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View Full Version : Light parry: No longer a confirmed heavy?



ChampionRuby50g
09-17-2017, 07:06 AM
So it's been a while since I've played FH, and decided to go back today and play a few games. Came across a Conq Bot, level 2 or 3, and when I parried the light attacks the Conq threw at me he managed to go into a shield bash before my side heavy could connect as Warden, and another time he dodged out of my top heavy after a light parry.

I haven't read any of the recent patch notes but plan to do shortly. Is this a bug, or is this now possible due to a recent update?

Tyrjo
09-17-2017, 07:54 AM
Nothing has changed. You need to GB to get that heavy in after a parry though. :)

S0Mi_xD
09-17-2017, 02:00 PM
A heavy on a light parry should be guaranteed on light parry with every hero as far as I know, as long as they not changed anything

ChampionRuby50g
09-17-2017, 03:32 PM
Nothing has changed. You need to GB to get that heavy in after a parry though. :)

Light parry should confirm a free heavy, without guardbreaking. After I parry a light attack I expect it to land, not for the other hero to dodge or hit me with a shield bash before my attack even lands.
You need to GB to get a heavy in after a heavy parry. Light parry confirms a heavy from any direction when playing as Warden, as I was.

AviiD.
09-17-2017, 03:59 PM
Conq's have a faster recovery time so you have to gb them after landing a light parry. Every other hero can be punished with a heavy attack after a light parry

S0Mi_xD
09-17-2017, 07:02 PM
Conq's have a faster recovery time so you have to gb them after landing a light parry. Every other hero can be punished with a heavy attack after a light parry

Oh right xD, my fault - looked over it fast :D
thats right conqu has a fast recovery, if he gets parried ^^

Netcode_err_404
09-17-2017, 07:42 PM
Light parry should not garantee a good nothing.

Not with current balance.

There are literally 0 reasons why shugoki's lights should be punished as hard as pk/gladiator, or any other fast class.


In my opinion lights should get rewarded depending on the class. Parrying a lb side light is not like parrying a pk zone, but both get rewarded the same way.



LAso, zones are meant for aoe situations, but ppl keep to abuse them in 1v1. There are 0 reasons why warden zone is punishable on block but orochi, pk not. All ultra fast zone should get a free GB if blocked.

Gladiator zone is lame and need a nerf.


Thats all.


Your idea about punish every light the same way honestlly is ****ing terrible.

S0Mi_xD
09-17-2017, 07:59 PM
Light parry should not garantee a good nothing.

Not with current balance.

There are literally 0 reasons why shugoki's lights should be punished as hard as pk/gladiator, or any other fast class.


In my opinion lights should get rewarded depending on the class. Parrying a lb side light is not like parrying a pk zone, but both get rewarded the same way.



LAso, zones are meant for aoe situations, but ppl keep to abuse them in 1v1. There are 0 reasons why warden zone is punishable on block but orochi, pk not. All ultra fast zone should get a free GB if blocked.

Gladiator zone is lame and need a nerf.


Thats all.


Your idea about punish every light the same way honestlly is ****ing terrible.

There are to ways to put parry into a good place.

1. No hero get anything from it
2. Or every hero gets a specific parry follow up (like cent, shinobi, warlord, LB, Glad)

I defended 1. very long but I see that there still should be something, but not a huge thing. Something like the poke from warlord (the light with 10 dmg, to prevent advantage from heroes like Orochi on it)

So 2. should be the case - a hero specific parry follow up, but that would take some time to develop, except they recycle some movements (like valks headbutt, berserkers chest hit etc.)

But therefor parry should cost a good amount of stamina, to keep the abuse bit in limits.

Netcode_err_404
09-17-2017, 10:42 PM
There are to ways to put parry into a good place.

1. No hero get anything from it
2. Or every hero gets a specific parry follow up (like cent, shinobi, warlord, LB, Glad)

I defended 1. very long but I see that there still should be something, but not a huge thing. Something like the poke from warlord (the light with 10 dmg, to prevent advantage from heroes like Orochi on it)

So 2. should be the case - a hero specific parry follow up, but that would take some time to develop, except they recycle some movements (like valks headbutt, berserkers chest hit etc.)

But therefor parry should cost a good amount of stamina, to keep the abuse bit in limits.



With the current balance thats not gonna happen, we pc users already tested the version with parry nerf, and its utter garbage, especially because all used pk's and orochis, to just spam lights without worries.

Is not like in the current version pk and orochis do anything else except spamming lights and zones, but at least if you are lucky enough to parry them, they get seriously damaged.

ChampionRuby50g
09-18-2017, 01:44 AM
Conq's have a faster recovery time so you have to gb them after landing a light parry. Every other hero can be punished with a heavy attack after a light parry

The more you know 😊 Cheers for clearing that up for me!

UbiJurassic
09-18-2017, 02:54 AM
To my knowledge, there hasn't been any changes on parries. It has definitely been discussed by the team, but nothing final has been implemented into the main game.

S0Mi_xD
09-18-2017, 04:15 AM
With the current balance thats not gonna happen, we pc users already tested the version with parry nerf, and its utter garbage, especially because all used pk's and orochis, to just spam lights without worries.

Is not like in the current version pk and orochis do anything else except spamming lights and zones, but at least if you are lucky enough to parry them, they get seriously damaged.

Sorry, but I saw pretty good feedback on it from players where I can rely on their words (not only you tubers/streamers etc. also friends who know what they are talking about.
And with the time, your words lost their value in my eyes ^^.
The changes to PT where great, and helped the game very well.

Lights are blocked easy, and parry isn't that hard as well.
But like I said, a solid parry punish for everyone where is not much guaranteed would be fine, similar to warlord.

And that's the problem I have with you and your opinion, you are thinking straight forward and only one step ahead.
I do think around corners and more steps and different ways ahead.

A huge Light punish will still kill some heroes based on their kit if it stays like now.

If valks and glads dodge attacks are worth a GB on block why not moves like Double top light, worth a GB on block or at least a light attack to counter them, it's a attack with the dmg of a heavy attack. But this is stupid to give GBs on blocking light attacks.
Orochis top light need a slight dmg nerf in general.
But therefor he needs buffs in other parts of his kit.
His problem is similar to Cents, his strength isn't spread well.

But the biggest mistake in your way of thinking and defending parry is, you think parry is nothing worth without dmg.
It's still a huge Stamina dmg, and if they manage to make OOS a dangerous state it will be fine.
Also you always sound like you play the way you are talking In here, straight forward (that means predictable) and only one step ahead.

Want to know, what I do when I fight a orochi top light and zoner?
I pretend to fight abit, try different things, look how he reacts, also pay attention to his "rhythm".
Is he a Top Light - Top Light - Zone, or a Zone - Toplight - Toplight etc I think you gets this part.
Block - Block - Parry -> he is OOS, Block - Block - Deflect (in my case with Zerker) and get my 96 dmg punish.

I am looking forward to the moment, where the luxury of Parry fades away and those who relied on it need to face the reality and play the game, like it was meant to be.

And something about light spam in general, you know the beloved way to play of noobs in fighters?
Low kick low kick low kick low kick low kick. Nothing different, everybody complains, does it himself, and you are not forced to play this way.
As soon mechanics change, and people change their mind and see that there are better ways to play and win, they will do.

I have no problem with light spammers, to easy to predict. And I , now in the current state of the game, don't need to parry them to beat them ;) and I am not the only one.

Netcode_err_404
09-18-2017, 04:43 AM
Sorry, but I saw pretty good feedback on it from players where I can rely on their words (not only you tubers/streamers etc. also friends who know what they are talking about.
And with the time, your words lost their value in my eyes ^^.
The changes to PT where great, and helped the game very well.

Lights are blocked easy, and parry isn't that hard as well.
But like I said, a solid parry punish for everyone where is not much guaranteed would be fine, similar to warlord.

And that's the problem I have with you and your opinion, you are thinking straight forward and only one step ahead.
I do think around corners and more steps and different ways ahead.

A huge Light punish will still kill some heroes based on their kit if it stays like now.

If valks and glads dodge attacks are worth a GB on block why not moves like Double top light, worth a GB on block or at least a light attack to counter them, it's a attack with the dmg of a heavy attack. But this is stupid to give GBs on blocking light attacks.
Orochis top light need a slight dmg nerf in general.
But therefor he needs buffs in other parts of his kit.
His problem is similar to Cents, his strength isn't spread well.

But the biggest mistake in your way of thinking and defending parry is, you think parry is nothing worth without dmg.
It's still a huge Stamina dmg, and if they manage to make OOS a dangerous state it will be fine.
Also you always sound like you play the way you are talking In here, straight forward (that means predictable) and only one step ahead.

Want to know, what I do when I fight a orochi top light and zoner?
I pretend to fight abit, try different things, look how he reacts, also pay attention to his "rhythm".
Is he a Top Light - Top Light - Zone, or a Zone - Toplight - Toplight etc I think you gets this part.
Block - Block - Parry -> he is OOS, Block - Block - Deflect (in my case with Zerker) and get my 96 dmg punish.

I am looking forward to the moment, where the luxury of Parry fades away and those who relied on it need to face the reality and play the game, like it was meant to be.

And something about light spam in general, you know the beloved way to play of noobs in fighters?
Low kick low kick low kick low kick low kick. Nothing different, everybody complains, does it himself, and you are not forced to play this way.
As soon mechanics change, and people change their mind and see that there are better ways to play and win, they will do.

I have no problem with light spammers, to easy to predict. And I , now in the current state of the game, don't need to parry them to beat them ;) and I am not the only one.



Good feedback where ? The changes were so bad they even decided to not implement them to make more changes and testing.

They want to make OOS a matter of life and death, instead all oos was in ptr was just the same useless state where only few classes can capitalize on it spamming UB bashes to create a 50/50 situation where you are forced to dodge or parry.

You have no problems with light spam, but you have problems with parries ? How is that even senseful ? Parry requires attention and good reflexes, light spam requires you pressing one button.

Parry should garantee something that is not only useless stamina damage nobody will care about it.

Not to mention that the ptr version destroyed completely 4v4. Like seriously, was completely unplayable.



These changes where not even close to be good for the game, infact thanks god they posticipated them.

The only good change ( not a coincidence its present in ALL fight games ever) was the chip dmg, which is still irrelevant and completely useless.

Most ppl whine about Gba fter parry, but i think its mandatory in many situation especially in 4v4, if ppl already whine that much about it, you can make GB a projection only with no free heavy after it.

But it needs to stay. Period.


Im not saying you must not trust your "friends" but, if you haven't played it, you cannot speak about it.

S0Mi_xD
09-18-2017, 05:23 AM
Good feedback where ? The changes were so bad they even decided to not implement them to make more changes and testing.

They want to make OOS a matter of life and death, instead all oos was in ptr was just the same useless state where only few classes can capitalize on it spamming UB bashes to create a 50/50 situation where you are forced to dodge or parry.

You have no problems with light spam, but you have problems with parries ? How is that even senseful ? Parry requires attention and good reflexes, light spam requires you pressing one button.

Parry should garantee something that is not only useless stamina damage nobody will care about it.

Not to mention that the ptr version destroyed completely 4v4. Like seriously, was completely unplayable.



These changes where not even close to be good for the game, infact thanks god they posticipated them.

The only good change ( not a coincidence its present in ALL fight games ever) was the chip dmg, which is still irrelevant and completely useless.

Most ppl whine about Gba fter parry, but i think its mandatory in many situation especially in 4v4, if ppl already whine that much about it, you can make GB a projection only with no free heavy after it.

But it needs to stay. Period.


Im not saying you must not trust your "friends" but, if you haven't played it, you cannot speak about it.

Yeah, there is GOOD FEEDBACK = Criticism that is positive and negative.
NOBODY says it was perfect ;)

That is your problem, that I mentioned in my last comment - you are thinking much to straight.
You are a one way road.

And yes, that was the right decision to not implant all those changes - but not because those changes where useless like you say.
Because there where still some bigger problems.

- OOS was more dangerous, but they still not found the right way to make it usefull for every hero (that's not a OOS exclusive problem, also a char problem)
- no parry in OOS wasn't great in combination that chip doesn't kill
- chip is good, chip not killing -> still turtle
- GB's would be very rare
and some other things

NO GB doesn't need to stay.
If it is just a throw auto throw like centurion, there will still be unbalance between heroes, most of them get nothing out of it, others turn into a train.

Just in case you didn't saw it or just ignored it because I wrote it, and I wouldn't mind your feedback on it (as long as you at least try to understand other ways of thinking)
I made a suggestion not so long ago, and it would fit really good and solve some problems, that where present in the PT.
It's not perfect but would be a good way to go.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1745375-Do-we-need-a-real-Guard-Break

matt89connor
09-18-2017, 07:10 AM
what mr Error004 etc.. is true:there are different speed in the light attacks and should be punish different: i was ok with PTS idea, but the stamina removed should be difference based on the speed of the enemy attack, as Somi say, spam lights of orochi and PK is real in all type of metas, but now a parry on him at least garantee a good punish for his spam: in the next meta patch( I hope soon for PC at least), the stamina removed for parry a very fast light should be increase instead to be the same of parry a HL light(for example).

Netcode_err_404
09-18-2017, 04:21 PM
Yeah, there is GOOD FEEDBACK = Criticism that is positive and negative.
NOBODY says it was perfect ;)

That is your problem, that I mentioned in my last comment - you are thinking much to straight.
You are a one way road.

And yes, that was the right decision to not implant all those changes - but not because those changes where useless like you say.
Because there where still some bigger problems.

- OOS was more dangerous, but they still not found the right way to make it usefull for every hero (that's not a OOS exclusive problem, also a char problem)
- no parry in OOS wasn't great in combination that chip doesn't kill
- chip is good, chip not killing -> still turtle
- GB's would be very rare
and some other things

NO GB doesn't need to stay.
If it is just a throw auto throw like centurion, there will still be unbalance between heroes, most of them get nothing out of it, others turn into a train.

Just in case you didn't saw it or just ignored it because I wrote it, and I wouldn't mind your feedback on it (as long as you at least try to understand other ways of thinking)
I made a suggestion not so long ago, and it would fit really good and solve some problems, that where present in the PT.
It's not perfect but would be a good way to go.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1745375-Do-we-need-a-real-Guard-Break



Its not a good feedback, they just slightly incresed something that is already present in the game. But even after the increase, still remains irrelevant in duels, and the worst stat ever invented in 4v4,

Parry is not a problem, the problem starts to be a problem when you can turtle up and negate almost 100% of the damage of almost every attack in the game by just blocking, until you get that parry,

4v4 needs these gb after parry. and needs all the punishment you can get after a light parry.

I would put meta changes in 1v1 only. Most of the playerbase won't even care.