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High-Horse
09-12-2017, 10:21 PM
To further push the game away from the low risk/high reward meta of turtling, my cousin and I had an interesting idea that's based on three changes:

First, give everyone the standard block, including assassins.

Second, give everyone reflex blocking, like assassins, but the two types of blocking work together to make defense a little more interesting. Rate of decay is same as Shinobi.

Lastly, no lights are stopped by blocking except for a couple conditions.

The first condition is superior block. The second is using your new reflex guard.
While the reflex guard holds, chip damage is reduced to 90% and interrupts light attacks (no chip from lights).
Once reflex guard decays, you are left with standard guard that blocks 75% of damage (25% chip), including lights, and lights are not interrupted when blocked.

What do you think?

Mia.Nora
09-13-2017, 12:06 AM
So practically once you change guard direction your block functions in two stages;

1. Superior Block that stops most of chip and interrupt light combos. But this one decays in less than 0.5 second then you are left with below guard
2. Block, but high chip damage and light combos are not interrupted.

I quite like it.

UbiJurassic
09-13-2017, 12:09 AM
An interesting idea, but reflex guard is a key part of the identity for the assassin class. The idea is to reinforce the the fact that these are characters that have cast aside defense for fast, agile offensive play that keep the rest of the roster on their toes. There are some players that may also even contest that giving assassins the same defensive options as everyone else will promote the defensive meta by making guarding easier for assassins.

Still, it's a very cool, unique idea and it sound interesting! What do others think?

S0Mi_xD
09-13-2017, 03:26 AM
To further push the game away from the low risk/high reward meta of turtling, my cousin and I had an interesting idea that's based on three changes:

First, give everyone the standard block, including assassins.

Second, give everyone reflex blocking, like assassins, but the two types of blocking work together to make defense a little more interesting. Rate of decay is same as Shinobi.

Lastly, no lights are stopped by blocking except for a couple conditions.

The first condition is superior block. The second is using your new reflex guard.
While the reflex guard holds, chip damage is reduced to 90% and interrupts light attacks (no chip from lights).
Once reflex guard decays, you are left with standard guard that blocks 75% of damage (25% chip), including lights, and lights are not interrupted when blocked.

What do you think?

Thats a great idea, thats my idea how Conqus superior block should work.
When switching superior will be activated for a short time after that its a normal block.

But mixing reflex and normal guard this way and give it every hero would be really cool.
The only thing is, it would take away abit of the dynamic play of assassins and reflex guards should animate assassins to use their "unique" ability deflect as a defense, also dodges in general.

And again what goes against this is, deflect doesn't feel really special, because currently...
A: it is way more risky than a parry
B: Parry rewards better
C: Classes like Valk, Conqu, Kensei also have defensive abilities on their dodge, which are far better than most deflects and safer to do, because the window of those is longer than any deflect

I don't want to say, that deflect shouldn't be a easy thing, it needs to stay harder to do, but therefor it needs to be rewarding. And I have the feeling, that some Deflects need a revamp/rework (like PK, Berserker)


An interesting idea, but reflex guard is a key part of the identity for the assassin class. The idea is to reinforce the the fact that these are characters that have cast aside defense for fast, agile offensive play that keep the rest of the roster on their toes. There are some players that may also even contest that giving assassins the same defensive options as everyone else will promote the defensive meta by making guarding easier for assassins.

Still, it's a very cool, unique idea and it sound interesting! What do others think?

Yeah, thats what I thought :D, but sometimes this feeling is not given, because dodging is VERY dangerous, because you can't CGB on dodge.
I always had the feeling, that GB needs something else, at first I thought maybe a rework of the mechanic, but it works pretty well the way it is now (even if it has some negative aspects)

brashtralas
09-13-2017, 04:24 AM
I like it, but why not just make all attacks continue their chain against block, and make parry the stopping factor, which is rewarded with an offensive counter that can be blocked by your opponent, but not parried?

High-Horse
09-13-2017, 05:18 PM
An interesting idea, but reflex guard is a key part of the identity for the assassin class. The idea is to reinforce the the fact that these are characters that have cast aside defense for fast, agile offensive play that keep the rest of the roster on their toes. There are some players that may also even contest that giving assassins the same defensive options as everyone else will promote the defensive meta by making guarding easier for assassins.

Still, it's a very cool, unique idea and it sound interesting! What do others think?

That's what I was worried about, it would be a pretty significant boost to assassin's defense, so we haven't quite worked out a trade off, maybe assassin's reflex block is set to Glad's decay time while everyone else has Berserker decay, maybe also more chip damage (85% blocked on reflex, 70-75% on standard).

@Somi, yes that would be a great change for Conq, and also in line with the idea in the OP! Conq's would also be able to interrupt heavies with reflex, but perhaps it doesn't give a GB (less recovery time for victim compared to now), but a Conq overhaul could warrant its own thread.

@brash, the changes would allow all lights to continue against standard block but interrupted on reflex. Only a parry could stop heavies (and thus their chip), in addition to a huge stamina drain and perhaps a free light, so parry would be harder to pull off with slightly higher benefits. Part of the point of killing the defense meta is making parry a situational tool rather than the prime focus of gameplay.

Edited to add: I don't think this change would drastically change fast play, where an aggressor is constantly attacking from different directions, so your guard is also constantly changing, so reflex would constantly be refreshed in the right directions. The only thing it would significantly change is players who hold their guard in one certain direction in order to avoid their enemy's best attacks, e.g. top guard vs Orochi.