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Archo-Vax
09-16-2017, 12:04 AM
Flaws:

- No viable openers.

- He moves so slowly that his walking and running animations tend to loop over themselves in a Michael-Jackson-Moon-Walking-esque fashion. Which looks ridiculous, compared to the (comparatively) lightning quick movements he displays when you enter Guard Mode.

- After a certain amount of "use" with him, his animations seem to progressively fall apart. His Kanabo always seems to glitch and slip out of his hands, hovering around his wrists. When performing his Burst Your Bubble or Pinch Hitter, the Kanabo, half the time, seems to completely miss or be off-center from where it should be hitting. I can only imagine that such is the same for the other executions.

Ideas:

- His Demon Ball move. How about, depending on the direction in which you're aiming after you guardbreak your opponent: it changes the effect you get when you press Heavy. Like, say... doing a Right Side-Heavy will do the same thing as usual, but will do it in the other direction. So that, then, Shugoki players can have some amount of "aiming" ability. And then, if a Shugoki Guard-Breaks and does a Top-Heavy, it's just a regular heavy attack. With added Hyper-Armor, should his Hyper-Armor have been broken through, already.

- How about that his Top-Charging-Heavy works a bit different than either of his Side-Charging-Heavies? As it stands, doing a Charging-Heavy in any direction leaves the Shugoki vulnerable to hits and Guard-Breaks. What if: the Side-Charging-Heavies lose this drawback (with the Shugoki remaining balanced despite performing it), in exchange for a bit less damage potential, while the Top-Charging-Heavy has a bit more damage potential, but leaves the Shugoki unbalanced.

- Something similar could be done for the Lights. What if: Side-Lights, even if they miss or get blocked, can still be followed up with a Headbutt. Said Headbutt would be dodge-able, but wouldn't leave the Shugoki particularly vulnerable. While a Top-Light would not have the ability to be followed up with a Headbutt (not without landing a hit), but would also do more damage than either Side-Light, in general.

The_B0G_
09-16-2017, 12:08 AM
As long as it opens him up for some punishes I'm happy with it. Any time I run into a Shugoki I groan, "Here comes turtling/light+headbut for 2 minutes".
Maybe if they did have more at their disposal they wouldn't be so boring to fight against.

Archo-Vax
09-16-2017, 12:35 AM
As long as it opens him up for some punishes I'm happy with it. Any time I run into a Shugoki I groan, "Here comes turtling/light+headbut for 2 minutes".
Maybe if they did have more at their disposal they wouldn't be so boring to fight against.

My thoughts, exactly.

matt89connor
09-16-2017, 07:12 AM
Flaws:

- No viable openers.

- He moves so slowly that his walking and running animations tend to loop over themselves in a Michael-Jackson-Moon-Walking-esque fashion. Which looks ridiculous, compared to the (comparatively) lightning quick movements he displays when you enter Guard Mode.

- After a certain amount of "use" with him, his animations seem to progressively fall apart. His Kanabo always seems to glitch and slip out of his hands, hovering around his wrists. When performing his Burst Your Bubble or Pinch Hitter, the Kanabo, half the time, seems to completely miss or be off-center from where it should be hitting. I can only imagine that such is the same for the other executions.

Ideas:

- His Demon Ball move. How about, depending on the direction in which you're aiming after you guardbreak your opponent: it changes the effect you get when you press Heavy. Like, say... doing a Right Side-Heavy will do the same thing as usual, but will do it in the other direction. So that, then, Shugoki players can have some amount of "aiming" ability. And then, if a Shugoki Guard-Breaks and does a Top-Heavy, it's just a regular heavy attack. With added Hyper-Armor, should his Hyper-Armor have been broken through, already.

- How about that his Top-Charging-Heavy works a bit different than either of his Side-Charging-Heavies? As it stands, doing a Charging-Heavy in any direction leaves the Shugoki vulnerable to hits and Guard-Breaks. What if: the Side-Charging-Heavies lose this drawback (with the Shugoki remaining balanced despite performing it), in exchange for a bit less damage potential, while the Top-Charging-Heavy has a bit more damage potential, but leaves the Shugoki unbalanced.

- Something similar could be done for the Lights. What if: Side-Lights, even if they miss or get blocked, can still be followed up with a Headbutt. Said Headbutt would be dodge-able, but wouldn't leave the Shugoki particularly vulnerable. While a Top-Light would not have the ability to be followed up with a Headbutt (not without landing a hit), but would also do more damage than either Side-Light, in general.

your idea can be useful...but for now i think is bettr wait the meta changes, in the PTS 2 shugoki was really strong because of no parry punish,but i like people like you who try to help that hero, i need some love

UbiNoty
09-16-2017, 11:53 PM
We know Shugoki has some weaknesses that in the current meta that definitely need to be addressed and we're working on them. I'll pass along your suggestions, and hopefully we can get some good news and updates for you all soon!

Archo-Vax
09-17-2017, 12:30 AM
We know Shugoki has some weaknesses that in the current meta that definitely need to be addressed and we're working on them. I'll pass along your suggestions, and hopefully we can get some good news and updates for you all soon!

Thank you.

gj4063
09-17-2017, 02:05 AM
I dealt enjoy shugoki, but some times all you got is light+head.

I don't play him much because I got tired of everyone running away after you rough them up a bit. No one has to fight you except for 1v1 duels. They'll go look for an easier fight and there's nothing I can do about it.

TSCDescon
09-17-2017, 04:14 AM
your idea can be useful...but for now i think is bettr wait the meta changes, in the PTS 2 shugoki was really strong because of no parry punish,but i like people like you who try to help that hero, i need some love

Same goes with Shugoki. His parry punish is usually wallsplat into demons embrace or golf swing, but wait you can't guard break after a parry. All you can do is light > headbutt. I find him weak in PTS2.

kweassa1
09-17-2017, 06:13 AM
Same goes with Shugoki. His parry punish is usually wallsplat into demons embrace or golf swing, but wait you can't guard break after a parry. All you can do is light > headbutt. I find him weak in PTS2.

His parry punish was just average in PTS2. It was just the Orochi, Warlord and Centurion that had too strong parry punishes due to certain specific skills.


For me, personally, the ABSOLUTE{/b] "must-buff" priority for the Shug is getting UI(hyperarmor)-Defense situation corrected.

Shug HP is listed as the game's no.1 @ 160HP... except in reality, it's actually only worth 120 HP. As everyone knows by now, Shug doesn't get "extra protection" from the UI. The Shug gets [b]damaged the same as everyone else only when the UI is on... and if for any reason the UI turns off, his bare, "default" state receives around 25% extra damage.... which means in practicality his 160HP is meaningless.

In literally EVERY fighting game I've played that features Super/Hyperarmor mechanics, this function is a balance tool for "slow but powerful behemoth[" archetypes ... its always an extra layer of defense upon default values. So under that same line of reasoning, Shug should be having 160HP, but effectively 200HP's worth when UI is on -- not the other way around (160HP's worth only with UI on, but only at 120 HP when UI is off).


IMO, devs should absolutely correct this first. This means the Shug will have a noticeably higher HP pool than others -- effectively 200HP when he plays slow, defensive and careful, This means his "tanking" is noticeably stronger than even the 2nd highest HP class Lawbringer.

Hence, AFTER these changes are done, THEN the devs should re-evaluate whether the Shug needs more attacks or "openers". Because 200/160 HP is really SOMETHING. IMO that should actually be quite more than enough to offset whatever problems he has. So he's the tankiest class in the game, even more tankier in 4v4 with Damage resistance feats -- and this should justify his lacking variety of attacks.


My 2cents.

SwellChemosabe
09-17-2017, 06:53 AM
His parry punish was just average in PTS2. It was just the Orochi, Warlord and Centurion that had too strong parry punishes due to certain specific skills.


For me, personally, the ABSOLUTE{/b] "must-buff" priority for the Shug is getting UI(hyperarmor)-Defense situation corrected.

Shug HP is listed as the game's no.1 @ 160HP... except in reality, it's actually only worth 120 HP. As everyone knows by now, Shug doesn't get "extra protection" from the UI. The Shug gets [b]damaged the same as everyone else only when the UI is on... and if for any reason the UI turns off, his bare, "default" state receives around 25% extra damage.... which means in practicality his 160HP is meaningless.

In literally EVERY fighting game I've played that features Super/Hyperarmor mechanics, this function is a balance tool for "slow but powerful behemoth[" archetypes ... its always an extra layer of defense upon default values. So under that same line of reasoning, Shug should be having 160HP, but effectively 200HP's worth when UI is on -- not the other way around (160HP's worth only with UI on, but only at 120 HP when UI is off).


IMO, devs should absolutely correct this first. This means the Shug will have a noticeably higher HP pool than others -- effectively 200HP when he plays slow, defensive and careful, This means his "tanking" is noticeably stronger than even the 2nd highest HP class Lawbringer.

Hence, AFTER these changes are done, THEN the devs should re-evaluate whether the Shug needs more attacks or "openers". Because 200/160 HP is really SOMETHING. IMO that should actually be quite more than enough to offset whatever problems he has. So he's the tankiest class in the game, even more tankier in 4v4 with Damage resistance feats -- and this should justify his lacking variety of attacks.


My 2cents.

^He does feel pretty easy to take down for a "Tank". I'd be ok with this as an initial fix before Ubi did anything else.

kweassa1
09-17-2017, 08:09 AM
^He does feel pretty easy to take down for a "Tank". I'd be ok with this as an initial fix before Ubi did anything else.

Not just "easy" -- he goes hilariously fast when he gets either: (a) ganked by multiple assailants, or (b) meets someone using a fast attacking class that's somewhat better than you in skill.

Most people evaluate the "tankiest" class in 4v4 as the Conq , thx to the (IMO bullshi*) Supblock and self-heal. Usually 2nd and 3rd place goes topsy-turvy between Warlord and Lawbringer... but nobody really considers Shugoki as a "tanky" class because once he has multiple assailants attacking him, he can't escape the situation (too slow), he doesn't really have any intensive-defense skill, and even if you focus sharply to CGB offtarget incoming GBs, that will still peel your UI. In this state the Shug hardly has any time to replenish UI, and is perpetually locked down at "120HP" state.... basically he becomes a 500lbs assassin class with none of the perks of being an assassin and only the drawbacks of low HP. :rolleyes:


In 1v1s he can have a measure of success when you play defensive+reactively, and carefully planning out your attacks to always regenerate UI when you need it, and always trading damage only when you have UI on... Shug players like these are very intimidating and can be extremely difficult to crack open... but if there's a bit of a skill difference and Shug starts allowing hits to land often enough for his UI to never stay on... like said, he goes down hilariously fast.


Basically the problem with Shug UI is sorta like this: Imagine that the devs penalized something about the Shinobi as a counter-balance to his mobility. Imagine that the Shinobi is still the fastest and most mobile class of them all, but when somebody lands any attack, his leg gets hurt and so his speed drops down to 75% of normal and he can't use double dodge anymore. The Shinobi would be penalized for his natural talent for mobility, so his default class spec will cancel out and just go away when someone hits him.

That's basically what the Shug is suffering right now.

Obviously UI can't stay on forever, so the UI shield going away on hit and taking time to replenish is totally understandable. But why the royal HECK does it DIMINISH his base class spec to 75% of default and receives more damage than any other class.... its just beyond me.