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View Full Version : Do you like the 109z?



rgoodrich1978
03-11-2004, 08:12 AM

rgoodrich1978
03-11-2004, 08:12 AM

AWL_Spinner
03-11-2004, 08:17 AM
Don't really care. S'funny when the people who bleat about the 109Z are the same folks who are happy to blat about the skies over Berlin in a P80 or a Gotha.

It's all fantasy, whether that fantasy is any more or less of a historical possibility doesn't make it any less of a fantasy.

Can see no harm in it whatsoever. If you don't like it, don't fly it, and if you don't like it online, don't fly in open servers. Or run your own.

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Cheers, Spinner

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rgoodrich1978
03-11-2004, 08:20 AM
Sure sure, this is just a census.

-PURGE-
its good for you

LEXX_Luthor
03-11-2004, 08:21 AM
Interesting to sim one of Willy Messer's ideas.

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Zen--
03-11-2004, 08:29 AM
The plane is interesting, but I don't think it has much place on a server since IIRC it never made it past the drawing board.

I voted I hate it (even though I don't) because I still don't fly it when other people do.

-Zen-

SeaFireLIV
03-11-2004, 08:41 AM
Well, rgoodrich knows how I feel about it. I did not intend to hijack the ORR thread, I apologise for that.


But i`m not against planes that really looked like they had a chance in 1945/ early `46. I have no complaints about the GO229, or the US version of the jet, etc... I just feel the basic `reality` to the history ought to be adhered to.

BlitzPig_DDT
03-11-2004, 08:58 AM
I like it. I want all these planes added. From between war planes (20s and 30s) to mid war design studies and concepts, to postwar/pre-Korea designs. They are almost always left out of sims and all but forgotten.

If it was a complete design, it should be added. That means - more than just a 3-view, but, doesn't have to be as far along as a prototype (no less than pre-prototype designs in other words).

Wouldn't it be kick-*** to perform "carrier ops" with a bi-plane, hooking up to zeppelins? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BTW - please don't associate being a total aero-geek with being a liberal. There's no need to insult us aero-geeks like that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

==================================
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Come and spam on our front porch.

http://www.blitzpigs.com

flyingskid2
03-11-2004, 09:00 AM
I like all planes. I like twin-hulled planes especially, to shoot at. I think I will start learning to fly ta152 or fw190 just so I can blast p-38s; there's so many of them flying around.

LEXX_Luthor
03-11-2004, 09:00 AM
DDT:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wouldn't it be kick-*** to perform "carrier ops" with a bi-plane, hooking up to zeppelins?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hot Dog I never thought about that, the Zeppelin thing.

__________________
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Fehler
03-11-2004, 09:25 AM
You know, if the plane sucked, you wouldnt hear as many complaints.

It wont make for any historical missions and such, but possibly some nifty "What if" scenarios would be fun to play...

Say.. The Ardennes offensive was successful for the Germans. You could possibly be looking at another year or so of warfare in Europe. With Hitler's wonder weapons you have some challenging missions drawn up for the USAAF and RAF in that region.

Let's face it, we all know who won the war, right? So why not place a challenge on the Allied side for a nice "What if" set of scenarios? They would be entertaining to say the least!

As for the cry babies that pathetically say, "I am disappointed that...." You are obviously not giving credit to the modeler that made the plane, nor to Oleg for coming up with a "Good guess" FM/DM for it. That's quite disrespectful to both parties concerned, and disrespectful people suck!

As for the 109Z, one of the first planes I flew when I got my copy of AEP was the 109Z. (Never understood why they didnt call it the 218 = 109 x 2) It was fun, but I probably wont fly it again unless it is in a "What if" coop. But believe me, it was enjoyable to fly and blast the heck out of bombers. And one second of fun is worth more than two years of reading the pathetic cries of sniveling little sissies that never produced a game, made a model, or had a nice thing to say about anyone on this forum.

Thanks for the nice poll rgoodrich1978. Your thanks in ORR is a refreshing read.

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BuzzU
03-11-2004, 09:48 AM
It's a good plane for offline only.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
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The_Red_Spoon
03-11-2004, 09:57 AM
I like it. It has 5 cannons. Heh.

However, I agree with those who think it is a fun/novelty/online plane (but shooting them down must be satisfying)

BlitzPig_DDT
03-11-2004, 10:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
DDT:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wouldn't it be kick-*** to perform "carrier ops" with a bi-plane, hooking up to zeppelins?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hot Dog I never thought about that, the Zeppelin thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

The US had 2 zeppelin carriers IIRC, and each had it's own compliment of bi-plane fighters. Would've been about late 20's I think. Been a long time now so my memory's a bit shaky.

But yeah, missions dropping out then hooking back up afterward would absolutely rock. Like CS with real FMs. lol (that's actually where the CS designers got that idea)

And going after tough, well armed zeps + escort would be a blast too.

So many cool possibilties if we could only get all these neat planes and ideas into a sim.

==================================
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Come and spam on our front porch.

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p1ngu666
03-11-2004, 10:10 AM
luther u want a twin engined biplane, dont ya http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
or a big gotha http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Teufel_Eldritch
03-11-2004, 10:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Do you like the 109z?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea I like it. To me it's a plane for having fun f'ing around with. That is to say....I wouldnt fly it if I was wishing to be historically accurate. But it is a cool plane! FUN!! Eats bombers like candy!

YANKEE ROSE
-----------
"For a world of happiness & equality is but a fantasy driven by men who envy the ruling class."

The_Red_Spoon
03-11-2004, 10:26 AM
Heh - a twin boom biplane would be amazing; all that extra power and lift...

rgoodrich1978
03-11-2004, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
Don't really care. S'funny when the people who bleat about the 109Z are the same folks who are happy to blat about the skies over Berlin in a P80 or a Gotha.

It's all fantasy, whether that fantasy is any more or less of a historical possibility doesn't make it any less of a fantasy.

Can see no harm in it whatsoever. If you don't like it, don't fly it, and if you don't like it online, don't fly in open servers. Or run your own.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Cheers, Spinner

http://www.alliedwingedlegion.com/members/signatures/spinner_sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Game = fantasy is what your saying right?
I'm totally in harmony with that.

-PURGE-
its good for you

UberDemon
03-11-2004, 11:54 AM
As long as the power to control what planes are available online is up to the server or the host, than it really does not matter.

Pick the server with the settings that suit you. If you want historical action, pick that server. If you want Luft '46 stuff, all the power to you. Pick that server.

I've developed a very simple boolean inspired chart that can be used by anyone, and should simplify the matter:

History Player + Historical Server = Good
History Player + Fictional Server = Bad
Fictional Player + Historical Server = Bad
Fictional Player + Fictional Server = Good
Player Who Appreciates Both + Historical Server = Good
Player Who Appreciates Both + Fictional Server = Good
Historical Player Who Knowingly Joins Fictional Server + Fictional Server = Double Bad
Fictional Player Who knowingly tries to spoil Historical action + Historical Server = Double Bad
Cheater + Any Server = Triple Bad

To read the chart, if the result is Good, then you should join that server. If the result is bad than you should not join the server.

If the server you join misadvertised their settings, then leave.

The player has the power of choice. And with choice so resides the power of happiness.

This debate is the exact reason why I created "Rule Sets" in my UQMG software for IL-2 FB. Check it out at http://www.uberdemon.com

Best Regards
Demon/UberDemon

BlitzPig_Ritter
03-11-2004, 11:58 AM
I consider myself one of those who desires historical accuracy over anything else in the game. That said, I love the 109Z as well as the Go-229. It opens the possability of some "what-if" senarios. Its also a very fun plane to fly.

______________________________
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rgoodrich1978
03-11-2004, 12:18 PM
The dynamic that is developing from this poll is kinda interesting. Perhaps putting this machine into the game was less "giving into the kids" than it was just a good business decision.

-PURGE-
its good for you

SeaFireLIV
03-11-2004, 12:30 PM
So I see. Then keeping it as a simulation with perhaps some `what if` elements isn`t enough. Because the majority want a `Quake ` game with big, badder, more destruction weapons that didn`t actually exist except in some scientist`s wet dream 60 years ago? That is ok then?

So soon we will have a potential `BattleField 1942` situation. You can fly in jet packs in that because someone in real life thought about it in WWII. I didn`t mind the messing in Battlefield, but FB was not supposed to be that.

If it continues we will have ridiculous inventions that had no chance in reality just to suit the kids who want the `BIG BANG` fun! Where`s the respect to those who fought in WWII? I bought IL2 because it was immersive and realistic to me, not because I could fly a fantasy plane that had the BIGGEST GUN!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/storm.jpg
Soon... Very soon....

The_Red_Spoon
03-11-2004, 12:50 PM
Well, Il2 can be anything you want it to be - sometimes I just faff about with the fun stuff, but at other times I will fly something very fragile on full difficulty and try and down bombers without getting shot to bits.

For me, the best thing about IL2 is that it caters for all tastes; if Oleg & Co. have any sense, they won't let the interests of one group of players take precedence over the interests of another.

VVS-Manuc
03-11-2004, 12:51 PM
Bf 109 Z is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1241.gif

UberDemon
03-11-2004, 12:59 PM
Here is an alternative logical chart:

If [server i am thinking about joining] contains [aircraft i want to be present in server] Then
I should join server
Else
I should not join the server

This chart should be repeated as many times as necessary.

Heck, without humor, is life worth living?

Seriously. IL-2 FB has probably the greatest range of features to satisfy from the most demanding accuracy person to the most daring dreamer. That is why it is so darn appealing. Regardless of how you think IL-2 FB should be, the fact of the matter is that IL-2 FB is MOSTLY, what we want it to be... which makes it the one element that joins this higly disgruntled... but, dare I say it, happy family in the virtual pilot community.

We all desire the same thing, which is the satisfaction of having our WW2 flight simulation needs fullfilled. Those needs are very different... but when you think about it, when was the last time you agreed with your brother or sister?

We all are getting what we want.

Can I get an Amen?
Can I get a Halleluhah?
(Do you know where I am attempting to quote this from?)

Let us embrace IL-2 FB....

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rgoodrich1978
03-11-2004, 01:00 PM
I honestly feel very sorry for you Seafire. But gaming is an industry and industry is about money and more people playing means more money and mainstream gamers are less concerned with historical accuracy than they are with just having a good time. More money means continued development and brand support for consumer. Flight sims are a dying genre and you can't blame a company for adding a few very cool additions to a game that can potentially attract a whole new wave of customers. You want respect go watch the history channel. This is a GAME. This poll is showing that the purists are the minority and theres a few people who like the addition but respect the "old-timers" enough to not fly them but most of us think the more game there is the better it is. Depth is a quality that should be admired and a few fully possible but not historically accurate machines added to the GAME isn't blatently disrespectful, its paying the bills. Look at Uberdemons post. He's got it right on. I'm down with historic servers, thats cool. But I'm also down with variety and mixing it up a little for when 'Historic' gets 'boring'. QM yourself into a 109z and set yourself 16 p51 opponents and see if you can shoot them all down. If you can, up the ai, then add some AA and a ground target. Set some impossible odds against yourself and take the Uberplane out and see what you can do with it. It's fun. I hope you learn to like it, for your own sake. Doesn't look like it'll be going away.

-PURGE-
its good for you

SeaFireLIV
03-11-2004, 01:03 PM
It`s not me you should feel sorry for...

SeaFireLIV...

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Soon... Very soon....

rgoodrich1978
03-11-2004, 01:17 PM
Hope you didn't take that as an offensive statement. I really do feel bad that your game is being pirated into a direction you cant stand. Same thing happened to me with Planetside.

-PURGE-
its good for you

BlitzPig_DDT
03-11-2004, 02:00 PM
SeaFire, I'm trying to understand your position, but, I can't quite seem to.

You have control of the game, offline, and as a host. You can set up scenarios as you'd like them to be. Where's the problem if an exotic is included?

I really don't see where you get the whole "wheres the respect for those who fought in WWII" bit.

Only thing I can think of is that maybe you think that the inclusion of rare, oddball designs, somehow requires that they have totally fictional FMs. *If* that's the case, then you question Oleg's competency, and that of aero-engineering in general. And must also beleive that modern design techniques are dangerous at best.

==================================
The Blitz Pigs - Not a squad, a Movement!

Come and spam on our front porch.

http://www.blitzpigs.com

Sturmtrooper
03-11-2004, 02:21 PM
I like it .
It is a pleasant surprise in a fantastic add-on.
The 109Z kinda reminds me of a science fiction movie or weird scientific experiment gone haywire !
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

http://home.bellsouth.net/coDataImages/p/Groups/183/183586/pages/456377/untitled1.gif

UberDemon
03-11-2004, 03:08 PM
Aaahh darn... I got caught up on my own thoughts again.

Yes, I do like the 109Z. Always thought it would be a cool addition for "what if" scenario. ("Always" = since I saw a 3-view diagram of it in Green's "Warplanes of the Third Reich").

The Americans did something similar with the twin-Mustang. I saw one in real life not too long ago, the F-82. Neat plane, but it had twin cockpits, as opposed to the Bf-109Z, which looked more like the Star Wars TIE Bomber in concept.

Anyway, the more the merrier. I personally would like to have the Fi-156 and Fw-189 flyable. The Fw-189 in its interim Night-Fighter version with oblique cannons would be interesting.

Aahhh... the beer tastes good!

CRSutton
03-11-2004, 03:52 PM
I don't care. There are plenty of cool planes for everybody to play with. Game just get better.

rgoodrich1978
03-11-2004, 03:55 PM
You know what WOULD be over the top? If you could disengage the two halvs and wings popped out of the midsection like switchblades.

Disengage saucer section! laugh

Dont be too hard on Seafire. Hes one of the more reasonable purists and I do have a healthy amount of respect for his composure in this topic.

For example...
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=112100172

-PURGE-
its good for you

UberDemon
03-11-2004, 04:01 PM
Man,

I am glad I have no friends, because then I would not be able to do this...

I can't wait to get the new Ace Expansion Pack. I would think that shooting the 109Z down would be something like the He-111Z... go for the middle section... except it is much faster, and a head on pass would be suicide.

Best Regards,
Demon/UberDemon - get UQMG for IL-2 FB at
www.uberdemon.com (http://www.uberdemon.com)

rgoodrich1978
03-12-2004, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by UberDemon:
Man,

I am glad I have no friends, because then I would not be able to do this...

I can't wait to get the new Ace Expansion Pack. I would think that shooting the 109Z down would be something like the He-111Z... go for the middle section... except it is much faster, and a head on pass would be suicide.

Best Regards,
Demon/UberDemon - get UQMG for IL-2 FB at
http://www.uberdemon.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wait till you try the guns. Ad the gun pod and squeeze both triggers when your pointed at the ground. Looks like you're shooting with nuclear ammo or something. Totally crazy. :-D

-PURGE-
its good for you

rgoodrich1978
03-12-2004, 12:05 PM
431 views and only 52 people voting? Is that everybody?

-PURGE-
its good for you

mortoma
03-12-2004, 12:17 PM
I like to shoot it down, all that extra area makes it almost impossible to miss. Plus it's doesn't turn very well which makes it easier to get a six on it. But it still probably turns better than it did in RL. Or would have turned if they actually flew it. Did they at least flight test it??

jung0l
03-12-2004, 12:54 PM
I can understand SeaFire's point of view. On one hand, Oleg and Co. have made an astonishing flight simulator that is closer to real life than any previous product. The degree of detail really makes you want to perceive this as serious a reproduction of WWII aerial you'll ever know.(Till BOB) So when u start seeing double Uber-God K4's blasting everything in sight, and flying wings and everything, that perception is killed.

It would be relatively easy to say that the designers are pandering toward the fantastic; selling out if u will. I felt that way for a second.

But on the other hand, I think it was a very bold move by Oleg to ensure the future expansion of the flight sim world. They know what kind of product they have, and I think they calculated that adding a few fantasy planes will suck fringe FS flyers in this world, and once they see the full potential of this product, they will eventually increase both their skill and the appreciation of realistic combsat situations. As a almost exclusive Arcade/Ubi pilot, I find myself becoming absorbed into cockpit/full real coops at an alarming rate. ( though I still can't shoot worth a damn past the "Uber-Blast" muzzle flashes.

I think(hope) that as the dust settles, the 109Z will exist in fun only sort of enviroments, rather than some of the scripted server I see them on. Don't get it twisted, in the hands of 109 aces with prop pitch and trim manipulation and K4 zoom tactics, this machine is MORE deadlier than an A9, IMHO. It's also fun as hell to fly. But I gotta tell ya, seeing one of these completely outclass P38's really puts a question mark in my head, seeing that there was no "proof" that 38's instantaneous turn rate was surprisingly tight, as stated by American, German, and Japeanese sources. But to each his own. And I like the Go229 and P80's


--Ps. Uber I was gonna ask when your updated QMG was coming, but I see u haven't gotten AEP yet. Dude, ur gonna love it.

And I wanna see Flyable FW-189 and Storch too!