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View Full Version : Shinobi ranged GB is cancer in 4v4



SplugeKing
09-18-2017, 03:30 AM
No other character get a GB while another teammate is engaged and swinging at you. Other characters, the GB doesn't register the enemy bounces back and you can continue fighting. Another plus which only shinobi gets is a team GB. You get yanked on your knees and enjoy your head bring decapitated by his friends. No other character in the game has this either. If you get GB and your enemies friend hits you with a heavy, the GB ends and you're able to fight after that first heavy.

Brilliant ubi.

We.the.North
09-18-2017, 04:51 AM
First : The ranged GB must obey all the rules of a normal GB. If you throw the ranged GB while your target is swinging or doing a GB of his own, your ranged GB will whiff. The timing must be done perfectly when you attempt it against someone already engaged in combat.

Second : You dont always get yanked to your knees. If at any point during the pull the Shinobi target humps against another player, it fails and the target will be able to block.

Third : The stun, albeit very strong, is just as strong as Shugoki's demon embrace or Centurion pin and knock down. Other heroes have it too. I'll agree it's the Shinobi strongest move in his arsenal and he pays the price 10x for it with the lowest health pool in the game.

Fourth : No other character in the game other than Shinobi will get one shotted by some heroes. A highlander heavy stagger the Shinobi so much the 2nd follow up heavy is guaranteed. With gear adding +21% damage and the 2nd feat unlocked, the Highlander will kill the Shinobi as soon the first hit of the celtic curse mix up hits. That's right, 2 Heavies from Highlander will deal more than 90 damage.


I highly encourage you to read more about the Shinobi on various forums, you'll realise Shinobi is in a very bad place at the moment and few players actually want a Shinobi in their Dominion's team. Other heroes are just that much more useful without the dreadful health pool.

SplugeKing
09-18-2017, 05:10 AM
Lol read about the shinobi. Yea played the game more than you bud. Stun? What r u talking about I didn't say anything about a stun. #2, maybe it's you that needs to "read about the shinobi on other forums" doesn't always result in you on your knees? Ok wow don't even know how to respond to something that dumb. #1 nope happens to me all the time

kweassa1
09-18-2017, 08:03 AM
Lol read about the shinobi. Yea played the game more than you bud. Stun? What r u talking about I didn't say anything about a stun. #2, maybe it's you that needs to "read about the shinobi on other forums" doesn't always result in you on your knees? Ok wow don't even know how to respond to something that dumb. #1 nope happens to me all the time

Sorry to burst your bubble, but North is 100% right on this one. Every point he made is the exact point I would have made.

matt89connor
09-18-2017, 09:33 AM
No other character get a GB while another teammate is engaged and swinging at you. Other characters, the GB doesn't register the enemy bounces back and you can continue fighting. Another plus which only shinobi gets is a team GB. You get yanked on your knees and enjoy your head bring decapitated by his friends. No other character in the game has this either. If you get GB and your enemies friend hits you with a heavy, the GB ends and you're able to fight after that first heavy.

Brilliant ubi.

shinobi is an assassin very weak and so is very hard to face always at close range; the range GB and heavy, BTW, if parried, remove the balance of shinobi, i saw many shinobi fall down in the holes because after parry or counter by the enemy they fall to foward and they die, so yes, the range attacks is a great help, but is very risky

Malyngo
09-18-2017, 09:33 AM
I also have a hard time against this move. In one match, a Shinobi kept doing that, I was on my knees, he slapped me in the face a few times to then flick flack out of reach to do it all over again.
I figured that there is probably an easy counter for it, because it seemed so OP to me, is there?

matt89connor
09-18-2017, 09:41 AM
I also have a hard time against this move. In one match, a Shinobi kept doing that, I was on my knees, he slapped me in the face a few times to then flick flack out of reach to do it all over again.
I figured that there is probably an easy counter for it, because it seemed so OP to me, is there?

sorry, you speak about the 3 stab attacks after you take a GB from him?

DrinkinMehStella
09-18-2017, 11:01 AM
break away from the gank and kill the shinobi, I love facing a shinobi so easy to beat.

SenBotsu893
09-18-2017, 02:54 PM
here is a little tip for you: its called counter guard break. makes shinobi fall to the floor and get himself killed.
end of story.

thats right. a cgb makes shinobi fall down. nobody else has such a insane handycap.

and as others have already mentioned the ranged gb has to follow the rules of everyother gb.

furthermore if you are so annoyed about the sickle rain combo because it makes you cannonfodder for other gankers then i am sure you love the ub stampede charge of the raider.
or the pancake flip of the Lawbringer. Valks shieldcharge is similar in that regard because they can knock you onto the ground while you are busy fighting off someone else. Shogukis embrace is also critical (even though the tracking is almost non existing anyomre and it will damage shugoki himself if missed).

Devils-_-legacy
09-19-2017, 07:52 PM
I love this thread lol but it's high risk move I've been pulled off edges killed just from being parried as a shinobi

We.the.North
09-19-2017, 11:16 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but North is 100% right on this one. Every point he made is the exact point I would have made.

I never though I would read a comment like that over the internet. I can die happy, I believe in miracles.

UbiJurassic
09-20-2017, 01:17 AM
I never though I would read a comment like that over the internet. I can die happy, I believe in miracles.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/12TqMvey6k0TSg/giphy.gif

kweassa1
09-20-2017, 09:03 AM
I also have a hard time against this move. In one match, a Shinobi kept doing that, I was on my knees, he slapped me in the face a few times to then flick flack out of reach to do it all over again.
I figured that there is probably an easy counter for it, because it seemed so OP to me, is there?

There is.

The most basic thing, which in 4v4 modes being of absolute importance, is situational awareness. Opponents don't magically shadow-step or teleport to your position from 50 feet away in this game. Stealth erases radar tracking but still clearly visible. In other words, preemptively avoiding a gank is entirely possible in any 4v4 mode. So if you aren't too confident about 1v2 situations, making sure you avoid being ganked in the first place is of utmost importance. Try to keep track of enemy positions, keep a lookout on the "<" ">" icons on the screen to approximate where both enemies and allies are, always take a peek at the radar in regular intervals, access the team screen to see which people are alive, and always scan around to be on the lookout for stealth-feat using opponents if the enemy team has assassins in their ranks.

All of the above is vital information that is entirely possible to process and correctly anticipate what will happen. For example, if a lot of your allies are dead and the opponents outnumber you in the field, then the risk of gank is proportionately much higher than usual... and this risk is even higher in Dominion than Elim or Skirm because Dom has objective points which require continuous access to win. When you are fighting at one corner of the map, and when you see a nearby zone being captured by the enemy team, the chances are also high that the guy who captured that zone would venture out and probably head your way... etc etc etc...


When basic awareness fails you and you are indeed ganked, or, if you've chosen to stay your ground and fight it out to the end, then this is actually when "turtling" becomes important. This applies in any outnumbered situation -- ALWAYS keep in your FOV the most dangerous opponent outside your main target. Typically these are classes like the Shugoki, Valkyrie, Lawbringer, Centurion and the Shinobi. All capable disablers. In case of the Shinobi he always telegraphs his ranged attack in a very visual manner by spinning around the chain sickle. (There are bug abusers who use the double-dodge canceling to let off a ranged attack without giving away any spinning motion, but these guys are quite rare). Ranged attack is easily blocked, and so long as it's within your FOV ranged GB can be CGBd easily.

The most ideal positioning would be to always try to block the Shinobi's LOS by keeping a straight LOS that connects you - targeted opponent - shinobi... or making good use of terrain features or minions. The Shinobi will continuously try to flank you to go outside your FOV, which means you actually have to keep on repositioning yourself accordingly ... this actually dictates how you move more than what your main target does. The Shinobi tries to flank you and get outside your FOV, you pull back to delay that from happening.

Done correctly, your chances of surviving until help comes is greatly enhanced.


Final tip would be to not trust Revenge too much... at least, don't think that Revenge is going to give you a chance to win that fight. Think it as a very important opportunity to gain some major distance, and possibly even run away from the situation. For example a class like the Shugoki doesn't need to worry about stamina and can just turn back and Oni-charge straight away from tge scene... most classes can dash away and use rolls to gain a LOT of distances without worrying about stamina or being damaged, since in most cases the increased temp shielding is more than enough to shrug off a few hits.

kweassa1
09-20-2017, 09:12 AM
I never though I would read a comment like that over the internet. I can die happy, I believe in miracles.

No miracles there.

My school of thought has ever been the same -- "there is no involuntary gank".


1. any gank situation in the game is always purely voluntary -- it is of one's own fault

2. there are boatloads of different methods to avoid being ganked

3. avoiding being outnumbered, and at the same time outnumbering your enemies, is the basic of basics in any team/squad PvP game.

4. if you're always being outnumbered because your team dies off too easily, then your team's simply weaker than theirs -- natural thing to happen

5. being ganked because it's a "team breaking" situation simply means your team lost, and it's the end of the game. Again, natural thing to happen

6. If you're always being ganked despite most of your team members are alive, it is one of two possibilities: (1) your teammates are clueless morons who don't assist teammates in trouble, or (2) you're a clueless moron that just runs around solo in a team game ...both are equally frightening. :rolleyes:


** a rare set of 3rd, and 4th and 5th possibilities **

-- (3) both you and your team are morons
-- (4) you and/or your team may be legit, but the opponent team is simply overwhelmingly skilled than all of you
-- (5) you and your teams are morons, AND the opponent is overwhelmingly powerful ... it's instances like these when something like a 16 - 1,000 game happens with your team's total takedown count is less than 10, while the opponent takedowns are like 50 combined....



Before people complain about certain classes being too dangerous in 4v4 modes and ganks, people should be asking themselves "what did I do to stop this from happening first... and my observation of the game tells me that 99% of people don't do shi* about it. They just play blindedly, and jump into situations without thinking it through. Any situation happening nearby they just head there, get into a fight, and then get outnumbered and die.

So complaining about how the Cent is too strong in 4v4 is a stupid thing to do, and so is complaining about Shinobis, or Shug Dembrace, or Valk sweeps, or Lawb pancake flippin' ... etc etc ad nauseam.


It's a coherent line of reasoning, not a miracle. :p