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My.Insanity
09-19-2017, 11:20 AM
So i played a few Duels in Tournament Mode with the "new" Warlord.. and it's very frustrating how bad he feels now.

"We increased Finisher damage and decreased Basic damage. We want to reward Warlords who manage to land their chains."

I mean come on.. how am I able to land a "full" combo without getting parryed after the first light.. his attacks are so slow and he has no mixups at all (2 hit combo)... best opener he has is still his zone attack which is well known. I have no idea how anyone is able to use a finisher without wiffing the first attack and hopeing the hyperarmor will make a trade.... and while speaking of trading attacks this is also now harder because you deal less dmg which takes away much pressure from the enemy.

"We wanted to give more incentive to use Full Block Stance for the Warlord."

then for the sake of god remove the 300ms which you need to enter Full Block... Warlord is a counter attacker.. how can i use the Full Block for a counter attack when he needs that much time to use it... you told us he should use his shield more instead of dodging attacks... then give us the option to use it. Everyone is now able to GB you while Full Block.. shoundt be a problem to reduce the time to enter the stance.

S0Mi_xD
09-19-2017, 11:46 AM
He is balanced with def meta changes in mind - sooo I understand the point of the devs, but the problem is we don't have the def meta patch.

Warlord is now a hero like every other.

This is the short version of my opinion on this topic.

He is still good and has more advantages than most of the cast.

Netcode_err_404
09-19-2017, 12:48 PM
So i played a few Duels in Tournament Mode with the "new" Warlord.. and it's very frustrating how bad he feels now.

"We increased Finisher damage and decreased Basic damage. We want to reward Warlords who manage to land their chains."

I mean come on.. how am I able to land a "full" combo without getting parryed after the first light.. his attacks are so slow and he has no mixups at all (2 hit combo)... best opener he has is still his zone attack which is well known. I have no idea how anyone is able to use a finisher without wiffing the first attack and hopeing the hyperarmor will make a trade.... and while speaking of trading attacks this is also now harder because you deal less dmg which takes away much pressure from the enemy.

"We wanted to give more incentive to use Full Block Stance for the Warlord."

then for the sake of god remove the 300ms which you need to enter Full Block... Warlord is a counter attacker.. how can i use the Full Block for a counter attack when he needs that much time to use it... you told us he should use his shield more instead of dodging attacks... then give us the option to use it. Everyone is now able to GB you while Full Block.. shoundt be a problem to reduce the time to enter the stance.

Wecome to kenseis world. We hope yu enjoy your stay.


Counter attacker doesn't mean going full block as soon as your opponent moves, to get a free heavy. Justr saying. All these"feedback" are just "pls buff again my main".

Xaviloga
09-19-2017, 01:58 PM
We all agree WL was strong. Nerf absolutly everything on him is a bit too much if you ask me.

My.Insanity
09-19-2017, 02:01 PM
"pls buff again my main".

you can't say "again" if it never happend before.. Warlord was always strong.. i dont deny that. But he never got a single buff.. always nerfs. And according to the Devs he was long time the Blanacing Goal for every other Character... now i think the best balanced character in this game is the Gladiator (yes toe stab is annoying, no it doesnt need a nerf because you can dodge it and get a free GB)

Tyrjo
09-19-2017, 02:21 PM
I think many of the nerfs were justified but the biggest nerf was the change to his headbutt. WL needed it to be like it was in order to close the gap. It's useless now. It's not even worth doing.

Like OP said about chains, it is complete suicide to use them. They are parried 99% of the time.



Counter attacker doesn't mean going full block as soon as your opponent moves, to get a free heavy. Justr saying. All these"feedback" are just "pls buff again my main".

It's not a free heavy though. It's blockable and parryable.

S0Mi_xD
09-19-2017, 02:24 PM
I think many of the nerfs were justified but the biggest nerf was the change to his headbutt. WL needed it to be like it was in order to close the gap. It's useless now. It's not even worth doing.

Like OP said about chains, it is complete suicide to use them. They are parried 99% of the time.



It's not a free heavy though. It's blockable and parryable.

The heavy is free, if you time it right (I tested it after nerf)

Using chains is suicide is not a hero specific problem, it is a core mechanic specific problem (like I say every time, a defensive tool that allows you to go full offense - what did you think comes from it xD)

Netcode_err_404
09-19-2017, 02:44 PM
I think many of the nerfs were justified but the biggest nerf was the change to his headbutt. WL needed it to be like it was in order to close the gap. It's useless now. It's not even worth doing.

Like OP said about chains, it is complete suicide to use them. They are parried 99% of the time.



It's not a free heavy though. It's blockable and parryable.

No, its free

BTTrinity
09-19-2017, 03:08 PM
you can't say "again" if it never happend before.. Warlord was always strong.. i dont deny that. But he never got a single buff.. always nerfs. And according to the Devs he was long time the Blanacing Goal for every other Character... now i think the best balanced character in this game is the Gladiator (yes toe stab is annoying, no it doesnt need a nerf because you can dodge it and get a free GB)

No, they've buffed warlord a long time ago after release. Everyone was complaining about headbutt, so they made it ever so slightly easier to react to (like not at all, to the point where I shouldnt even mention it) but decreased the recovery time (made it un-punishable)

Still, Warlord has one of the best kits and holds many advantages when comparing to other classes in 1v1. Now you guys actually have to think about how you play

gj4063
09-19-2017, 04:33 PM
"We wanted to give more incentive to use Full Block Stance for the Warlord."

then for the sake of god remove the 300ms which you need to enter Full Block....

/signed.

this is all that needs to change imho. you can even reduce damages if you want, just reduce full block delay.

RoosterIlluzion
09-20-2017, 03:41 AM
So i playied a few Duels in Tournament Mode with the "new" Warlord.. and it's very frustrating how bad he feels now.

"We increased Finisher damage and decreased Basic damage. We want to reward Warlords who manage to land their chains."

I mean come on.. how am I able to land a "full" combo without getting parryed after the first light.. his attacks are so slow and he has no mixups at all (2 hit combo)... best opener he has is still his zone attack which is well known. I have no idea how anyone is able to use a finisher without wiffing the first attack and hopeing the hyperarmor will make a trade.... and while speaking of trading attacks this is also now harder because you deal less dmg which takes away much pressure from the enemy.

"We wanted to give more incentive to use Full Block Stance for the Warlord."

then for the sake of god remove the 300ms which you need to enter Full Block... Warlord is a counter attacker.. how can i use the Full Block for a counter attack when he needs that much time to use it... you told us he should use his shield more instead of dodging attacks... then give us the option to use it. Everyone is now able to GB you while Full Block.. shoundt be a problem to reduce the time to enter the stance.

I can't speak on the combos, but if you need to enter full stance block in 1v1, you're not playing him right. It's meant for gank situations, where you're outnumbered.

My.Insanity
09-20-2017, 07:20 AM
I can't speak on the combos, but if you need to enter full stance block in 1v1, you're not playing him right. It's meant for gank situations, where you're outnumbered.

Full Block Stance is a nice tool even in 1v1... when you face Heros like (PK / Orochi / Warden) which use very fast light and zone attacks.. you dont need to guess if it will be a top light or a left/right zone you just press Full Block and punish them with a heavy... but most of the time you wont enter the Full Block Stance in time because those lights and zones are so fast that your 300ms to enter the stance are too slow. Which also is true for attack chains.. if you get stuck in the infinity chain of an Berserker you cant enter Full Guard because the start up is too long.

I agree that this is a strong tool.. but like the Devs said.. they want Warlords to use this Full Guard more which is now a joke.. because you can nearly only use it against slow attacks which i could also parry and punish with a GB + Wall Splat + side Heavy (same dmg as full guard block and uses less Stamina and drains Stamina from the enemy)

Charmzzz
09-20-2017, 08:14 AM
Full Block Stance is a nice tool even in 1v1... when you face Heros like (PK / Orochi / Warden) which use very fast light and zone attacks.. you dont need to guess if it will be a top light or a left/right zone you just press Full Block and punish them with a heavy...


Now I get it, you want a heavy punish on a one-button-press vs attacks that are too fast for you. Don't you think that would be, well, a little bit overpowered? :confused:

kweassa1
09-20-2017, 08:19 AM
Full Block Stance is a nice tool even in 1v1... when you face Heros like (PK / Orochi / Warden) which use very fast light and zone attacks.. you dont need to guess if it will be a top light or a left/right zone you just press Full Block and punish them with a heavy... but most of the time you wont enter the Full Block Stance in time because those lights and zones are so fast that your 300ms to enter the stance are too slow. Which also is true for attack chains.. if you get stuck in the infinity chain of an Berserker you cant enter Full Guard because the start up is too long.

I agree that this is a strong tool.. but like the Devs said.. they want Warlords to use this Full Guard more which is now a joke.. because you can nearly only use it against slow attacks which i could also parry and punish with a GB + Wall Splat + side Heavy (same dmg as full guard block and uses less Stamina and drains Stamina from the enemy)

You don't really use FB on reflex. You use it pre-emptively when you anticipate the opponent is going to use do shi* like flicker or light spam... and literally it's an infallible move against classes without "opener" MAs -- typically vanilla assassins Psychologically it's a pressure tool against those classes, as well as a mild taunt... since the other guy knows there's nothing to be done. GBs can be CGBd, feints or mixups don't work against that superior block at all, anything touches the shield and you get immediately retaliated by a counter combo.

Only thing can be done is wait out until the guy comes out of FB... which then he can simply regain full stamina in a few seconds by parting distance a bit and turtling. See a hairy situation in a duel against a vanilla assassin... just rinse and repeat this as many times as you want -- easily forced draw round.


....which is why it got nerfed.

matt89connor
09-20-2017, 08:22 AM
We all agree WL was strong. Nerf absolutly everything on him is a bit too much if you ask me.

i agree with you,nerf was needed, but they nerf too much....i know people cry in console an pc because of him, but Hey!, there are others hero much strong than him even before the nerf.

My.Insanity
09-20-2017, 09:08 AM
GBs can be CGBd.

nope... since the last patch you are unable to CGB while in Full Block Stance. So now if they "turtle" in Full Guard.. you can go for a heavy faint into GB.

Charmzzz
09-20-2017, 09:16 AM
i agree with you,nerf was needed, but they nerf too much....i know people cry in console an pc because of him, but Hey!, there are others hero much strong than him even before the nerf.

Which "others hero" are stronger? Elaborate please. I can only think of one / maybe two with an overall better kit than the WL.


nope... since the last patch you are unable to CGB while in Full Block Stance. So now if they "turtle" in Full Guard.. you can go for a heavy faint into GB.

Yes. That is what kweassa1 said. Before the nerf it was an overpowered stance against every character without an unblockable move. You could literally not do ANYTHING against it. That's why it got nerfed.

And now you want it to be an instant, one-button-press, all-side, super block move with a heavy punish? Are you serious? In which world this would be not overpowered?

Xaviloga
09-20-2017, 09:32 AM
I didnt play WL since nerf. Maybe im understanding this wrong. If i go to full block stance and my enemie do a GB, is there something i can do?. Because if not , i dont see the ultility of the FB stance.

S0Mi_xD
09-20-2017, 09:42 AM
I didnt play WL since nerf. Maybe im understanding this wrong. If i go to full block stance and my enemie do a GB, is there something i can do?. Because if not , i dont see the ultility of the FB stance.

The purpose of FBS is not to sit and hour in the stance and wait until someone is stupid enough to attack you.

Even in 4v4s if you are attacked you go for a short time into FBS to get a brief moment where you can counter or get out.
But I somehow need to agree that 300 ms is to much to activate in ganks but if you make it faster come out, you give the possibility to react against light attacks with out problems.

Xaviloga
09-20-2017, 09:55 AM
The purpose of FBS is not to sit and hour in the stance and wait until someone is stupid enough to attack you.

Even in 4v4s if you are attacked you go for a short time into FBS to get a brief moment where you can counter or get out.
But I somehow need to agree that 300 ms is to much to activate in ganks but if you make it faster come out, you give the possibility to react against light attacks with out problems.

Limit the use them. You can do it increasing the stamina cost. In the way you want. Dont see the point of turn an ability to something absolutely unuseful.

By the other side, if you nerf the heavy you can throw from FB stance, then you can reduce the activation time. I think.

My.Insanity
09-20-2017, 10:12 AM
And now you want it to be an instant, one-button-press, all-side, super block move with a heavy punish? Are you serious? In which world this would be not overpowered?

I didnt said i want it to be an instant.. but if the Devs reduced tools like his "dodge" to make him use another tool (full block stance) more.. then they need to balance those tools so it would be a fair trade.

It would be the same if they say "hey lets reduce the ability to use parry as an Assassins and make them use deflect more" but they dont change anything on deflect.. this would make no sense

I mean okay many things in this Game make no sense like why nerf WL instead of buffing ALL OTHER HEROS.. or why not nerf this cancer Centurio which is destorying the complet Game. But hey... im no one and my opinion means little to nothing.

Charmzzz
09-20-2017, 10:23 AM
I didnt said i want it to be an instant.. but if the Devs reduced tools like his "dodge" to make him use another tool (full block stance) more.. then they need to balance those tools so it would be a fair trade.

It would be the same if they say "hey lets reduce the ability to use parry as an Assassins and make them use deflect more" but they dont change anything on deflect.. this would make no sense


Well you said that you want it to be fast enough to go into FBS when an Assassin attacks. Which would mean that FBS has to be like Guard Switch with 100ms or maybe at 200ms. Which would render all Assassins completely incapable of attacking a WL. That would be "balance" in your opinion?

You compare different things with each other. FBS is not available to all Characters and was, before the nerf, an unpunishable move (especially on WL) for most of the matchups. They had to give FBS a risk. And no, that slow stamina drain was not a risk. Back up for 3 sec and you are full again, ready to FBS.

So it has 300ms activation. Let's see, all heavies in the game are slower than that. So if you are outnumbered and people start throwing heavies at you, hell yeah, FBS is good! But if you stay in it and they GB you - your fault. Use it once in a while to block heavies. Keep in mind that they will almost definitely nerf all parry punishes in the game, so having a FBS with a guaranteed counter attack on blocking heavies, will be good again.

S0Mi_xD
09-20-2017, 10:29 AM
Limit the use them. You can do it increasing the stamina cost. In the way you want. Dont see the point of turn an ability to something absolutely unuseful.

By the other side, if you nerf the heavy you can throw from FB stance, then you can reduce the activation time. I think.

Unless you raise the stamina cost so high that you run out in Max 5 seconds it would be pretty useless.

You have still the possibility to bait people. How it works?
People think "OOOH FBS Turtle - let's GB him" - warlords light or heavy out of FBS is safe against a GB attempt.


The heavy in FBS was buffed xD from 25 dmg to 30 dmg - you got something wrong dude

Xaviloga
09-20-2017, 10:44 AM
The heavy in FBS was buffed xD from 25 dmg to 30 dmg - you got something wrong dude

I wanted to say that IF they nerf the heavy then you can reduce the FB activation time. If not you cant reduce the time becuse its too op ability then. I didnt say the heavy was nerfed. English is not my main lenguage, obviouslys. Sorry.

S0Mi_xD
09-20-2017, 10:57 AM
I wanted to say that IF they nerf the heavy then you can reduce the FB activation time. If not you cant reduce the time becuse its too op ability then. I didnt say the heavy was nerfed. English is not my main lenguage, obviouslys. Sorry.

OK sorry, naaaa it's fine ;)
things like this happen, as long as you explain yourself it is fine.

But still the problem isn't that the counter from FBS is to strong, the problem would be, you couldn't throw any attacks except melee attacks without a huge risk.

This would be a similar problem like Parry now - it is easy to parry and parry rewards freaking high.
A defensive tool to go full offense is just a big flaw in a game like for honor, the result is turtles ;)

It is still possible to punish lights with the FBS, but not purely on reaction but with a liiiiittttle bit of guessing ^^.
As soon as you adapt to your enemies playstyle, you will know when to throw them.

gj4063
09-20-2017, 01:59 PM
It is still possible to punish lights with the FBS, but not purely on reaction but with a liiiiittttle bit of guessing ^^.
As soon as you adapt to your enemies playstyle, you will know when to throw them.

I disagree. The lead time necessary to 'guess' when to use FBS is all the time youe opponent needs to GB you instead of that side light. It's broken. If the defensive meta needs to change, is rather see WLs recovery and reaction times restored and add a recovery time (3 sec) before another parry or light from fbs can be done again.

gj4063
09-20-2017, 02:01 PM
... but don't add a delay in GB or heavys.

S0Mi_xD
09-20-2017, 02:38 PM
I disagree. The lead time necessary to 'guess' when to use FBS is all the time youe opponent needs to GB you instead of that side light. It's broken. If the defensive meta needs to change, is rather see WLs recovery and reaction times restored and add a recovery time (3 sec) before another parry or light from fbs can be done again.

I pointed out a special ability that (it seems like just a few people know this) is called adaptation.

It should be a basic ability in life and also useful in video games (as far as I heard)

I tried it once and was really surprised by it's results. Now my, I use it anywhere in my live.

Call now and get an Extra amount of Understanding. Only now +69 8u77 5H1T !!

Charmzzz
09-20-2017, 02:46 PM
I disagree. The lead time necessary to 'guess' when to use FBS is all the time youe opponent needs to GB you instead of that side light. It's broken. If the defensive meta needs to change, is rather see WLs recovery and reaction times restored and add a recovery time (3 sec) before another parry or light from fbs can be done again.

Yeah, give WL back the dodge recovery times of Assassins (well, even better than those actually) because he is a Heavy class. Oh wait...

WL recovery times:
Side dash recovery 500ms.
Forward dash recovery 400ms.
Back dash recovery 700ms.

PK:
(All) Dash recovery 500ms.

Orochi:
Forward dash recovery 600ms
Side dash recovery 600ms
Back dash recovery 700ms

Zerker:
(all) Dash recovery 600ms

It was broken on a Heavy who additionally has Hyperarmor on Heavy, spammable unblockable melee with guaranteed light, guaranteed heavy from gb/parry, best gb throw, fast and hard hitting zone, and the best feat combination (if you want to add 4v4 modes). WL literally had NO, 0, nada, downside in his kit.

My.Insanity
09-20-2017, 03:05 PM
It was broken on a Heavy who additionally has Hyperarmor on Heavy, spammable unblockable melee with guaranteed light, guaranteed heavy from gb/parry, best gb throw, fast and hard hitting zone, and the best feat combination (if you want to add 4v4 modes). WL literally had NO, 0, nada, downside in his kit.

Full Block nerfed... Throw distanced nerfed... Parry + Crushing Counter nerfed... Attack dmg nerfed.... Stamina cost on headbutt and Full Guard increased... Headbutt not useable from Full Guard (only after successfull block)... Headbutt startup nerfed... Forward Dash into Headbutt startup nerfed 2.0.... Passiv feats (Deadly + Auto Revive) nerfed.... all Characters got the same Guard Switch like a Hero which is using a SHIELD !!!!.... recovery time nerfed.... in Full Guard unable to CGB...

im sorry if i forgot one or two.. there were so many nerfs.

How about they nerf PK next? Here are some ideas... zone attack unable to cancel and 300ms more startup time, heavys no longer give free lights, dash attacks now give free GB on block. Light attacks deal less dmg but an finisher heavy deals more.

Charmzzz
09-20-2017, 03:17 PM
Full Block nerfed... Throw distanced nerfed... Parry + Crushing Counter nerfed... Attack dmg nerfed.... Stamina cost on headbutt and Full Guard increased... Headbutt not useable from Full Guard (only after successfull block)... Headbutt startup nerfed... Forward Dash into Headbutt startup nerfed 2.0.... Passiv feats (Deadly + Auto Revive) nerfed.... all Characters got the same Guard Switch like a Hero which is using a SHIELD !!!!.... recovery time nerfed.... in Full Guard unable to CGB...

im sorry if i forgot one or two.. there were so many nerfs.

How about they nerf PK next? Here are some ideas... zone attack unable to cancel and 300ms more startup time, heavys no longer give free lights, dash attacks now give free GB on block. Light attacks deal less dmg but an finisher heavy deals more.

You forget to mention that all the moves that were nerfed have NO comparable move in any other heroes kit. Who could throw out a 400ms (same as PK zone with guaranteed 17 damage) unblockable melee with a guaranteed light? Who had the throw range of a catapult in any direction? Who could Full-Block-Turtle with available CGB into an unblockable melee with guaranteed light? Oh and WL has 140 HP btw, 3rd highest in the game only with LB higher (150) and Shugoki when he has constantly his Hyperarmor (160).

You keep telling me that my Main should be nerfed. I agree on nerfing Zone. The rest is showing that you have no idea of how the frame data, damage and recovery values are. Here some info for you:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6li63y/all_character_frame_data_excluding_dlc_characters/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=0

I get that you don't like your Main nerfed. Nobody does. But WL had the best kit by far. He was always top tier and still is. Look, I had to adapt to the nerfs of Light-Light (recovery time added), Zone nerf (recovery time added), nerf of side-dodge-attack (damage lowered) and since the removal of Timesnap PK is crippled in her Moveset (no heavy soft-feint into GB in chains possible anymore). But I am not crying about it, I just adapt.

Edit: WL in higher level play was like this:
- Turtle until you get a parry - free heavy or instant death via ledging
- go FBS and wait for guaranteed damage / win the round by waiting
- throw out an occasional, fast and hitting like a truck zone attack (600ms, 25 damage - 3rd fastest and 2nd highest damage zone in the game)
- 400ms unblockable melee with guaranteed 17 damage and low stamina cost, throwable from FBS (compare that to PK zone which is as fast, deals 20 damage but costs half her stamina, is not an unblockable/unparryable melee and always comes from your right side)

Edit 2: I agree on PK Light nerf if all Assassins stay at 100ms Guard Switch, and every other Character has 125/150ms except Shield Characters who get 150/175ms because they can Full-Block. Then they could add the CGB again to that stance.

My.Insanity
09-20-2017, 03:39 PM
I never said WL didnt need a change or nerfs.. he was (OP is a too powerfull word) very very good in many ways. But i think Ubisofts last nerf was a bit too much for him.

If you look into the future when the defensiv meta changes finaly hit this game (soon ... 2025 or so) you can see that he will suffer a lot from those new changes.

(his dodge range vs the new OOS punishment system, his crushing counter which is now much weaker, and his stamina consum)

gj4063
09-20-2017, 03:44 PM
I pointed out a special ability that (it seems like just a few people know this) is called adaptation.

It should be a basic ability in life and also useful in video games (as far as I heard)

I tried it once and was really surprised by it's results. Now my, I use it anywhere in my live.

Call now and get an Extra amount of Understanding. Only now +69 8u77 5H1T !!

This is my stock response to you git gud types. Not everyone is interested in learning to adapt to drastic changes, or to EVEN just the perception of imbalance or OP classes. They don't even come here to complain. They just quit. Hence why game population is so low on some games, like this one. So, if you want everyone to git gud and adapt, I hope they keep the door open for the three of you that do while the other millions of players movee on to whatever they perceive as greener pastures.

Netcode_err_404
09-20-2017, 04:16 PM
YOu cannot nerf pk like they nerfed wl, because at least warlord is a well thought class with so many advantages and so many good individual skills.

Pk is just a trash light spam machine without any other interesting mechanic. You need to rework her, not nerf.

<Especially now, without timesnap zones hit you even before the indicator flashes lol.

S0Mi_xD
09-20-2017, 04:16 PM
People are more and more spoiled with a fantasy called "perfect world" - everything needs to be on point.
People thing everything is perfect and claim that Ubisoft is the only bull.sh.it company that brings unfinished games.
I don't defend Ubi, they made many mistakes that could have been avoided in many of their games.

But there are more games with bugs and exploits that will be found after release, because they will be found by players like me, who explore every sh-itty part of the game and invest immense time playing it.

UbiNoty
09-20-2017, 11:30 PM
We've definitely heard you all and your issues with the WL changes we made, and we'll try to get some updates about our thoughts and analysis of the changes to you all soon.

SwellChemosabe
09-21-2017, 07:12 AM
People are more and more spoiled with a fantasy called "perfect world" - everything needs to be on point.
People thing everything is perfect and claim that Ubisoft is the only bull.sh.it company that brings unfinished games.
I don't defend Ubi, they made many mistakes that could have been avoided in many of their games.

But there are more games with bugs and exploits that will be found after release, because they will be found by players like me, who explore every sh-itty part of the game and invest immense time playing it.


I pointed out a special ability that (it seems like just a few people know this) is called adaptation.

It should be a basic ability in life and also useful in video games (as far as I heard)

I tried it once and was really surprised by it's results. Now my, I use it anywhere in my live.

Call now and get an Extra amount of Understanding. Only now +69 8u77 5H1T !!


Please keep in mind S0Mi this isn't directed at you personally but rather just a general statement (since you brought it up I thought i'd expand on it a bit)


The thing about it all though is that some gamers now absolutely expect everything to be perfect for them and if it isn't perfect it aint ****. We've reached a new era in gaming where aspects like practice and adaptability are not nearly as appreciated as they were 10, 15, even 20 years ago. Having to adapt has become an inconvenience in most games now because who wants to waste their time getting better at a video when they should be able to enjoy it regardless of their problem solving skills. If people have to spend hours and hours getting good at a single game just to be able to even slightly enjoy it then why wouldn't they give up and go back to COD or Halo, or literally any other game.

I'm not disagreeing with you, i'm just bringing up a perspective that more traditional gamers, one's who grew up memorizing maps and combos, enemy types, advantage points, etc. seem to ignore; Gaming should be fun, not a chore.

HOWEVER

I do agree that in this particular game, For Honor, adaptability is essential for that victory we work so hard for. You shouldn't pick this game up and immediately complain when everyone you play against, more than likely people who have been playing this game waaayyyy longer than you, are kicking your ***. And if you've been playing this game long enough you should know that practice and strategy play huge roles in every match, especially against that one hero you just can't quite beat.

so tell me this (and this is really just something to drive my point home) how the hell are you going to main a warlord, a hero that has been the end of many experienced players time and time again whether they be casual or professional, a hero that everyone has had to shape an entirely separate set of tactics for, a hero that has always been and even still is a significant enough of an asset to completely shift the outcome of a match in any game mode and a hero that has barely (and I do mean barely) been touched since release.........

and then ***** and moan about your hero getting several nerfs based on complaints from an entire playerbase specifically addressing those aspects.

Season 3, It's WL turn to adapt.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 07:38 AM
Please keep in mind S0Mi this isn't directed at you personally but rather just a general statement (since you brought it up I thought i'd expand on it a bit)


The thing about it all though is that some gamers now absolutely expect everything to be perfect for them and if it isn't perfect it aint ****. We've reached a new era in gaming where aspects like practice and adaptability are not nearly as appreciated as they were 10, 15, even 20 years ago. Having to adapt has become an inconvenience in most games now because who wants to waste their time getting better at a video when they should be able to enjoy it regardless of their problem solving skills. If people have to spend hours and hours getting good at a single game just to be able to even slightly enjoy it then why wouldn't they give up and go back to COD or Halo, or literally any other game.

I'm not disagreeing with you, i'm just bringing up a perspective that more traditional gamers, one's who grew up memorizing maps and combos, enemy types, advantage points, etc. seem to ignore; Gaming should be fun, not a chore.

HOWEVER

I do agree that in this particular game, For Honor, adaptability is essential for that victory we work so hard for. You shouldn't pick this game up and immediately complain when everyone you play against, more than likely people who have been playing this game waaayyyy longer than you, are kicking your ***. And if you've been playing this game long enough you should know that practice and strategy play huge roles in every match, especially against that one hero you just can't quite beat.

so tell me this (and this is really just something to drive my point home) how the hell are you going to main a warlord, a hero that has been the end of many experienced players time and time again whether they be casual or professional, a hero that everyone has had to shape an entirely separate set of tactics for, a hero that has always been and even still is a significant enough of an asset to completely shift the outcome of a match in any game mode and a hero that has barely (and I do mean barely) been touched since release.........

and then ***** and moan about your hero getting several nerfs based on complaints from an entire playerbase specifically addressing those aspects.

Season 3, It's WL turn to adapt.

Very well spoken, and I agree with you.

(want to add something to this - I do not feel offended, just want to express myself xD )
Just some knowledge about me, I am a traditional gamer (for me a traditional games is also someone who is not capped at one or 2 game genres)
I grew up with Nintendo 64 (Super Mario 64, Paper Mario, Mario Cart 64, Zelda, Super Smash Bros, Rift, In the Zone (Basketball game))
GameCube, All sequels from 64, Metroid Prime 1 and 2 and so on) nearly all Pokemon games on different handhelds/consoles
After that I switched to ps3 because wii and Wii U where bit disappointing and also my friends where on ps3 xD)

But ok, in short I play EVERYTHING, and everywhere you need the same skills, only that the adaptation in games like Zelda is, to think more logical or better in riddles, story telling etc.

The difference is, a multiplayer will always have a higher learning curve and the problem of For Honor is, it wants to be both.
Casually friendly but still competitive.
That's not possible without separating those through matchmaking, or at least balance the player on each side form their skill.
If there are 4 rep 1-6 player in one team and the other one is full with 50 + ... if they are not able to bring out a good matchmaking so fast, then they should at least balance the teams in the matches.
Its not a battle field with 32-64 players, its only 8 of them, it shouldn't be hard to mix them in a way so their total rep is similar from team to team.

Especially if 4v4 is the main mode and not 1v1.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 07:52 AM
If people have to spend hours and hours getting good at a single game just to be able to even slightly enjoy it then why wouldn't they give up and go back to COD or Halo, or literally any other game.


This is something I wanted to confront separate.

FUN is and should be the biggest reason to do anything, and this especially counts for games.

But fun, enjoyment those things have different definitions.

There are people, who enjoy a challenge, other enjoy to smack other player.
Enjoy a beautiful world or make your own world.
Pure storytelling, exploring.

Like you said, before buying a game people should wait and take a look at feedback.
But pre-order is a bad new trend, same as releasing games much to early.

Even now I enjoy those old Nintendo games emulated sometimes more than newer games.
And I think I will buy the switch, as soon as there is a release data for Metroid prime 4 (still hyped just from the logo xD)

SwellChemosabe
09-21-2017, 08:49 AM
Very well spoken, and I agree with you.

(want to add something to this - I do not feel offended, just want to express myself xD )
Just some knowledge about me, I am a traditional gamer (for me a traditional games is also someone who is not capped at one or 2 game genres)
I grew up with Nintendo 64 (Super Mario 64, Paper Mario, Mario Cart 64, Zelda, Super Smash Bros, Rift, In the Zone (Basketball game))
GameCube, All sequels from 64, Metroid Prime 1 and 2 and so on) nearly all Pokemon games on different handhelds/consoles
After that I switched to ps3 because wii and Wii U where bit disappointing and also my friends where on ps3 xD)

But ok, in short I play EVERYTHING, and everywhere you need the same skills, only that the adaptation in games like Zelda is, to think more logical or better in riddles, story telling etc.

The difference is, a multiplayer will always have a higher learning curve and the problem of For Honor is, it wants to be both.
Casually friendly but still competitive.
That's not possible without separating those through matchmaking, or at least balance the player on each side form their skill.
If there are 4 rep 1-6 player in one team and the other one is full with 50 + ... if they are not able to bring out a good matchmaking so fast, then they should at least balance the teams in the matches.
Its not a battle field with 32-64 players, its only 8 of them, it shouldn't be hard to mix them in a way so their total rep is similar from team to team.

Especially if 4v4 is the main mode and not 1v1.

I'm more of a Mut myself when it comes to gaming. I didn't get to enjoy many of the earlier games, but I do remember my first gaming system being a Nintendo ( I forget exactly which one, it was the one with the cartridge you had to blow on to make it work) and my dad would let me play his Atari from time to time. I can definitely appreciate how different genre's inspire different skills required to be good in a variety in games.

As for the matchmaking, I absolutely agree. I always feel bad when i'm matched up with any team with an overall rep that, even when collectively added together, equals less than mine. (which has been happening a lot more than I like)

Balancing multiplayer would go a long way to help newer players get into the game without having to get destroyed by even the one unfortunate veteran with rep 100+. (I have seen this and it's like john wick went back in time and traded his guns for blades and went ape **** because someone dented his dead wife's breast plate. Much like a train wreck; it's hard to watch but you just can't look away)


This is something I wanted to confront separate.

FUN is and should be the biggest reason to do anything, and this especially counts for games.

But fun, enjoyment those things have different definitions.

There are people, who enjoy a challenge, other enjoy to smack other player.
Enjoy a beautiful world or make your own world.
Pure storytelling, exploring.

Like you said, before buying a game people should wait and take a look at feedback.
But pre-order is a bad new trend, same as releasing games much to early.

Even now I enjoy those old Nintendo games emulated sometimes more than newer games.
And I think I will buy the switch, as soon as there is a release data for Metroid prime 4 (still hyped just from the logo xD)


You do have a good point. I don't mean to say that there's no enjoyment from a challenge. Personally, i'll never turn down a good puzzle or strategy based game as i'm sure neither would you or many others.

I do notice though that, and only from personal experience (no hard data here), typically it's the newest generation of gamers that would turn down games like this. Kids that love FPS with lots of action or great cinematic sequences with action; games that really get the blood and adrenaline flowing appeal most to these. Not all of them, but most.

I 100% know what you mean, pre-order is a terrible trend. What ever happened to demos? let me see what the game is all about before I buy it for $60-$80 and not just with some crazy edited footage from the most complete sequences you have before the game is ready.

I feel you there, the nostalgia is real :cool: I personally wouldn't mind a re-mastered Spyro game.

S0Mi_xD
09-21-2017, 09:11 AM
I'm more of a Mut myself when it comes to gaming. I didn't get to enjoy many of the earlier games, but I do remember my first gaming system being a Nintendo ( I forget exactly which one, it was the one with the cartridge you had to blow on to make it work) and my dad would let me play his Atari from time to time. I can definitely appreciate how different genre's inspire different skills required to be good in a variety in games.

As for the matchmaking, I absolutely agree. I always feel bad when i'm matched up with any team with an overall rep that, even when collectively added together, equals less than mine. (which has been happening a lot more than I like)

Balancing multiplayer would go a long way to help newer players get into the game without having to get destroyed by even the one unfortunate veteran with rep 100+. (I have seen this and it's like john wick went back in time and traded his guns for blades and went ape **** because someone dented his dead wife's breast plate. Much like a train wreck; it's hard to watch but you just can't look away)




You do have a good point. I don't mean to say that there's no enjoyment from a challenge. Personally, i'll never turn down a good puzzle or strategy based game as i'm sure neither would you or many others.

I do notice though that, and only from personal experience (no hard data here), typically it's the newest generation of gamers that would turn down games like this. Kids that love FPS with lots of action or great cinematic sequences with action; games that really get the blood and adrenaline flowing appeal most to these. Not all of them, but most.

I 100% know what you mean, pre-order is a terrible trend. What ever happened to demos? let me see what the game is all about before I buy it for $60-$80 and not just with some crazy edited footage from the most complete sequences you have before the game is ready.

I feel you there, the nostalgia is real :cool: I personally wouldn't mind a re-mastered Spyro game.

love spyro *_* ... that's right - where are all the demos .. they still exist but they are much to rare ...

Out of experience with my little brother and other younger relatives etc.

Most of them give up much to easy - they go into the internet and google it up.

I grew up with the experience, before you take the easy way, try it until you get it.
Sometimes I said to my brother, " don't go, you stay here and PLAY" "USE YOUR BRAIN - THINK" ... there have been moments where he started to cry.... and sure I gave him small tips if it was really hard.
But now he gets it much easier - he improved, even if it was harder then just looking it up.

I am still a person who tries to find everything by himself. ^^