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View Full Version : Take off and landing in an I-16



OldPepper
05-15-2004, 06:13 PM
First of all, Im new to IL2 FBA.

I want to embark upon an IL2 campaing, and the first ship I have to deal with is the I-16.

I'm finding this plane far trickier than planes from later years and have been taking off and landing in quite well in the usual fighters and IL2s.

The I-16 is a tricky ride, indeed!

I am trying to take off with forced cockpit, lining up the runway perpendicular to my wing.

Now, should I deploy the landing flaps at take-off? Flaps have only 2 positions in this plane and i'm also not sure of the speed needed for takeoff (or landing, for that matter.)

When I manage to take off (usually with the help of rear chase camera) I then have damaged my gear too much to retract the gear!

Before giving specific advice, try taking off in the I16 with cockpit view only first! It's a real challenge! I can take off in pretty much most other planes with no troubles. This little bird, at the begining of a campaign will put me in Siberia in short order!

Thanks for your pointers! <S> ( S! )

OldPepper
05-15-2004, 06:13 PM
First of all, Im new to IL2 FBA.

I want to embark upon an IL2 campaing, and the first ship I have to deal with is the I-16.

I'm finding this plane far trickier than planes from later years and have been taking off and landing in quite well in the usual fighters and IL2s.

The I-16 is a tricky ride, indeed!

I am trying to take off with forced cockpit, lining up the runway perpendicular to my wing.

Now, should I deploy the landing flaps at take-off? Flaps have only 2 positions in this plane and i'm also not sure of the speed needed for takeoff (or landing, for that matter.)

When I manage to take off (usually with the help of rear chase camera) I then have damaged my gear too much to retract the gear!

Before giving specific advice, try taking off in the I16 with cockpit view only first! It's a real challenge! I can take off in pretty much most other planes with no troubles. This little bird, at the begining of a campaign will put me in Siberia in short order!

Thanks for your pointers! &lt;S&gt; ( S! )

Freycinet
05-15-2004, 06:26 PM
Welcome to FB!

Take-off in the I-16 is certainly doable, even in cockpit-only.

You need to drive out to the runway and align yourself as closely as possible with it. Choose wide view, so you can see down either side of the cockpit. Check out your heading and try to keep it as you accelerate down the runway. Make small rudder corrections when you start seeing more runway to one side than the other.

Your gear is broken after take-off you say? - You know it's manual, don't you? - You can't just press "gear" to raise it, you need to set buttons to "raise gear manually" and "lower gear manually" (I use shift-g and ctrl-g, easy to remember which is up and which is down). You must press the buttons several times until you get green lights on the dashboard...

Freycinet
05-15-2004, 06:27 PM
BTW, no need for flaps for take-off..

Athosd
05-15-2004, 06:44 PM
Hi OldPepper

Below is an extract from the flyable aircraft guide found on FB's second disc. One thing to note with this plane is that the gear must be raised and lowered manually - and the keys for this are not defined by default, you have to go into the games control setup and assign them yourself. I use 'Alt G' to raise gear and 'Ctrl G' to lower. Whilst raising or lowering gear you will be able to see a crank handle rotating in the right hand side of the cockpit. When the gear is fully raised two red lights on the dash board will light up - and the handle will stop winding.
For takeoff don't use the flaps - they are only necessary when landing (some don't even use them then). Torque is pretty heavy on this little beast so a fair amount of rudder will be needed to stay on the runway during takeoff. For a better view use the maximum zoom out and toggle the gunsight view (Shift F1) if needed for a slightly different perspective.

Enjoy

Athos


Polikarpov I-16
(Tip 18 and Tip 24)
Engine: 1,500 HP
Take-Off Speed: 150 km/h
Landing Speed: 145 km/h
Combat Engine Setting: 2,500 RPM
Best Cruise: 1,850 RPM
Economy Cruise: 1,600 RPM
Prop Pitch Control: Manual
Mixture Control: Manual
Boost: No
Supercharger: Two Speed
Pilot Notes:
Supercharger speeds need to be switched at around 1,500 meters.
Best performance altitude is between 0 and 3,500 meters.
Performance begins to deteriorate above 3,500 meters.

Edit - Geez you have to be quick off the mark on this board http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Also - Green lights on the dash are for gear fully down and locked - red are for fully retracted.

Edit 2 - You will also need to assign keys for the supercharger staging (next stage and previous stage are all thats needed) and mixture controls (Increase, decrease and 100 are all thats generally needed).

[This message was edited by Athosd on Sat May 15 2004 at 05:57 PM.]

SeaFireLIV
05-15-2004, 06:56 PM
As you start rolling she might start to twitch a bit. PUSH forward on the stick slightly as you pick up speed, this will help steady her. As you start to lift pull gently and let her gain height gracefully. Then when safe raise gears manually.

Job done.

You`ll do it in your sleep before long! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

(Advanced note: sometimes I actually use flaps in bad conditions to help steady her faster and gain height quicker)

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Impatient3.jpg

We`re coming for that Patch ready or not!

Covino
05-15-2004, 06:59 PM
For takeoff:
Flaps up

Keep steady back pressure on stick and use rudder to compensate torque (shouldn't use ailerons)

Slowly raise throttle to ~30% and hold it there until plane is steady

Slowly raise throttle to ~60% and hold it there until the plane is under your control

As you slowly raise your throttle to 100%, the plane should start to lift off (remember that you were holding the stick back a little)

Climb up relatively steeply to keep your airspeed low while you raise the landing gear (or else they will jam)

For landing:
Just make sure you touchdown slowly and right when the plane is buffeting on the edge of a stall and you should be fine

LEXX_Luthor
05-15-2004, 07:04 PM
What Athosd said, but if you will be using I~16 alot you need to map manual gear crank to "G" for up and "D" for down....you see you must tap these keys 44 times and you don't wanna hold Shift or Alt keys while doing it. In real life it took 44 hand cranks to make gear go up or down. The neat thing is that the F4F Wildcat in the new FP sim will also need manual landing gear crank so USA simmers/simmerettes can join the Fun.

Also, if your engine "mysteriously" cuts out on you in flight, its cos of negative gee starving carborator of fuel--confused me my first time in I~153. Don't push too hard on stick cos you will see pressure guage stutter and engine wants to stop. Roll into the direction you want to go and pull stick back. Also turbulent air settings can give you enough neg gees to cut your engine. You can restart but it takes time--learn your engine guages. Also, if far away from airfield or flying, I~16 can only start engine if moving faster than ~200km/hr. Same with other planes like Fiats and I~153. These also cut out engines but Hurri can be restarted at any speed. I love these features cos it makes the sim more challenging and you never get bored simming 1930s airplanes.

For takeoff, I focus on a sky feature in front of plane--like sun or clouds. It does not have to be directly in front. If the cloud moves sideways during takeoff roll then you use rudder to correct and put the cloud back where it belongs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Wellcome to Forgotten Board.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

lil_labbit
05-15-2004, 07:04 PM
All the above... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
... and ride that Harley Of Planes...
DO NOT go into negative G's - the engine will cut.
DO NOT use trim (it has none) - it's a real man's bike/plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Try the i153 too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif - that's the double-wing version http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif - its even better

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

OldPepper
05-15-2004, 07:24 PM
Great advice from many posters!

I certainly know about the neg G in this Harley!

As mentioned, I'm trying to get this all from cockpit view! Any hints on lining up the runway? Someone mentioned "picking out a cloud" at the right heading or so.

The push stick just prior to transition sounds golden as well. I also didn't realise it was a hand crank Gear retraction! No wonder I was confused!

Thanks for the tips! Any runway from cockpit tips?

Anyone can take off from rear chase view in anything! IMO, I enjoy trying to fly as the pilots of old, more or less! That's what makes it a "Simulation~!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Then again I can't slide the canopy open and peak out with my head!

RennyB
05-15-2004, 07:36 PM
Here's a quick runway tip. If you are in a line of A/C and you can't see if the planes in front of you, apply about 20% throttle and full rudder left or right. Pivot the A/C just enough to see the one in front of you. Now cut the throttle. This way there is no need to use a outside the cockpit view.

[This message was edited by RennyB on Sat May 15 2004 at 10:27 PM.]

Covino
05-15-2004, 07:41 PM
In case you don't know, to get a better view of the runway (good for takeoff and landing) use Shift+F1 to make sure you're sitting straight with your head back and switch to "wide view" (check you controls if you don't know the key).

lil_labbit
05-15-2004, 08:08 PM
lol maybe this might give an impression - it's realy bad though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif lol but successfull

rofl

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/i16badride.ntrk
right-click the link then "save target as" under &lt;drive&gt;:/program files/ubis soft/il2 sturmovik forgotten balttels/records...

then in-game play-record http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif change views as needed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I think it's from my Kuban map @ my homepage...

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


edit: oops - I realy need to update/grade that lol
kuban map is at :
http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/Kuban1.exe
it's a self extracting exe ...


http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

[This message was edited by lil_labbit on Sat May 15 2004 at 07:16 PM.]

[This message was edited by lil_labbit on Sat May 15 2004 at 07:18 PM.]

Zero Niner
05-16-2004, 10:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freycinet:
Your gear is broken after take-off you say? - You know it's manual, don't you? - You can't just press "gear" to raise it, you need to set buttons to "raise gear manually" and "lower gear manually" (I use shift-g and ctrl-g, easy to remember which is up and which is down). You must press the buttons several times until you get green lights on the dashboard...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ahh! *That* explains why I couldn't raise the gear in my Russian campaign!

leadbaloon
05-17-2004, 04:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
In real life it took 44 hand cranks to make gear go up or down. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a lot of turning. I once read an interview with a russian pilot (from a link put in this forum, but I can't find it now) who said that it was common practise among the pilots in his group to carry a small pair of pliers. They would use these to snip the wire that controlled the raising and lowering of the landing gear as they approached for landing, causing the gear to drop. This would save them having to wind the gear down, and the ground crew could fit a replacement wire easily.

I'm sure he also noted that the I-16 was supplied with a canopy, but that these were removed by the pilots because there was no way of removing it in an emergency. Anyone know any more about this, or where the link is to the original article.

LEXX_Luthor
05-17-2004, 05:01 AM
I heard the cable cutters were more an emergency thing to lower the gear. They didn't use flaps, I think they were jammed shut so nobody used them. Japanese too hated canopies.


Restored I~16 and I~153 website http://www.polikarpov.co.nz/


4 long pages of interview with I~16 pilot (also flew Hurri P~40 P~39 Yaks etc...)
---&gt; http://airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/


Do advanced google search for polikarpov i-16 lots of stuff out there



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Hawgdog
05-17-2004, 05:18 AM
HawgDog tip #25;

When starting in the I-16; Turn the prop pitch to about 30-40% BEFORE gunning the throttle prior to take off.
They really did model the torque correctly.
When you are rolling along at about 50-70 kph
zoom the pitch all the way up.
You'll jump in the air!!
Hope this helps, as I dont like giving up tips too often, but no-one reads threads about the **** planes except dedicated **** plane flyers.

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/HawgDog/sharkdog.gif
When you get to Hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent you!

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/HawgDog/says.jpg

ELEM
05-17-2004, 05:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by leadbaloon:
I'm sure he also noted that the I-16 was supplied with a canopy, but that these were removed by the pilots because there was no way of removing it in an emergency. Anyone know any more about this, or where the link is to the original article.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This might help you with the early I-16 variants:-

http://www.brushfirewars.org/aircraft/polikarpov_i-16/polikarpov_i-16_1.htm

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg

GuillermoZS
05-17-2004, 07:27 AM
Welcome OldPepper http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I think you have all the advices you need except one:

BE CAREFUL!!! THIS IS HIGHLY ADDICTIVE...

- In a few days you will ONLY be thinking in planes...

- You will be on your car through the street CHECKING YOUR SIX!!!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

OldPepper
05-17-2004, 08:48 AM
Indeed! Thanks again for the advice!

So far the top 2 tips taking off in this plane have been line up a cloud or something at the end of the runway, and the other was to gently push the stick forward as you gain speed and prior to transition. (Finding out about manual gear was excellent as well! DOH!)

The 30% prop pitch pointer is one I'll experiment with next. It's sure challenging and nail-biting taking off in these planes using ONLY cockpit view! And a lot of fun when the bird makes it into the air off the runway and not off the rough fields. I felt a real sense of accomplishment.

JimRockford
05-17-2004, 09:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
What Athosd said, but if you will be using I~16 alot you need to map manual gear crank to "G" for up and "D" for down....you see you must tap these keys 44 times and you don't wanna hold <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Of course you can always, (as I have done), program
the multiple keypresses in a macro and assign them to a button on your programmable joystick. I just press my MANUAL RAISE/or lOWER) GEAR button on the 'ol X-45 once and the gear raises/lowers just like any other plane. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif