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XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 12:01 PM
Just finished reading a book called "Tumult in the clouds" written by James Goodson, one of the top scoring aces in the american airforce during wwII. On page 142-143 he wrote following...

-Then I saw two FW190s closing on him. By this time we were above the fortress, so we were able to pull in behind to come up behind the two germans. I selected one, but before I could close, he flipped into a tight break. I immediately followed- but maybe not quite fast or tight enough. It had been a long time since a german fighter stayed around for a dogfight and we believed the p-51 could outturn the FW190 anyway. That day I learned the hard way. I suddenly realised the 190 was gaining on me in the turn. And yet I was fighting around as tight as I could. The gravity was pulling my oxygen mask down from my nose. My breath was coming in gasps and gulps adn still that spinner of the sinister 190 creopt up. I thought he must have enough deflection to hit me and I pulled tighter and felt my plane juder and buck on the edge of a stall. He was firing now, and would soon be hitting. In my moment of need, I dropped my right hand to the flap. Miraculously the plane stopped its bucking and I pulled out of the line of fire. Immediately the 190 dived for the decl in the usual Luftwaffe evasive action and I was after him. But something strange happened. Normally a p-51 could at least stay with a 190 in a dive and maybe catch him.- at least when he pulled out. But here was my 190 pulling away from me as if i was standing still. Then it came to me: Idiot- the flaps were still on. As I took them off, the plane picked up speed. We were hurtling down in a vertical dive. But although it had only been a few seconds, my 190 was gone. Then I spotted him again in a shallower dive, but now three Mustangs were behind him. They were firing and maybe hitting, but they weren't closing. I had the advantage from my vertical dive and I was able to cut across and close slowly. I didnt get within range until we were almost on the deck. I checked my fuel gage and I knew I should have turned back 10 minues before. What was more, the 190 was streaking eastwards. I closed until I was about 300 to 200 yards- beyond my prefered range, especially when he was jerking and evading. I fired one burst and then another. Little puffs of smoke floated back from the 190. I gave another burst, but it was only for a second. I was out of ammunition! I broke away and headed hom with my three flight members.


Page 144. later I was intiged to read in Adolf Gallands book under the caption 'Von Mustangs Nach Hause gejagt' (Chased home by Mustangs) an account of an attack on a b-17 straggler by him self and Trautloft near Magdeburg. While Galland attacked the B-17, Trautloft reported a Mustang attack and stated that his guns were jammed forcing him to break off combat. Galland then describes the end of his combat as follows.
-I simply fled. Diving with open throttle, I tried to escape the pursuing Mustangs, which were firing wildly. Direction East towards Berlin. The tracer bullets came closer and closer. As my FW190 threatened to disintegrate and as I had only a small choise of those possibilities which the rules of the game allow in such harassing situations, I did something which had already saved my life twice during the battle of Britain. I fired simply everything I had into the blue in front of me. It had the desired effect of my pursuers, who suddenly saw the smoke which the shells had left behind coming towards them. They probably thought that they had met the first fighter to fire backwards or that a second attacking german fighter was behind them. My trick succeeded for they did a righthand climbing turn and disappeared...

Anyway I thought it was very intresting reading and it give some indiactions of performance of both planes. Unfortuantely it doesent say what type of p51 or 190...
Hope you enjoyed it! Its a great book!!

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 12:01 PM
Just finished reading a book called "Tumult in the clouds" written by James Goodson, one of the top scoring aces in the american airforce during wwII. On page 142-143 he wrote following...

-Then I saw two FW190s closing on him. By this time we were above the fortress, so we were able to pull in behind to come up behind the two germans. I selected one, but before I could close, he flipped into a tight break. I immediately followed- but maybe not quite fast or tight enough. It had been a long time since a german fighter stayed around for a dogfight and we believed the p-51 could outturn the FW190 anyway. That day I learned the hard way. I suddenly realised the 190 was gaining on me in the turn. And yet I was fighting around as tight as I could. The gravity was pulling my oxygen mask down from my nose. My breath was coming in gasps and gulps adn still that spinner of the sinister 190 creopt up. I thought he must have enough deflection to hit me and I pulled tighter and felt my plane juder and buck on the edge of a stall. He was firing now, and would soon be hitting. In my moment of need, I dropped my right hand to the flap. Miraculously the plane stopped its bucking and I pulled out of the line of fire. Immediately the 190 dived for the decl in the usual Luftwaffe evasive action and I was after him. But something strange happened. Normally a p-51 could at least stay with a 190 in a dive and maybe catch him.- at least when he pulled out. But here was my 190 pulling away from me as if i was standing still. Then it came to me: Idiot- the flaps were still on. As I took them off, the plane picked up speed. We were hurtling down in a vertical dive. But although it had only been a few seconds, my 190 was gone. Then I spotted him again in a shallower dive, but now three Mustangs were behind him. They were firing and maybe hitting, but they weren't closing. I had the advantage from my vertical dive and I was able to cut across and close slowly. I didnt get within range until we were almost on the deck. I checked my fuel gage and I knew I should have turned back 10 minues before. What was more, the 190 was streaking eastwards. I closed until I was about 300 to 200 yards- beyond my prefered range, especially when he was jerking and evading. I fired one burst and then another. Little puffs of smoke floated back from the 190. I gave another burst, but it was only for a second. I was out of ammunition! I broke away and headed hom with my three flight members.


Page 144. later I was intiged to read in Adolf Gallands book under the caption 'Von Mustangs Nach Hause gejagt' (Chased home by Mustangs) an account of an attack on a b-17 straggler by him self and Trautloft near Magdeburg. While Galland attacked the B-17, Trautloft reported a Mustang attack and stated that his guns were jammed forcing him to break off combat. Galland then describes the end of his combat as follows.
-I simply fled. Diving with open throttle, I tried to escape the pursuing Mustangs, which were firing wildly. Direction East towards Berlin. The tracer bullets came closer and closer. As my FW190 threatened to disintegrate and as I had only a small choise of those possibilities which the rules of the game allow in such harassing situations, I did something which had already saved my life twice during the battle of Britain. I fired simply everything I had into the blue in front of me. It had the desired effect of my pursuers, who suddenly saw the smoke which the shells had left behind coming towards them. They probably thought that they had met the first fighter to fire backwards or that a second attacking german fighter was behind them. My trick succeeded for they did a righthand climbing turn and disappeared...

Anyway I thought it was very intresting reading and it give some indiactions of performance of both planes. Unfortuantely it doesent say what type of p51 or 190...
Hope you enjoyed it! Its a great book!!

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 12:08 PM
Galland flew a Fw190A-6 from Berlin-Tempelhof /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 12:38 PM
Thanks for the info! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 12:45 PM
Good Reading, and it makes sence very much too, not just for Adolf Gallands is an ace!!

Any good pilot knows how and when to get into a 0G dive to extend or get away.

Think about that how much power takes man to escape the earth's gravity. vise-vesta use that force, you will find it means more than anything your xxxx hp rated piston engine can achieve.

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 12:53 PM
Thanks! Very good read!!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 01:26 PM
So should the p51 be bad turner if it turns even worse than a 190?!