it is easier to do then a deflect, also there are 2 other options to do from the superior block of the dodge. (this can be looked into it but isn't the main problem)

The biggest problems valk players have is to have safe mix ups.

Just give us a Light - Heavy - Light chain.
And maybe a small dmg boost for the basic heavy (currently 25 up to around 28)

This guy have the right ideea tho i still feel that the shoulder pin is harder to do then a deflect . mby is my connection that make the dodge start slower but in the other side i can do the deflects with the assains but i cant get the time for valk . dunno mby is just me but that is how i feel .

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 04:49 AM
This guy have the right ideea tho i still feel that the shoulder pin is harder to do then a deflect . mby is my connection that make the dodge start slower but in the other side i can do the deflects with the assains but i cant get the time for valk . dunno mby is just me but that is how i feel .

Mh.. ok I don't know man :/ can't help you with this.

But just to show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcTllViSvak

Skip to 45 seconds and slow down the video to the lowest option.
You will see, that the indicator will blink very shortly after you the orochi dodges - that is the deflect window.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cli7iKDBZ2w

In this video, take a look at valkyries shield - the golden glow is the full superior block window, I would say it is around 3 times larger.


But it looks like your problem is a different one ... if you say you can deflect with assassins, you also should be able to dodge block with valk ... and the connection shouldn't be the problem.

Try it in practice mode until you find the flaw

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 06:17 AM
Parry is better in every way. Leads to more damage, more stamina damage, it's safer, the timing is easier, and it's guaranteed unlike shoulder pin which can be blocked. I don't get why this is even an argument, the only time you would use it over a parry into gb is on long range characters. Other than that you gimp yourself by using it, it doesn't even kill someone on a final bar for Christ sake.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 06:38 AM
Parry is better in every way. Leads to more damage, more stamina damage, it's safer, the timing is easier, and it's guaranteed unlike shoulder pin which can be blocked. I don't get why this is even an argument, the only time you would use it over a parry into gb is on long range characters. Other than that you gimp yourself by using it, it doesn't even kill someone on a final bar for Christ sake.

I do not rely that massively on parries and practice every ability of a hero.

Soon, parry will be nerfed - no GB, no heavies, and maybe no lights.
I hope all of them, and chars will get a parry punish like warlord instead.

Def meta will be gone soon, then you will need to use other skills.

Parry is better than everything in the game, thats why the def meta exists, turtles, unparrieable exploit abuse.

SwellChemosabe
09-21-2017, 09:11 AM
Parry is better in every way. Leads to more damage, more stamina damage, it's safer, the timing is easier, and it's guaranteed unlike shoulder pin which can be blocked. I don't get why this is even an argument, the only time you would use it over a parry into gb is on long range characters. Other than that you gimp yourself by using it, it doesn't even kill someone on a final bar for Christ sake.

It does seem like it shouldn't be much of an argument but the thing is that the deflect is an option that you don't see a lot of assassin players utilizing that often and so when it is utilized it catches the opponent off guard. Also the fact that for most assassins it leads into some form of absolutely guaranteed hit/stun. As for the guard break, every berserker knows that deflect, when used in close quarters, is basically a free ticket into a top heavy :cool: Never heard a crunch more satisfying than a deflect into guard break, wall splat and top heavy finisher into awesome execution.

and also if you think it doesn't kill anyone you should ask the hundreds of players deflected regularly in that cardiac arrest inducing last minute, last bar of health moment when they realize they ****ed up on a monumental level.

matt89connor
09-21-2017, 09:29 AM
Tryn to make a main valk but all i see is UNDERPOWER char as valk .

i have her rep 11 and still cant see a good combo or anything that she can do . any light block is almoust a free gb from any assasins . a parry against her is like end of the game .

after the shield charge change working as a prediction not as a REACTION IS USELESS . Shoulder pin never ever gona work against any other chars. so all she have is the sweep finisher that can be easly dodge by any other chars. overall useless char .

so the game is focused around "lets play cent and assasins to spam space and that is all " so forgive me but this game is killed more and more by unbbalance and connection issues !

Tickets subited to support "as they say we should do " never get an anser and so on ..

So anyone can tell me why sould we play this game more ???

what i don't like of valk, is that: she suffer GB if she use a light +dodge and this attack is blocked: why? sweep has you say, is dodgable even if you try the delay, the third lights (shield attack) is easy parryable, and..have ever seen a valk who use the heavy of the 3 combo attack (light+light+ heavy)?You know why not? because the second light suffer parry most of the time vs a good player, so....what type of tattics remain?...simply: the turtle +full block and feint heavy into shield...

We.the.North
09-21-2017, 10:55 AM
There is a lot of rage and ego talk in this post so ... DISCLAIMER !! This is actually a helpful post :

Valk strong points :
- Very high out of stamina punish, learn the parry punish in the link below :
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6yrzx9/list_of_neutral_attacks_at_full_stam_that_do_put/
- Very strong in group vs group situation. The full shield tackle provides very high protection and crowd control.
- Feinting a heavy into shield tackle + leg sweep is a good way to gank without giving your enemy revenge.
- Hard to predict mix ups. Be wary tho, a leg sweep coming after a shield tackle is slower. Never do it.
- She truely hard counters Highlander abusing Celtic Curse Mx up, since every parry + gb + headbutt is a full punish.

Valk weak points :
- Any dodge attack being block leads to a guard break on her.
- Heavy attack are mostly useless, weakest light attack in the game (not leaping). So, very low damage output.
- Leg sweep is useless against the many heroes with hyper armor, you'll get punished.


TLDR : Valkyrie is a 4v4 hero. She does terrible in duels.


Also, something that will completely crush the Valkyrie in a near future : In the upcoming defense meta patch, you will no longer be able to guard break after you parry. In other words, all those parry punish you learned in the link above will not work anymore, making Valkyrie probably the weakeset hero in the game.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 11:12 AM
There is a lot of rage and ego talk in this post so ... DISCLAIMER !! This is actually a helpful post :

Valk strong points :
- Very high out of stamina punish, learn the parry punish in the link below :
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6yrzx9/list_of_neutral_attacks_at_full_stam_that_do_put/
- Very strong in group vs group situation. The full shield tackle provides very high protection and crowd control.
- Feinting a heavy into shield tackle + leg sweep is a good way to gank without giving your enemy revenge.
- Hard to predict mix ups. Be wary tho, a leg sweep coming after a shield tackle is slower. Never do it.
- She truely hard counters Highlander abusing Celtic Curse Mx up, since every parry + gb + headbutt is a full punish.

Valk weak points :
- Any dodge attack being block leads to a guard break on her.
- Heavy attack are mostly useless, weakest light attack in the game (not leaping). So, very low damage output.
- Leg sweep is useless against the many heroes with hyper armor, you'll get punished.


TLDR : Valkyrie is a 4v4 hero. She does terrible in duels.


Also, something that will completely crush the Valkyrie in a near future : In the upcoming defense meta patch, you will no longer be able to guard break after you parry. In other words, all those parry punish you learned in the link above will not work anymore, making Valkyrie probably the weakeset hero in the game.

No, GB on parry? No problem, I can get a GB out of her dodge superior block ^^, it drains still a good amount of stamina.

ChampionRuby50g
09-21-2017, 11:42 AM
My Rep 16 Valk has been hung up and left to dry since mid Season 2 sadly. To me, she will always be a superior noob stomper due to fast lights, mix up potential and her great CC abilities. But when you start playing against competent opponents, things become a lot harder. Which isn't a bad thing, but when you compare it to other hero's, it seems like Valk is lacking. Valk mains have to work so hard for their kills, and it was so satisfying. But during the current state of the game she is one of the weakest Char's, and as stated by We.The.North she may become THE WEAKEST hero. I remember just getting good with her in Season 1, and as soon as her buff came around she was amazing. I think I remember the devs saying something like "our data is showing that post beta Valk is in a poor position due to low damage, speed etc" Not too dissimilar to now in terms of damage output. I feel like she 100% will need some love in the coming weeks, but it's up to people with greater minds than I to solve this.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 01:37 PM
It does seem like it shouldn't be much of an argument but the thing is that the deflect is an option that you don't see a lot of assassin players utilizing that often and so when it is utilized it catches the opponent off guard. Also the fact that for most assassins it leads into some form of absolutely guaranteed hit/stun. As for the guard break, every berserker knows that deflect, when used in close quarters, is basically a free ticket into a top heavy :cool: Never heard a crunch more satisfying than a deflect into guard break, wall splat and top heavy finisher into awesome execution.

and also if you think it doesn't kill anyone you should ask the hundreds of players deflected regularly in that cardiac arrest inducing last minute, last bar of health moment when they realize they ****ed up on a monumental level.

What do you mean catches them off guard? They get their guaranteed damage and the fight is back at neutral, just like it would be from gb but only with less damage. Aside from long range characters deflect/superior block dodge is the weaker choice for orochi, pk, and valk. Shinobi and zerk have a great deflect that is greater than or equal to a parry so it makes sense to do those. When I said it doesn't kill on the last bar I meant specifically valks shoulder pin since that only does 24 damage which isn't enough to kill.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 01:42 PM
I do not rely that massively on parries and practice every ability of a hero.

Soon, parry will be nerfed - no GB, no heavies, and maybe no lights.
I hope all of them, and chars will get a parry punish like warlord instead.

Def meta will be gone soon, then you will need to use other skills.

Parry is better than everything in the game, thats why the def meta exists, turtles, unparrieable exploit abuse.

We don't actually know what that entails though, and if they did do away with gb after parry then they will take away valks best tool, her oos punishes. The defensive meta pts had a lot of negative reception when it came to parry punishes so I doubt those will be the ones that get through. Half the stuff from the pts making it through to the live version of the game while the parry punishes did not helps back that.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 04:23 PM
We don't actually know what that entails though, and if they did do away with gb after parry then they will take away valks best tool, her oos punishes. The defensive meta pts had a lot of negative reception when it came to parry punishes so I doubt those will be the ones that get through. Half the stuff from the pts making it through to the live version of the game while the parry punishes did not helps back that.

In this case I quote myself :)


No, GB on parry? No problem, I can get a GB out of her dodge superior block ^^, it drains still a good amount of stamina.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 04:33 PM
In this case I quote myself :)

Which does barely any stamina damage. Its really the only tool that keeps her semi relevant and it's going to get nerfed.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 05:08 PM
Which does barely any stamina damage. Its really the only tool that keeps her semi relevant and it's going to get nerfed.

That's not true - and also every hero will lose the ability to GB out of parry so - there no reason to complain at all.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 05:14 PM
That's not true - and also every hero will lose the ability to GB out of parry so - there no reason to complain at all.

But it effects them differently, not everyone's gb punish is the same. Some rely on them more and aside from maybe centurion no one can capitalize on a single parry more than valk. I would argue even more for valk since she doesn't need a wall and only needs a heavy parry to get off 61 damage or a light parry when the person has mid stam.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 06:05 PM
But it effects them differently, not everyone's gb punish is the same. Some rely on them more and aside from maybe centurion no one can capitalize on a single parry more than valk. I would argue even more for valk since she doesn't need a wall and only needs a heavy parry to get off 61 damage or a light parry when the person has mid stam.

Oh, really? Only valk?

So berserker will lose his only real way to use his 96 dmg punish if parry GB is gone.
I am a berserker main but since months I say we need a no dmg parry.

Berserker has his deflect, but it drains less stamina then valks sup block, he gets a only a GB with a safe 33 dmg heavy or a 56 dmg top heavy wall punish.
Berserkers GB throw is not chargeable, means it can't draw more stamina if needed, also if you manage to GB someone but they have left enough stamina and a throw would draw the rest, the forward throw will not knock down the enemy, only the backwards throw, and you can get only 80 dmg on it.

Valk has more possibles out of her dodge block, berserker will stuck with his deflect in a GB animation, deflect has a smaller window than superior dodge of valk...

I can go on all day, sure it won't be as strong as Parry-> GB but thats the reason why they want to nerf parry --- it's to strong :D

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 06:18 PM
Oh, really? Only valk?

So berserker will lose his only real way to use his 96 dmg punish if parry GB is gone.
I am a berserker main but since months I say we need a no dmg parry.

Berserker has his deflect, but it drains less stamina then valks sup block, he gets a only a GB with a safe 33 dmg heavy or a 56 dmg top heavy wall punish.
Berserkers GB throw is not chargeable, means it can't draw more stamina if needed, also if you manage to GB someone but they have left enough stamina and a throw would draw the rest, the forward throw will not knock down the enemy, only the backwards throw, and you can get only 80 dmg on it.

Valk has more possibles out of her dodge block, berserker will stuck with his deflect in a GB animation, deflect has a smaller window than superior dodge of valk...

I can go on all day, sure it won't be as strong as Parry-> GB but thats the reason why they want to nerf parry --- it's to strong :D

I didn't say it only effects her I'm saying it effects her the most. This will barely put a dent in characters who don't rely on parry/gb but for valk it's huge. You have to get them oos as zerk, valk can put them oos with headbutt. Headbutt doesn't draw more stamina when you charge it it just knocks them back further. More possibilities does not mean better it's still worse than parry. I also don't get why your comparing one bad mechanic to another, they honestly both suck and are inferior to just parrying.

I understand why they are nerfing parry gb but what I'm saying is they are nerfing the only thing that separates her from the rest of the cast. She's already bottom of the barrell on PC and creeps up to mid on console since input lag is so brutal.

The only good think about those changes is her lights will be safer but big whoop. Her lights are among the lowest in damage, it'll take 10 of the first lights to even kill an assassin which realistically is all your going to get off since blocking the second is easy as pie.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 06:56 PM
I didn't say it only effects her I'm saying it effects her the most. This will barely put a dent in characters who don't rely on parry/gb but for valk it's huge. You have to get them oos as zerk, valk can put them oos with headbutt. Headbutt doesn't draw more stamina when you charge it it just knocks them back further. More possibilities does not mean better it's still worse than parry. I also don't get why your comparing one bad mechanic to another, they honestly both suck and are inferior to just parrying.

I understand why they are nerfing parry gb but what I'm saying is they are nerfing the only thing that separates her from the rest of the cast. She's already bottom of the barrell on PC and creeps up to mid on console since input lag is so brutal.

The only good think about those changes is her lights will be safer but big whoop. Her lights are among the lowest in damage, it'll take 10 of the first lights to even kill an assassin which realistically is all your going to get off since blocking the second is easy as pie.

Wow... not a personal attack - but judging your posts they are really edgy-biased-stubborn.

Mhh, ok last time I fully charged was some months ago, somehow I remember that it did more stamina dmg but ok nvm.

I don't have to get my enemy OOS for it, I can do the same like valk forward just backwards with more dmg :P

You are right - parry is better, and I agree with it, but calling those other mechanics bad just because current parry is slightly better is just deluded.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 07:12 PM
Wow... not a personal attack - but judging your posts they are really edgy-biased-stubborn.

Mhh, ok last time I fully charged was some months ago, somehow I remember that it did more stamina dmg but ok nvm.

I don't have to get my enemy OOS for it, I can do the same like valk forward just backwards with more dmg :P

You are right - parry is better, and I agree with it, but calling those other mechanics bad just because current parry is slightly better is just deluded.

Totally a personal attack but whatever. My skin is thick enough that an insult from a faceless stranger doesn't really effect me. Stubborn definitely but not sure where you get edgy from. Here's a List of neutral attacks at full stam that do put you OOS against Valkyrie on parry

Do go into OOS and get knocked down on parry+headbutt:
Warden
Conq
PK
Lawbringer
Warlord
Valkyrie
Highlander (including Celtic Curse & Offensive heavy)
Kensei
Orochi
Nobushi
Shugoki
Gladiator's light into skewer
Raider's soft-feinted zone into stunning tap


Do not go into OOS after parry+headbutt:
Centurion (even a whiffed heavy into an unblockable heavy)
Gladiator (including the sprinting attack and the leaping thrust)
Raider (including the raw zone and the soft-feinted heavy into tap)
Berserker
Nobushi's zone
Shinobi
Go into OOS on parry without headbutt:
Gladiator's heavy into skewer

None of those work for zerk.

they are bad though because there's a better option. There's no advantage to doing them when something that is better in every way exists.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 08:42 PM
Totally a personal attack but whatever. My skin is thick enough that an insult from a faceless stranger doesn't really effect me. Stubborn definitely but not sure where you get edgy from. Here's a List of neutral attacks at full stam that do put you OOS against Valkyrie on parry

they are bad though because there's a better option. There's no advantage to doing them when something that is better in every way exists.

Edgy in terms of trendy - it is trendy in For Honor to talk literally everything bad.

This way of thinking ... no comment.

There is no reason to continue this - have a good day.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 08:48 PM
Edgy in terms of trendy - it is trendy in For Honor to talk literally everything bad.

This way of thinking ... no comment.

There is no reason to continue this - have a good day.

In what world does trendy mean edgy? Whatever I don't care enough to continue arguing about a personal attack.

Instead answer me this, would you use a light attack that does less damage, less stamina damage, has worse recovery, and isn't as safe as just doing your normal light attacks? Also note I didn't say slower so it can't be used as parry mixup/bait.

Devils-_-legacy
09-21-2017, 08:49 PM
😂 at least you kept it civil somi😂

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 08:59 PM
😂 at least you kept it civil somi😂

Yeah super civil to call me stubborn-biased-edgy. I would happily concede to an argument if he made a good one but there's real no justification for using something that does 24 bleed damage compared to something that can lead to 61. I'll give him props for trying to brush them off as barely being different but he hasn't convinced me yet.

Devils-_-legacy
09-21-2017, 09:02 PM
Tbf I agree with somi

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 09:12 PM
Tbf I agree with somi

So you agree that shoulder pin, an attack that can be blocked, bleeds, doesn't do enough damage to kill, requires superior block which is harder to pull off than a parry, can't be cancelled, can't tech if gb, and has worse recovery is as good as parry that can be cancelled, does stamina damage, and does 61 damage? If you do then there's really no argument I can make to convince you otherwise.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 09:15 PM
�� at least you kept it civil somi��

Somehow my Russian/German mixed blood (born on the asian part of Russia) does not took the overhand xDD - I am learning.


Yeah super civil to call me stubborn-biased-edgy. I would happily concede to an argument if he made a good one but there's real no justification for using something that does 24 bleed damage compared to something that can lead to 61. I'll give him props for trying to brush them off as barely being different but he hasn't convinced me yet.

Read again - not calling you stubborn-biased-edgy but your comments sound like it.

I don't know a fart about you - I could judge you from your posts, but that would be really superficial.

Don't need to convince you, def meta patch will do it :D

Like I said, I agree with you, parry is better, and also like you say " it can lead to it" but not always guaranteed.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 09:17 PM
So you agree that shoulder pin, an attack that can be blocked, bleeds, doesn't do enough damage to kill, requires superior block which is harder to pull off than a parry, can't be cancelled, can't tech if gb, and has worse recovery is as good as parry that can be cancelled, does stamina damage, and does 61 damage? If you do then there's really no argument I can make to convince you otherwise.

Not talking about shoulder pin, but about superior dodge block :D

I don't see, that I mentioned shoulder pin but only the sup block on dodge.

Sup block compared to parry.

Sup block can lead in same things like a parry, or a shoulder pin, or more mix ups.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 09:18 PM
Somehow my Russian/German mixed blood (born on the asian part of Russia) does not took the overhand xDD - I am learning.



Read again - not called you stubborn-biased-edgy but your comments sound like it.

I don't know a fart about you - I could judge you from your posts, but that would be really superficial.

Don't need to convince you, def meta patch will do it :D

Like I said, I agree with you, parry is better, and also like you say " it can lead to it" but not always guaranteed.

The patch that hasn't come out yet that we don't know the full details of? Sure you can totally speculate on something that doesn't exist but I'd rather discuss what's going on with the game now.

I've already given you the attacks that it's guaranteed with, those don't exist with shoulder pin.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 09:22 PM
Not talking about shoulder pin, but about superior dodge block :D

I don't see, that I mentioned shoulder pin but only the sup block on dodge.

I'll find it later, you definitely did. It's still worse, do you think that sup block on dodge can put someone oos from the list I gave? Even if it did, can it do as many? Can you cgb if they cancel into a gb? Is her 700ms dash recovery as safe as canceling a parry?

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 09:25 PM
Not talking about shoulder pin, but about superior dodge block :D

I don't see, that I mentioned shoulder pin but only the sup block on dodge.

Sup block compared to parry.

Sup block can lead in same things like a parry, or a shoulder pin, or more mix ups.

Why would you even do shoulder pin when you have a 61 damage guaranteed combo? What mixup can you do that's worth 61 guaranteed damage? If it can lead to the same results why wouldn't you just parry when the timing isn't as tight and parrying is safer?

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 09:58 PM
Parry is better in every way. Leads to more damage, more stamina damage, it's safer, the timing is easier, and it's guaranteed unlike shoulder pin which can be blocked. I don't get why this is even an argument, the only time you would use it over a parry into gb is on long range characters. Other than that you gimp yourself by using it, it doesn't even kill someone on a final bar for Christ sake.


I do not rely that massively on parries and practice every ability of a hero.

Soon, parry will be nerfed - no GB, no heavies, and maybe no lights.
I hope all of them, and chars will get a parry punish like warlord instead.

Def meta will be gone soon, then you will need to use other skills.

Parry is better than everything in the game, thats why the def meta exists, turtles, unparrieable exploit abuse.

. . . You know we both talk past each other . . .
Those quotes our first comments for this "discussion" in this thread.

Before this I explained why the valks sup block on dodges isn't trash, and that parry will change soon, and I am 100% sure that GB after parry will not be anymore soon.

Also, I agreed with you, that parry is just to powerful all over the place.

Never said that it is better than parry or would currently rather use her dodge block than a parry.



Why would you even do shoulder pin when you have a 61 damage guaranteed combo? What mixup can you do that's worth 61 guaranteed damage? If it can lead to the same results why wouldn't you just parry when the timing isn't as tight and parrying is safer?

I did react to your points, agreed on current parry, said that parry will change, especially GB after a parry and explained why I think sup block is not completely trash like you said.


Totally a personal attack but whatever. My skin is thick enough that an insult from a faceless stranger doesn't really effect me. Stubborn definitely but not sure where you get edgy from. Here's a List of neutral attacks at full stam that do put you OOS against Valkyrie on parry

they are bad though because there's a better option. There's no advantage to doing them when something that is better in every way exists.


I didn't say it only effects her I'm saying it effects her the most. This will barely put a dent in characters who don't rely on parry/gb but for valk it's huge. You have to get them oos as zerk, valk can put them oos with headbutt. Headbutt doesn't draw more stamina when you charge it it just knocks them back further. More possibilities does not mean better it's still worse than parry. I also don't get why your comparing one bad mechanic to another, they honestly both suck and are inferior to just parrying.

I understand why they are nerfing parry gb but what I'm saying is they are nerfing the only thing that separates her from the rest of the cast. She's already bottom of the barrell on PC and creeps up to mid on console since input lag is so brutal.

The only good think about those changes is her lights will be safer but big whoop. Her lights are among the lowest in damage, it'll take 10 of the first lights to even kill an assassin which realistically is all your going to get off since blocking the second is easy as pie.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 10:01 PM
If you want me to talk how I currently play.

I do parry more than use her dodge block, but still I use it, because there are situation, where I didn't make the parry in time and block dodge is would still get it, longer range attacks, or sometimes when I know, that I don't get a OOS punish out of it.
(sometimes I just love to use it because it is more satisfying than a parry xD - but thats a different story)

Edit:
Also, you said, that valk will lose her best punish and will be trash after that - I disagreed with you, and explained that there will be still the sup block option and she isn't the only one who will lose a huge punish, but you just said, that she will suffer the most from it (what isn't true) and she will not recover from it.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 10:10 PM
. . . You know we both talk past each other . . .
Those quotes our first comments for this "discussion" in this thread.

Before this I explained why the valks sup block on dodges isn't trash, and that parry will change soon, and I am 100% sure that GB after parry will not be anymore soon.

Also, I agreed with you, that parry is just to powerful all over the place.

Never said that it is better than parry or would currently rather use her dodge block than a parry.




I did react to your points, agreed on current parry, said that parry will change, especially GB after a parry and explained why I think sup block is not completely trash like you said.

If there's literally no benefit to using it over parry then yes I will describe it as trash. If your entire argument is just based on me calling it "trash" well then all we can do is agree to disagree since it's just opinions. She will be an objectively worse state if she loses her heavy parry gb combo. It's her strongest tool and they are removing it. That's my argument. I've yet to see anything that counters this.

Yes I know they are removing it for everyone but it's going to hit valk way harder. Look at it this way, if they removed guaranteed heavy on gb then characters like zerk are going to feel that a lot harder than Orochi will. Orochi loses out on 3damage, zerk loses 21. It's the same for valk, some characters will lose out on 15-20 damage valk is going to lose out on 44.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 10:21 PM
If you want me to talk how I currently play.

I do parry more than use her dodge block, but still I use it, because there are situation, where I didn't make the parry in time and block dodge is would still get it, longer range attacks, or sometimes when I know, that I don't get a OOS punish out of it.
(sometimes I just love to use it because it is more satisfying than a parry xD - but thats a different story)

Edit:
Also, you said, that valk will lose her best punish and will be trash after that - I disagreed with you, and explained that there will be still the sup block option and she isn't the only one who will lose a huge punish, but you just said, that she will suffer the most from it (what isn't true) and she will not recover from it.

Long range characters is the only legitamely point you've made to use this sup block over parry. If you have time to sup block then you have time to parry, even if you don't get the oos punish it's still worse than parry. It's still less damage, less stam damage, and not as safe.

Please tell me who can get 61 damage out of a raw heavy parry from full stam aside from her without requiring a wall. Please look to my previous Orochi gb example. If she won't suffer the most then who will?

Yeah she probably won't recover, she's already one of the worst characters at dueling, take away her strongest tool and she will sink even lower.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 10:25 PM
If there's literally no benefit to using it over parry then yes I will describe it as trash. If your entire argument is just based on me calling it "trash" well then all we can do is agree to disagree since it's just opinions. She will be an objectively worse state if she loses her heavy parry gb combo. It's her strongest tool and they are removing it. That's my argument. I've yet to see anything that counters this.

Yes I know they are removing it for everyone but it's going to hit valk way harder. Look at it this way, if they removed guaranteed heavy on gb then characters like zerk are going to feel that a lot harder than Orochi will. Orochi loses out on 3damage, zerk loses 21. It's the same for valk, some characters will lose out on 15-20 damage valk is going to lose out on 44.

That's the reason why they delayed def meta patch, because parry reward would still differ to much between heroes.
Also, with the last pt changes for parry, I would still get the zone out of parry ;D still 30 dmg :)

I wouldn't mind it, with gb removed from parry I lose one of my easiest access points to my 96 dmg punish and 80 dmg punish.
But for the sake of balance I take it.


They need to give her a Light - heavy or light - heavy - light chain with def meta patch and a small basic heavy dmg boost.

Why I like to not only talk about current state but also about future state (which of we already got a good glimpse), is because it will happen, and mentally I already adapt.

Basically, I agree - there is nothing that tops parry. Yes she will lose a huge power of her, but not only she - cent will have a similar loss, berserker and many others as well.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 10:29 PM
That's the reason why they delayed def meta patch, because parry reward would still differ to much between heroes.
Also, with the last pt changes for parry, I would still get the zone out of parry ;D still 30 dmg :)

I wouldn't mind it, with gb removed from parry I lose one of my easiest access points to my 96 dmg punish and 80 dmg punish.
But for the sake of balance I take it.


They need to give her a Light - heavy or light - heavy - light chain with def meta patch and a small basic heavy dmg boost.

Why I like to not only talk about current state but also about future state (which of we already got a good glimpse), is because it will happen, and mentally I already adapt.

Basically, I agree - there is nothing that tops parry. Yes she will lose a huge power of her, but not only she - cent will have a similar loss, berserker and many others as well.

I agree about the boost and chain. At least those characters have a couple things to fallback on after their loss of gb. Valk not so much, like I said she's already pretty bad even with her really good parry punish on heavies and low stam lights. Zerk is also pretty terrible too though.

Devils-_-legacy
09-21-2017, 10:37 PM
Hopefully they will compensate with a buff or if they start to do reworks but I doughty they will rework the combos 😔