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View Full Version : Why PK has a free GB after he's thrown ?



Jarl.Felix
09-17-2017, 03:25 PM
Take this example : you shield bash him with conq, he falls down, you do a heavy hit and BEFORE he gets up PK just press GB and it's a free GB ?

Why ?

We all understand PK is a class designed for lowbies to have fun, but still...

Arekonator
09-17-2017, 03:58 PM
Thats problem with conqueror, not with PK, any class can get free GB from conq in that situation.

Xinlyfenne
09-17-2017, 04:00 PM
All classes get a free GB after that, not only PK.

You can't stagger an opponent when they're getting up -- so you would be in the recovery state after a heavy when they GB you.

ArchDukeInstinct
09-18-2017, 12:23 AM
As previously mentioned, any class can do that to conqueror.

I would like to add in that you shouldn't even bother with that shield crush move while out of a lock on state. It blows like half of your stamina, is easily dodged and punished at higher levels of play, and the best you can get done even if it is successful is the lowest damage heavy in the game that will then give them a free gb that will likely lead into a guaranteed heavy that does more damage than yours.

kweassa1
09-18-2017, 02:32 AM
Like others have said, it's got nothing to do with Conqs, so Conq fanbois can go chill.


It's a universal problem that exists with ANY knockdown situation in the game. When a character is knocked down, it receives UI state when getting up, This is presumably to prevent the attacker getting too much of an advantage by using guaranteed combos... and the instance where this works correctly, for example, is when the Centurion lands a heavy / charged heavy / UB heavy on a knocked down opponent. In this case the next jab or charged jab can be dodged despite being hit with a heavy that usually always guarantees the jab part.

The problem is, this design has more instances where it doesn't work well. And one such case is this one discussed in the thread: when the attacker makes good use of the opportunity and hits the downed target with an attack that has long animations and recovery times, the target does get hit, but is not staggered due to the UI, and can immediately GB the other guy during his attack recovery time.

Attacking a downed Shinobi after you CGB the ranged GB, a Shugoki knocking an OOS opponent and hitting him with charged heavy... etc etc, many similar cases exist.

ArchDukeInstinct
09-18-2017, 03:55 AM
Like others have said, it's got nothing to do with Conqs, so Conq fanbois can go chill.

That's actually the opposite of what everyone else is saying (except OP). They're saying it's a conqueror issue as opposed to a peace keeper one.

The mechanic of not being able to stagger someone who is standing up is indeed universal. What isn't universal is having heavy attacks that are as slow as the conquerors while also doing the least damage in the game and the recovery time on the shield crush. These combined are what provides the window to do an untechable guard break.


This is presumably to prevent the attacker getting too much of an advantage by using guaranteed combos...

Except of course with shield crush you're getting no advantage at all because at best you blow half your stamina to get a single light attack(also the weakest in the game) in or you blow half of your stamina to do a heavy attack that they can then trade with a higher damage heavy guaranteed.

It's not even a high risk low reward, it's high risk and you come out worse. You don't need to be a "conq fanboi" to see that one.


a Shugoki knocking an OOS opponent and hitting him with charged heavy... etc etc, many similar cases exist.

Case in point, that charged shugoki heavy is taking 1/3rd or more of their health easily. He also has the highest health pool in the game so taking trades is less costly compared to a conqueror. He's also only one parry near a wall away from regaining whatever health was lost in that trade while doing even more damage to you. Furthermore in that situation, that charged heavy has no risk of being evaded and doing nothing at all. So no, it's not similar at all.

kweassa1
09-18-2017, 09:14 AM
The mechanic of not being able to stagger someone who is standing up is indeed universal. What isn't universal is having heavy attacks that are as slow as the conquerors while also doing the least damage in the game and the recovery time on the shield crush. These combined are what provides the window to do an untechable guard break

3 things:

1. Conq heavies aren'r particularly slow. Top heavy is about average, sides are actually faster than most.
2. Any singular attack from any class that has approximately similar recovery time of an average heavy attack suffers exact same thing
3. Conq heavy attack after the charging shield crush is some sort of an undocumented special "downed attack" and is not a normal heavy

There's literally no reason to believe this impacts the Conq more than anyone else. The only weird thing is no.3 above, which I have some ideas on what the devs might have been thinking when they implemented it... but i don't necessarily agree with it.




It's not even a high risk low reward, it's high risk and you come out worse. You don't need to be a "conq fanboi" to see that one.

Simply untrue. Any "strong" knockdown move in the game carries exact same risks.

By "strong" I mean a knockdown skill that puts the target into one of the longer versions knockdown with enough time for the initiator to land a heavy. Not a lot of those exist in the game. One of them is Valk's sweep. Puts the opponent into long knockdown, enough time to guarantee a heavy. When dodged, the Valk's open for all sorts of punishment. Another one is the Highlander's Cabertoss. Very weak against dodges, also all sorts of punishment if it misses. Warden's full charged SB... I wouldn't even need to describe why this is a huge risk and nobody uses it.

Other than these handful, most knockdowns in the game give you barely enough time to land a light... and many of them carry also the exact same risks despite no real rewards existing. Lawb's long arm for example -- not enough time for any strong attack. If it misses, lawb needs to pray.

The only existing exception is the Cent who has a guaranteed situation with a guaranteed special downed attack move.. and look at how much flame he gets for it.



TL;DR -- simplified explanation[/n]
Q: "Why don't other classes seem to suffer this as badly?"
A: "Because other classes don't even have any strong knockdowns to land heavies in the first place."





Case in point, that charged shugoki heavy is taking 1/3rd or more of their health easily. He also has the highest health pool in the game so taking trades is less costly compared to a conqueror.

Case is wrong.

Being GBd automaically equates to UI hyperarmor being turned off, which means the opponent gets a universal damage buff of 25% = shug gets a universal defense debuff of 25% = effectively his HP is 120 when UI turns off.

Case in example:

Shug lands a charged heavy on a downed Centurion. 60 damage. That's big. 54% of the Cent HP gone. But the Cent GBs the Shug, UI is removed, throws to wall, charged heavy, charged jab, eagle talon...normally this deals 65 damage, but to a Shug that's 81.25 damage. 50.7% HP gone in one attack.

When the UI is turned off, the Shug isn't 160HP any more. All incoming damage is 25% increase, which effectively is the same thing as having 120 HP when UI turns off. There is no "trading" anything when the UI's turned off for the Shug.

Another case in exampke: The Raider has 45 top heavy damage and 140 HP. The Shug has same 45 top heavy damage with 160 HP. "Trade" blows with the UI off..... and the Raider survives 4 blows from the shug.

The Shug dies in three..


...so, what did you say shugs are supposed to "trade" again?




He's also only one parry near a wall away from regaining whatever health was lost in that trade while doing even more damage to you. Furthermore in that situation, that charged heavy has no risk of being evaded and doing nothing at all. So no, it's not similar at all.

You know how lame that argument is?

That's like saying "it's Ok if the Conq gets GBd after he lands a heavy. Any damage he gets, he can simply use his bullshi* superior block to just turtle up and not get damaged any more... and slowly chip away against the other guy to still win". Or how about, "it's OK if you can get GBd by the Shinobi after CGBing his ranged GB and you land a heavy. He's so low in HP that that attack probably snuffed half of his HP and he'll probably lose".

You're bringing in outside factors and unforeseen and uncalculable "what-if" scenarios to justify that this universal problem is somehow biased more heavily towards just the Conq.


It's basically grasping at straws, man.

Arekonator
09-18-2017, 07:21 PM
Except this actually is biased aganist conq, because you are likely to come out worse even if your attack is successful, which simply isnt the case for any other situation i can recall.
You specifically mentioned Valk and LB. Lets set aside for a moment how hard and risky those knockdowns are to land, because if you actually land them, you can freely followup with +/- the same damage that you were risking to take. And you are safe from getting GBd as they get up, because you can follow the heavy with either shove/shieldbash or a light. I didnt properly test it but any character with heavy > light chain should be grab-proof by opponents standing up (best seen at shinobi ranged CGB).
As conqueror you either get in a light which does measly 12 damage, which makes risk-reward ratio quite bad, or get in 25 damage heavy and eat at minimum same ammount in return, but likely 30 or more, which means you get punished for successfully landing an attack thats quite risky to attempt to begin with.
Thats the whole point of the complaint.

Devils-_-legacy
09-18-2017, 09:24 PM
Tbf why are you arguing the conquer needs a buff no matter who he's going up against I havnt seen one in weeks and when I do I don't find them as much a challenge as the other hero's but I love the hero just a shame he's pretty useless now

ArchDukeInstinct
09-19-2017, 07:21 AM
3 things:

1. Conq heavies aren'r particularly slow. Top heavy is about average, sides are actually faster than most.
2. Any singular attack from any class that has approximately similar recovery time of an average heavy attack suffers exact same thing
3. Conq heavy attack after the charging shield crush is some sort of an undocumented special "downed attack" and is not a normal heavy

Well even if I was to accept your idea that conq heavies are average for the sake of argument, that still would do nothing to prevent the fact that shield crush is worthless which is my whole point. You either blow half of your stamina in something easily punishable and the best you can get is a light, or you take a worse trade if you do a heavy. Why is this somehow controversial to you? It's a whole move down the drain in an already virtually empty moveset.


There's literally no reason to believe this impacts the Conq more than anyone else. The only weird thing is no.3 above, which I have some ideas on what the devs might have been thinking when they implemented it... but i don't necessarily agree with it.

Well I would say so like I mentioned one whole move down the drain, it's also the only other opener conq has really in a class that has almost 0 offensive capability as it is. Why is this even a big deal to you anyway?


Simply untrue. Any "strong" knockdown move in the game carries exact same risks.

By "strong" I mean a knockdown skill that puts the target into one of the longer versions knockdown with enough time for the initiator to land a heavy. Not a lot of those exist in the game. One of them is Valk's sweep. Puts the opponent into long knockdown, enough time to guarantee a heavy. When dodged, the Valk's open for all sorts of punishment. Another one is the Highlander's Cabertoss. Very weak against dodges, also all sorts of punishment if it misses. Warden's full charged SB... I wouldn't even need to describe why this is a huge risk and nobody uses it.

My complaint isn't that shield crush is punishable,it's that you're still come out worse than the opponent even if it lands. Why is this difficult?


Other than these handful, most knockdowns in the game give you barely enough time to land a light... and many of them carry also the exact same risks despite no real rewards existing. Lawb's long arm for example -- not enough time for any strong attack. If it misses, lawb needs to pray.

Right and remember that specific move was actually buffed (not saying it's good now either) and also lawbringer was considered extremely low tier by pretty much everyone for a good bit of time? And he has more a little more health than conqueror and does significantly more damage with his heavies (better trading potential).

Comparing it to another useless move, proves my point.


The only existing exception is the Cent who has a guaranteed situation with a guaranteed special downed attack move.. and look at how much flame he gets for it.

He gets flamed for getting rid half of your health any time you hit a wall or get light parried. At no point did anyone argue that shield crush should somehow be guaranteed to hit either so wtf? Also shield crush can't be guaranteed off of a variable timed charged heavy and I would say the timing window to avoid it is just way more lenient as well.




TL;DR -- simplified explanation[/n]
Q: "Why don't other classes seem to suffer this as badly?"
A: "Because other classes don't even have any strong knockdowns to land heavies in the first place."


I'm sure they're extremely envious that they didn't get one of their moveset slots wasted on a shield crush like move, though given they likely have a higher damage heavy, it would still work better for them than it does for conqueror.



Case is wrong.

Being GBd automaically equates to UI hyperarmor being turned off, which means the opponent gets a universal damage buff of 25% = shug gets a universal defense debuff of 25% = effectively his HP is 120 when UI turns off.

Case in example:

Shug lands a charged heavy on a downed Centurion. 60 damage. That's big. 54% of the Cent HP gone. But the Cent GBs the Shug, UI is removed, throws to wall, charged heavy, charged jab, eagle talon...normally this deals 65 damage, but to a Shug that's 81.25 damage. 50.7% HP gone in one attack.

Wow great example..... For me! You've just illustrated perfectly how even in the most favorable situation for the downed opponent, the shugoki STILL takes more of their health than vice versa, clearly winning the trade. Not bad against an OP combo. It's lights out for centurion if this trade happens again and shugoki is still at half of his health (2nd combo from centurion won't come out because he'll be dead, I know I have to explain that one for you)

Now lets try with conqueror:

Conqueror health = 140
Conqueror heavy = 25
Centurion health = 110
Centurion wall combo = 65

25 / 110 = 23% (rounded up)
65 / 140 = 46% (rounded down)

So centurion takes double the amount of the conqueror's health than vice versa.

Now let's say there is no wall, the centurion only does 25. Conqueror obviously wins this trade, doing a mere 4% more. It's something at least. Now lets talk about the stamina position which is going to be absolute garbage for the conqueror. Doing a shield crush is roughly half of your stamina. Then he did a heavy attack then the centurion got a guaranteed jab after the guaranteed heavy after the guaranteed guard break. So the conqueror, he's on the verge of being in OOS if not already.

I would have to test to confirm, but centurion might actually be able to get the rest of conqueror's stamina removed with his guard break jabs and then throw him onto the ground into a free charged heavy which would probably put him back in the lead on the trade and have the conqueror in OOS for sure.

And centurion is one of the best hopes for shield crush to trade off well because centurion also only does 25 damage heavies while having a very low health, but even here he seems to come out on top overall.


When the UI is turned off, the Shug isn't 160HP any more. All incoming damage is 25% increase, which effectively is the same thing as having 120 HP when UI turns off. There is no "trading" anything when the UI's turned off for the Shug.

Another case in exampke: The Raider has 45 top heavy damage and 140 HP. The Shug has same 45 top heavy damage with 160 HP. "Trade" blows with the UI off..... and the Raider survives 4 blows from the shug.

The Shug dies in three..


...so, what did you say shugs are supposed to "trade" again?

I have no experience in raider vs shugoki but even I know raider can't get a heavy off a guard break unless they drastically changed how his guard break works or it's just completely different when it's a shugoki specifically. So RIP your argument. Even if it is valid, that's one class anyway lol and a pretty rare one at that too, so it hardly destroys the idea that shugoki can trade well.



You know how lame that argument is?

That's like saying "it's Ok if the Conq gets GBd after he lands a heavy. Any damage he gets, he can simply use his bullshi* superior block to just turtle up and not get damaged any more... and slowly chip away against the other guy to still win". [/b] Or how about, "it's OK if you can get GBd by the Shinobi after CGBing his ranged GB and you land a heavy. He's so low in HP that that attack probably snuffed half of his HP and he'll probably lose".

How merely maintaining the remaining health you have is the same as getting health back while doing even more damage to the opponent both health and stamina wise is uhhh.... I don't even know what to say.


You're bringing in outside factors and unforeseen and uncalculable "what-if" scenarios to justify that this universal problem is somehow biased more heavily towards just the Conq.

Okay so walls being near when a shugoki gets a parry is an unforeseen and incalculable "what-if" scenario, but a wall is always there when an OOS centurion gets knocked down by a shugoki in your example. You're clearly very unbiased and apply equal standards.


It's basically grasping at straws, man.

Says the guy who clearly rigged the shugoki and centurion example and still ended up only proving my point. It's no wonder you lose to conquerors if you play this game as badly as you argue.

Charmzzz
09-19-2017, 08:33 AM
This Thread is hilarious. First it is a PK complain which gets completely destroyed. Then it becomes a "Conq needs a buff" vs "How mechanics work in this game" debate. Just stop it kweassa1, this guy just wants to point out how "bad" Conq is.

Now DukeInstinct, why should Conq have a good offensive? Can you elaborate? You know he is designed to be defensive, right? You know he is one of the best point defenders in Dominion vs multiple opponents, right? He was designed to be a turtle (sadly everyone turtles...). And in Dominion he is one of the best gankers with his running knockdown. While I agree that he is bs in 1on1 situations I have to say that I don't think the Devs wanted the Conq to be good at this particularly. They always said their main mode is Dominion and they balance around that.

ArchDukeInstinct
09-19-2017, 10:10 AM
This Thread is hilarious. First it is a PK complain which gets completely destroyed. Then it becomes a "Conq needs a buff" vs "How mechanics work in this game" debate. Just stop it kweassa1, this guy just wants to point out how "bad" Conq is.

At no point do I say to give conqueror a buff in this entire thread. All I've been doing is pointing out that shield crush is a worthless move and other conquerors shouldn't bother using it. The OP mentioned shield crush so I talked about shield crush. Sorry for trying to help other conquerors out I guess? It appears it somehow inflamed kwessa's pitiful, yet highly amusing butt hurt regarding conquerors but I'm sure they'll be fine.


Now DukeInstinct, why should Conq have a good offensive? Can you elaborate?

Did I say conqueror should have a good "offensive"? No I didn't.
Should conqueror have a move that uses up half of his stamina and at best you take more damage than you deal out to the opponent? Not really, seems pretty pointless to me.
Should you use such a move when there's better options? Obviously not but not every newcomer to conqueror will understand the intricacies of it, thus why I pointed it.


You know he is designed to be defensive, right?

Yes.


You know he is one of the best point defenders in Dominion vs multiple opponents, right?

Yes. Defending points is the role of all heavy classes in dominion. Sadly this appears to be news to you.


He was designed to be a turtle (sadly everyone turtles...).

I know what conqueror is designed to do, I'm rep 16 with the class and have mained this class since open beta. Thanks for telling me anyway you pretentious windbag. Now can you actually get to a point, you take longer than a centurion cutscene.


And in Dominion he is one of the best gankers with his running knockdown.

You're still talking about dominion?


While I agree that he is bs in 1on1 situations

Wait, so we wasted all that time just for you to basically agree with something I never said in this thread but you tried to crap on me for anyway?


I have to say that I don't think the Devs wanted the Conq to be good at this particularly.
They always said their main mode is Dominion and they balance around that.

*bzzzzt* WRONG

A) Community managers have already confirmed on multiple occasions that the dev team plans to buff conqueror, they are waiting for defensive meta patch to account for it properly.
B) Ranked duel tournaments. Why would they have a ranked duel if they don't care about 1v1 balance? That makes no sense.
C) Centurions. Centurions absolutely wreck 4v4 modes. They would have been nerfed to the ground already if 4v4 balance was the only focus with regards to balance. The only thing that has been saving them is the worry that they could turn bad in 1v1 if nerfed for 4v4.
D) How about we cripple your main in 1v1? Are you cool with that?

Charmzzz
09-19-2017, 10:43 AM
Alright, you Sir are getting way to personal. Reported.

Now I will just answer to your last sentences:

A) How come you know that the Devs will buff his offensive? I think Conq will stay the brick wall he currently is, just some tweaks here and there. I bet he does not get buffed pretty much on the offensive side. Anyway, you have your assumptions and I have mine.

B) Ranked Duel Tournaments, are you serios? That is your argument? They couldnt release 4v4 Ranked cause they wait for the dedicated Server-Infrastructure (said on Warriors Den several weeks ago). They could only release Duel Ranked because who wants a Ranked System where you get disconnected alot and which can be lag-manipulated by players? Sorry, that is a non-true argument from your side.

C) Cent in 4v4 is just like every other Character with unblockable melees. It is godmode in ganks, just like the Conq Shield bashing / crushing you in a 1v2.

D) My main got already "crippled" since release, I think the first 4 patches nothing else than nerfs. And I don't whine about it. You can even nerf her more as long as I get something back - like an UB move or Hyperarmor or guaranteed double Light. Where is the connection to this thread?

DrinkinMyStella
09-19-2017, 12:14 PM
Alright, you Sir are getting way to personal. Reported.

Now I will just answer to your last sentences:

A) How come you know that the Devs will buff his offensive? I think Conq will stay the brick wall he currently is, just some tweaks here and there. I bet he does not get buffed pretty much on the offensive side. Anyway, you have your assumptions and I have mine.

B) Ranked Duel Tournaments, are you serios? That is your argument? They couldnt release 4v4 Ranked cause they wait for the dedicated Server-Infrastructure (said on Warriors Den several weeks ago). They could only release Duel Ranked because who wants a Ranked System where you get disconnected alot and which can be lag-manipulated by players? Sorry, that is a non-true argument from your side.

C) Cent in 4v4 is just like every other Character with unblockable melees. It is godmode in ganks, just like the Conq Shield bashing / crushing you in a 1v2.

D) My main got already "crippled" since release, I think the first 4 patches nothing else than nerfs. And I don't whine about it. You can even nerf her more as long as I get something back - like an UB move or Hyperarmor or guaranteed double Light. Where is the connection to this thread?

where ever you are there seems to be a big dispute when ever anyone mentions anything to do with PK

CandleInTheDark
09-19-2017, 01:37 PM
In all honesty, if all charging attacks were like conqueror's is, not that useful 1v1 but useful in team games where you can knock over someone or one of a couple people beating on your ally and your partner got a free heavy out of it (at least that is how I use it when my team needs a tank) there would be less charge cheese in 1v1.


D) My main got already "crippled" since release, I think the first 4 patches nothing else than nerfs.

Worst thing is none of those nerfs dealt with what actually drove her toxic reputation and hack streamers continue to keep that going winning matches with nothing but lights and forward dodge they didn't even learn how to get deep gouge after.

ArchDukeInstinct
09-20-2017, 02:46 AM
Alright, you Sir are getting way to personal. Reported.

For what? Calling you a pretentious windbag? Don't count on it.


A) How come you know that the Devs will buff his offensive? I think Conq will stay the brick wall he currently is, just some tweaks here and there. I bet he does not get buffed pretty much on the offensive side. Anyway, you have your assumptions and I have mine.

So you've went from "conq won't get buffs because the devs don't want him to be good in 1v1" to "what kind of buffs will conq be getting?" lol


B) Ranked Duel Tournaments, are you serios? That is your argument? They couldnt release 4v4 Ranked cause they wait for the dedicated Server-Infrastructure (said on Warriors Den several weeks ago). They could only release Duel Ranked because who wants a Ranked System where you get disconnected alot and which can be lag-manipulated by players? Sorry, that is a non-true argument from your side.

What's your point? 1v1 ranked tournament still exists regardless of if a 4v4 ranked mode exists or not and the words "ranked" and "tournament" aren't there for show.


C) Cent in 4v4 is just like every other Character with unblockable melees. It is godmode in ganks, just like the Conq Shield bashing / crushing you in a 1v2.

Well except for the 50% of your health cutscene that he can charge from outside of your view while you're fighting someone else.


D) My main got already "crippled" since release, I think the first 4 patches nothing else than nerfs. And I don't whine about it. You can even nerf her more as long as I get something back - like an UB move or Hyperarmor or guaranteed double Light. Where is the connection to this thread?

That's exactly the kind of response I was hoping to get from you. You say 1v1 balance doesn't matter and yet here you are saying the only way you would take a nerf in 1v1 unless you get something else to keep it balanced.

kweassa1
09-20-2017, 08:08 AM
Same thing happens to every class in the game put in the same situation due to a universal problem from a design flaw/overlook ...and yet somehow only Conqs are supposed to be so "unjustly persecuted" from it.

Complainers openly mentioned it from their own mouths that the move isn't easy to pull off, holds risks, and therefore not used too often in a 1v1 situation, which actually implies the "impact" from this flawed design isn't much at all since Conqs themselves rarely rely on it in 1v1s ... and yet it's somehow still supposed to be a such a big negative impact for the Conq? :confused:



See what I mean by "fanboi"-ing? :rolleyes:

http://blog.eternalvigilance.me/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Talking-to-Brick-Wall.jpg

Charmzzz
09-20-2017, 09:04 AM
Worst thing is none of those nerfs dealt with what actually drove her toxic reputation and hack streamers continue to keep that going winning matches with nothing but lights and forward dodge they didn't even learn how to get deep gouge after.

You know I agree with you on that topic. If they nerfed the light attack speed of PK the character would be massively crippled into a counter-attacker-only playstyle. There would be no way to attack for PK vs a decent opponent. This cannot be compared to a Conq who has at least an unblockable melee move.

Yes, I know that Conq is in a bad spot 1v1-wise. I just cannot take all the PK-bashing anymore, especially when it is "proven" with such bs arguments like here. Nerf her to oblivion, I will just go Shugoki and cheese the hell out of all those PK complainers...

DukeInstinct is ignored now. Won't go on this level of personal insulting.

ArchDukeInstinct
09-20-2017, 10:55 AM
Same thing happens to every class in the game put in the same situation due to a universal problem from a design flaw/overlook ...and yet somehow only Conqs are supposed to be so "unjustly persecuted" from it.

Complainers openly mentioned it from their own mouths that the move isn't easy to pull off,

Uhh what? I guess you're referencing me with "complainers" or at least partially but who knows. Shield crush isn't hard to pull off, I don't know where you got such an idea, you just run at your opponent while unlocked and press the guard break button if you weren't aware. Even the most subpar of players, and you've proven to be very subpar indeed, could pull it off without any difficulty.

Anyway you seem to be under the misguided impression that the objective fact that shield crush being useless in 1v1 must be some sort of deal breaker to playing conqueror. Nobody here even attempted to say it should be buffed or changed, they've merely described the situation surrounding it to help others less experienced.

"Unjustly persecuted". How can one be persecuted by a non sentient game mechanic??? I think you don't understand what persecuted means which is really sad yet unsurprising.


Complainers openly mentioned it from their own mouths that the move isn't easy to pull off, holds risks, and therefore not used too often in a 1v1 situation, which actually implies [b]the "impact" from this flawed design isn't much at all since Conqs themselves rarely rely on it in 1v1s ... and yet it's somehow still supposed to be a such a big negative impact for the Conq? :confused:

Yes kwessa, and that's the whole point that you've failed to grasp this entire time, it's been a real roller coaster for you, except this particular ride only seems to go downhill and never up. In the big picture, conqueror could care less about shield crush sucking, they can get along without it just fine which is why nobody is trying to get the move buffed.
The move is rarely used by conquerors in 1v1 and shouldn't be used in 1v1 and that's what I've been telling OP from the start and other people who may be starting conqueror. You taking offense to that is your own personal problem and you should go deal with it somewhere else.

Devils-_-legacy
09-20-2017, 04:14 PM
I'm the one that suggested he needed a buff of some kind and I stand by that his kit is pretty useless

UbiNoty
09-20-2017, 11:40 PM
Balancing will always be controversial, and it gets just slightly worse when it gets personal and it affects your main. In any situation, it can be difficult to agree completely on balance changes we may make, and I understand it's frustrating to have a difference of opinion (with us or with others) - especially when you may feel we did too much, or not enough, or even if we didn't address big issue. But let's keep the frustration directed at us instead of other commuity members. So please be civil and respectful of one another's thoughts and opinions.

Jarl.Felix
09-27-2017, 08:03 PM
This is so stupid Ubifail. YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS !

It's incredible how playing GOOD it's now punishable with free GB which may result even to the loss of duel/fight . How is this even normal ?

Take this VERY SIMPLE EXAMPLE : You do a shield bash + a side heavy to your enemy. He simply press GB before getting up and voila ! Free GB followed by either a ledge kill or even more dmg for him instead of me.

So basicaly if i play right i get more punished because of it !

How is this even ok for you ?

MetalDevil19
09-27-2017, 08:18 PM
PK must be a tranny/dragqueen according to OP...that explains a lot actually. lol