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View Full Version : Damage model on ALL planes in AEP



RedSpar
03-05-2004, 04:21 PM
I swear all the planes in AEP are much harder to shoot down now than in FB... Almost to the point where it is not very realistic.

Playing online last night, players were getting frustrated in their inability to down planes even after many, many hits.

I unloaded my full capacity of 20mm Hispanos from my Spit into a 109 and nothing...Didn't even lose a elevator. These were clean, sustained, close range hits. But it wasn't just me...109 pilots had the same probs against Spits and everything else.

Anyone else notice this?

I can put up some tracks to show this if needed.

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RedSpar
03-05-2004, 04:21 PM
I swear all the planes in AEP are much harder to shoot down now than in FB... Almost to the point where it is not very realistic.

Playing online last night, players were getting frustrated in their inability to down planes even after many, many hits.

I unloaded my full capacity of 20mm Hispanos from my Spit into a 109 and nothing...Didn't even lose a elevator. These were clean, sustained, close range hits. But it wasn't just me...109 pilots had the same probs against Spits and everything else.

Anyone else notice this?

I can put up some tracks to show this if needed.

http://www.redspar.com/sigs/FBsig.gif

crazyivan1970
03-05-2004, 04:51 PM
Didn`t notice difference. MK108 as deadly as ever, 20mm in Spit seemed fine too...1-2 sec burst from it and Z went down in flames.

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Bull_dog_
03-05-2004, 09:32 PM
Its odd that you say that because I noticed that too, but I thought that I might be imagining it with all the new planes...and I know the Fw got new damage modelling....

I flew offline 4 on 4 spits vs. Fw's and I flew a mission where I got two fw's smoking but no kills...that never happens

I still think it might be my imagination...but I wonder if anyone else noticed....try a 110 against Yak 9-D's had a difficult time shooting them down with default loads.

PriK
03-05-2004, 09:51 PM
Oleg probably tweaked the damage models overall just a touch but I don't get where you can determine that it's unrealistic. I mean, how would anyone here really be able to determine what was realistic and not since none of us ever really shot down a plane in real life.

Anyway, if there is a difference it's pretty slight since I've noticed sometimes I can pour cannon rounds into a plane and barely hurt it and other times one small burst does it.

I can live with that.

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JG53_Gutted
03-05-2004, 10:23 PM
its definately changed, whether its realistic or not i dont know yet.

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03-06-2004, 05:59 AM
Then how come I'm able to shoot planes down more easily than in FB?

mike_espo
03-06-2004, 10:05 AM
I agree. Its tougher. I flew a 109f vs the spit and I was getting many hits and nothing. I went offline and tried. The spit damage model can definately take punishment. Even vs the MK 108. I tried then the Yak 9 and it was much easier to kill. The spit could take many 30mm rounds and keep flying whereas the Yak one hit and its done.

PriK
03-06-2004, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kweassa1:
Then how come I'm able to shoot planes down more easily than in FB?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because I think impressions can be very subjective this early in the game. I'd be curious to know a bit more of how the DM is implemented but I doubt Oleg wants to get that detailed with us. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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ACE.HOLE
03-06-2004, 04:30 PM
It sounds like you are experiencing lag, test it offline and compair. Some of the online servers having mid to high pings it will apear you are hitting an enemy aircraft when your not. This sounds like the problem you are experiencing. Try it offline the damage models are the same.

I agree with you the small caliber should be more effective. Tey should be able to shoot down aircraft in a few short bursts with 7.62m

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Gunner_361st
03-06-2004, 05:35 PM
It is for sure that damage modeling in general has been changed.

The vast majority of the time with AEP the enemy planes I shoot down go down because of either...

A-Engine Failure/Fire
B-Fuel tank fires
C-Pilot death

It seems all aircraft tendency to be shot down due to catastrophic structural failure (Wing or tail coming off) is much reduced.

This may be more realistic, because with all the WWII gun camera footage I've ever seen, the majority of the time the victim aircraft is lit aflame, rather than gets sawed in half.

It is interesting and I like it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm sure Oleg and team know what they are doing.

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Bearcat99
03-06-2004, 05:45 PM
It seems to me like the DM has been tightened up a bit more... a few well placerd shots in key areas can still send a inline engine smoking..but now you have to be more precise... especially online... and we dont know how much lag is effecting that. I always did notice that I had a much harder time online than off... even if it looked like I was almost unloading everything i had into a plane it would still be flying..... other times a 5 second burst and boom.....

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WB_Outlaw
03-06-2004, 10:28 PM
To truly test the damage model and/or weapon effects, setup a quick mission with no hostiles and 1 or more FRIENDLIES flying the victim aircraft.

Set your gun sync. at 100 yards and park right on his butt. The friendly will not evade so accuracy is not a problem. Also, perform the test at 1/4 speed so you can really be sure you hit.

This procedure is similar to taking off and nuking the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

This whole thread will probably go away after this procedure is applied.

Practice a little bit and you will find several spots on most aircraft where a single 20mm cannon round will cause catastrophic damage and a rapid descent to the ground.

-Outlaw.

03-06-2004, 10:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Because I think impressions can be very subjective this early in the game. I'd be curious to know a bit more of how the DM is implemented but I doubt Oleg wants to get that detailed with us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The "impression", works both ways.

BfHeFwMe
03-06-2004, 11:29 PM
I'm seeing much new damage and effects, stuff like a Yak-3 hit from the top in the engine burst into flame and explode into three big burning chunks. Bit different, you bet, but not working, seems to be working just fine on line for me. Planes going down same as usual. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Cragger
03-07-2004, 12:28 AM
The experiences seem varied and far between. Personally I can't seem to scratch anything with the MG 151/20 but can clip wings off with the Hispano, the MK 108 is still deadly as ever. Flying the BF110 alot I've soaked up hundreds of .50 rounds without so much as an oil leak after watching the rounds hit the engines over and over.

Something really does feel off in the AEP. Infact to me the damage plays out much like it did for IL2 where you practically had to unload everything you had into an enemy just to make an effect from the 6 o'clock.

I know RedSpar and he won't post a complaint unless he truely believes there is an issue with what is happening from his perspective.

I recently sent RedSpar in jest a track where 4 TB3 R34s took all the 20mm and all the 7.62mm rounds (aimmed at engines and fuel tanks) from my BF110 and then proceeded to soak up BK 3.7 rounds. Infact I only managed to kill two of them in air one (after it had taken 7 BK 3.7 hits)where the BK hit the bombbay finally and it blew up and second where I took the vertical stabilizer off and the crew bailed. The other two either crash landed or the crew eventually decided to bail.

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JG14_Josf
03-07-2004, 12:38 AM
Damage modeling can also be tested using the FMB.

By placing planes off the runway near hills it is possible to line one plane in the sights of another plane on the ground.

With a little work it is possible to aim at specific parts like engine, wingroot, wingtip, mid wing, cockpit, tail, fuselage between the cockpit and tail, rudder, landing gear, pilot, and so on.

Don't put the shooting plane too close to the target plane if you plan on using the big guns.

Hunde_3.JG51
03-07-2004, 04:18 AM
I definitely notice a change, certain planes are much tougher to bring down, though engines seem more vulnerable. I am hitting stuff offline with 4x20mm cannon at 200m convergence and not getting much results. The Lagg-3 ('43) for example was taking enormous amounts of punishment. I think something was changed but it seems like certain planes are much tougher (Lagg-3, Yaks), some seem exactly the same (P-40, P-39). So far only the P-47 seems weaker to me. Spitifre seems to be reasonably easy to cripple, but it sure takes alot to bring it down (unless engine is hit which is very vulnerable).

Some are suggesting that the 151/20 was weakened. I fly the 190 almost exclusively so this could be the reason for it but I doubt it (but it still may be). I think the Damage modelling in general, or for certain planes was changed.

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