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View Full Version : I have a question about the next PT... because it is toxic.



S0Mi_xD
09-11-2017, 01:30 AM
Dear Ubisoft,

about the next PT - what will be your changes for parry you want us to test?

I am asking, because last time, you reduced the parry reward to light attacks.
But in the community feedback, often the problematic topic poped up, that the parry punish wasn't nearly equal and some heroes did profit much more than other heroes, like Orochi, Warden (because of double light) - Shinobi, Warlord, Centurion, LB (specific parry counter move)
Edit:
You balanced Warlords parry counter in a good way :) good job on this

Now, since we started to mention the Def meta, i always was on the side of "Parry should give no free dmg", because acutally moves which give free dmg will be abused.
And you realized that Parry as a defensive move, which gives GBs, heavies etc. lead us into "turtles" and the defensive meta got a face.
Thats why i say, free dmg is toxic, it is poison for the flow of a game like for Honor, especially if it is a defensive move.

Free dmg, on melee moves are OK, because most of them are actually manageable, but you see the best example, where it works without free dmg is Gladiator.
So free dmg is not a needed thing in this game.

But back to the Parry - we all saw how much the PT changes affected the gameplay of the people, since they "only" got a light out of a parry.
And i really suggest you, to try out a day with Parry gives no reward.
There will be only one problem, those heroes which specific parry punish in their kit, would still have the advantage.
So what kind of solution would be possible here:

1. Give every hero a parry punish in their kit.
It doesn't need to be something special, it can be a recycelt move.
As an example, shugoki gets a headbutt with small dmg.
Valk, maybe her forward throw headbutt, or a shieldbash.
And so on..

2. Or give every hero a fast light that only is a light
like berserkers Light after a parry, that means every hero gets just a light attack out of it.

CandleInTheDark
09-11-2017, 01:42 AM
So basically the reward is that they don't take chip damage and they get the initiative (next attack but reactable), I kind of like the sound of that, though yeah you give the likes of centurion and gladiator an advantage that way for the reasons you gave.

TSCDescon
09-11-2017, 01:48 AM
Nice idea.

But, if these changes do go through, a lot of the characters will need a serious rework.

*looking at you Centurion*

S0Mi_xD
09-11-2017, 02:08 AM
So basically the reward is that they don't take chip damage and they get the initiative (next attack but reactable), I kind of like the sound of that, though yeah you give the likes of centurion and gladiator an advantage that way for the reasons you gave.


Nice idea.

But, if these changes do go through, a lot of the characters will need a serious rework.

*looking at you Centurion*

I suggested this idea since def meta became a topic in season 1.
It made much more sense back then, because the only hero with such a parry counter was Warlord ^^, but now Centurion, Shinobi, and Right Glad i forgot :D, LB has something similar.
And if this is a trend by the Devs, a way to go would be
To remove all those parry punisher, or give every hero one.

And somehow i tend more to "give every heroe a parry punish", this would be a good way to take away all dmg from Parry (in form of lights heavies, zones ) and instead give every hero a Parry punish where you can start mix ups with.

Candle, basicly yes, i think parry should be in first line a purely defensive tool, with the potential to counterattack ^^.

TSCDescon, serious rework, yeah - i think so aswell, giving every hero a new move (even if the movement will be recycelt will take some time)

Only queston after that would be, should the safe dmg from the counterattacks, like warlord light poke, or the shinobi bleed, etc be removed to mix ups, like they did with warlords heavy from parry counter, or should a small dmg be guaranteed from every hero parry counter (if everyone gets such a move)

In my opinion, the current safe dmg on those counter moves should go aswell.
But i am not the only one here, so what do you guys think?

UbiNoty
09-11-2017, 02:26 AM
Yes! We're aware of that, which is why we're trying to get started on some of the bigger hero changes. I know it's slow in coming, but our balancing team is doing their utmost to make sure that they can deliver to you all fully formed, balanced, and playable heroes even after the full def meta update.

S0Mi_xD
09-11-2017, 02:36 AM
Yes! We're aware of that, which is why we're trying to get started on some of the bigger hero changes. I know it's slow in coming, but our balancing team is doing their utmost to make sure that they can deliver to you all fully formed, balanced, and playable heroes even after the full def meta update.

Thank you for the answer :)
Thats good to know ^^ now i can go to bed and have some sweet dreams ;D

TSCDescon
09-11-2017, 02:39 AM
Honestly, I think something similar to crushing counter strike should be the parry mechanic because its harder to land one.

kweassa1
09-11-2017, 07:41 AM
Like I've said elsewhere, the Warlord's shieldcounter nerf is simply a tell-tale sign for me, in that the exact same mechanics exist in other classes as well. Everything about the current warlord nerf just SCREAMS of it being a "testbed" for future nerfs to come.

Hence, if we do a little thought-experiment by applying the defense metafix with the current warlord nerf, and then add in a little seasoning on top of it by bringing in certain elements of the Highlander and the Gladiator as an example, I have a pretty good guess as to what to expect of the defense metafix.

PDXGorechild
09-11-2017, 08:46 AM
Totally agree S0mi, free damage is toxic for a game like this. Not being able to defend yourself is boring.

Ideal changes for For honour, in my opinion:

Parry gives no free light or heavy or guard break. Instead, you don't get any chip damage and you drain the enemies stamina. As an added bonus, if you parry somebody into a wall, you get a free heavy. This makes it worth the risk if you're good enough to pull it off consistently as it also gives you the initiative for the next attack. Is this not reward enough? It makes it far more favourable than blocking without giving players a free hit.

Guard break gives no free heavy, only light. Also if you throw someone into a wall you get a free heavy. This will give classes with a double top light like Orochi the edge, though. So that'll have to be looked into I guess. I can imagine some players will still abuse this, only ever going for guard break for the free light and rinse and repeat.

My.Insanity
09-11-2017, 09:25 AM
totaly agree... each kind of free dmg will be abused in ways which makes me sad.

I hope we dont have to wait too long for some parry changes... with the new tournament mode I kinda like to play some duels from time to time.. but parry/gb is still cancer.

Netcode_err_404
09-11-2017, 12:02 PM
Nice idea.

But, if these changes do go through, a lot of the characters will need a serious rework.

*looking at you Centurion*

there are only 3 classes that need a rework.

Conq
Orochi
Pk.


Cent just needs a nerf.


Oh yeah, lolbringer.