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fullrealfly3r
05-03-2004, 01:10 PM
In addition to the p51, i also take up the p39, but what is the deal with the cannon?!

It is the caliber of most naval guns. It shouldn't take more than 2 exploding shells to down a plane, usually only 1 was sufficient. However, in this sim, ive hit bf109s with up to 10 37mm on and offline. Fw190s can take up to 14 (my record, whats yours? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif). what is the deal?

fullrealfly3r
05-03-2004, 01:10 PM
In addition to the p51, i also take up the p39, but what is the deal with the cannon?!

It is the caliber of most naval guns. It shouldn't take more than 2 exploding shells to down a plane, usually only 1 was sufficient. However, in this sim, ive hit bf109s with up to 10 37mm on and offline. Fw190s can take up to 14 (my record, whats yours? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif). what is the deal?

jjlooxgood
05-03-2004, 01:19 PM
In IL-2, 37mm only fires flares...
Just like the Royal Canadian Navy of today.

(BTW, Disney Land has 3 submarines, and the Royal Canadian Navy has...well...2! 1 of them is bought from the Britain...which turned out to be no better than WWII U-boats).

---- Doombringer ----

lbhskier37
05-03-2004, 01:21 PM
You are talking onlie I am guessing. All cannons are messed up online, accept maybe the hispano. The patch should be addressing this. After the patch, watch your backhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You aren't gonna wanna be jumped, especailly by a 190 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/pics/Killasig6.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896)
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

Gibbage1
05-03-2004, 01:37 PM
Ya. It will be fixed. I heard a single 37MM hit will remove the tail section off a FW-190. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Just like it should!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fullrealfly3r:
In addition to the p51, i also take up the p39, but what is the deal with the cannon?!

It is the caliber of most naval guns. It shouldn't take more than 2 exploding shells to down a plane, usually only 1 was sufficient. However, in this sim, ive hit bf109s with up to 10 37mm on and offline. Fw190s can take up to 14 (my record, whats yours? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif). what is the deal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My post's are my asumptions only, and in no way linked to fact. I am not an official 1C, Ubi, or Russian Red Rocket spokesman.

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

adadaead
05-03-2004, 01:47 PM
Wait a minute guys almost the same things happens offline, will the patch fixed the problem offline, i mean it doesn't take 14 hit but sometimes when germans sink in 3 hits it's kinda frastating or is it normal.



Only in the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.

adadaead
05-03-2004, 01:47 PM
3 hits in the wing or fuselage.



Only in the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.

xTHRUDx
05-03-2004, 02:32 PM
it would interesting to compare 37 mm hits upon enemy planes and 37mm hits upon ground vehicels. i can get a tank with one shot but a plane is different. damage against plane vs damage against tank...hmmm

Whatsmypassword
05-03-2004, 03:35 PM
I read an interview of a Pe-2 pilot (in Russian at http://www.airforce.ru/history/ww2/anosov/index.htm ). He said he witnessed that how a Me-109 became a fireball after one hit with a 37 mm cannon shell of a Yak-9T. Luftwaffe pilots were ordered to avoid Yaks-9T.

--------------
YAK-9
http://www.ares.cz/hobby/smer/picture/0836.jpg

Curly_109
05-03-2004, 03:38 PM
1 x 37mm should blow up everything in this game (online or offline) however it does not http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif... i mean 14 hits http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

that's enough for some serious building leveling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

LuftLuver
05-03-2004, 03:48 PM
The 37mm has never been really right.

In one game version it was decent at wing removal, but I have watched hundreds of hits to the top of the fuselage just behind the canopy....do nothing. You have to be a great shot with that gun and it's digusting to see the results some times.

I would also speculate that 190 drivers don't want a Yak3P anywhere near them. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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ImpStarDuece
05-03-2004, 06:43 PM
The 37mm has only about 6% of its weight as HE filler. This equal out to about 45 grams of HE (tetryl). Compare this to the German 30mm 108 and 103 and they have between 24-26% of their weight made up of HE (up to 85 grams of Nitropenta and Hexogene- a plastic explosive with abotu 25% more power than Tetryl). While they have similar MV/s (500 m/sec for mk 108/103 and about 650m/sec for the M4 Oldsmobile cannon) the mk 103/108 minegenschloss (spelling??) didn't have the same penetration/kenetic power as they were drawn steel shells with much thinner walls. Hence less spalling effect from thier correspondingly larger chemical effect. The blastfront and supersonic wavefront of the 30mm shells were much bigger than that of the 37mm so they probably have similar or even larger destructive capacity than the M4 37mm. This is particularly effective when striking wingtips and control surfaces but not as effective when striking the main airframe section due to its heavier surface armour and more solid internal structure, as well as pilot armour and other armoured section of the plane.

For example it is doubtful whether the 30mm was any better at shooting down heavily armoured targets than the 20mm due to its lower penetration value. But it is far more likely to put a plane like an IL-2 out of the fight with battle damage because even a surface explosion will significantly warp or destroy control surfaces (elevators, rudders, control linkages ect) without causing major structural damage.

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

BS87
05-03-2004, 07:52 PM
Yes, the 30mm Mk108 had more of a more powerful explosive than the 37mm, but if you could hit a plane with 10+ m108 REGULARLY (it happens on a few occasions, but with the 37mm its a joke) the board would be flooded non-stop with whines.

JG7_Rall
05-03-2004, 08:04 PM
You think the 37mm is bad? All guns are awful. At least it can shoot something down, the MG17 doesn't do anything.

"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

Fehler
05-03-2004, 09:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG7_Rall:
You think the 37mm is bad? All guns are awful. At least it can shoot something down, the MG17 doesn't do anything.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually (And I wish I had recorded a track) I was hit hard the other night and lost all cannon and MG save for a single MG. I got behind an IL2 and started shooting. I guess the IL2 driver was laughing at my MG and never even bothered to take evasive actions. I ducked down just a little and fired two bursts into his radiator! His engine smoked up and he had to bail a couple of minutes later!

I was so amazed I had to pinch myself!

I really wish I had made a track!

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Urist
05-03-2004, 09:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jjlooxgood:
In IL-2, 37mm only fires flares...
Just like the Royal Canadian Navy of today.

(BTW, Disney Land has 3 submarines, and the Royal Canadian Navy has...well...2! 1 of them is bought from the Britain...which turned out to be no better than WWII U-boats).

---- Doombringer ----<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Royal Canadian Navy did have 3 Oberon class boats, all taken out of service if I rememeber correctly as well 1 boat used for training for a total of four. They were notoriously quiet boats, although extremely old (Sea King old).

We are in the process of purchasing four UK Upholder class boats (called the Victoria class here) that other then being diesel-electric are very capable, modern, and silent boats.

All of them were bought from the UK.... Canada doesn't really need subs except for coastal patrols and the odd international operation that requires stealth (we are one of the few countries that still uses modern diesel boats). Oh, and as targets for our ASW guys...

Not that this has anything to do with 37mm cannon on the P39... But if your gonna poke fun at the Canadian navy...

On topic, any time i've managed to hit something with that gun, it generally gets cut in half. Unless its from six o'clock, after which he/she probably isn't going to be making any sudden manouvers.

[This message was edited by Urist on Mon May 03 2004 at 08:47 PM.]

Urist
05-03-2004, 09:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Urist:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jjlooxgood:
In IL-2, 37mm only fires flares...
Just like the Royal Canadian Navy of today.

(BTW, Disney Land has 3 submarines, and the Royal Canadian Navy has...well...2! 1 of them is bought from the Britain...which turned out to be no better than WWII U-boats).

---- Doombringer ----<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Royal Canadian Navy did have 3 Oberon class boats, all taken out of service if I rememeber correctly as well 1 boat used for training for a total of four. They were notoriously quiet boats, although extremely old (Sea King old).

We are in the process of purchasing four UK Upholder class boats (called the Victoria class here) that other then being diesel-electric are very capable, modern, and silent boats.

All of them were bought from the UK.... Canada doesn't really need subs except for coastal patrols and the odd international operation that requires stealth (we are one of the few countries that still uses modern diesel boats). Oh, and as targets for our ASW guys...

Not that this has anything to do with 37mm cannon on the P39... But if your gonna poke fun at the Canadian navy...

On topic, any time i've managed to hit something with that gun, it generally gets cut in half. Unless its from six o'clock, after which he/she probably isn't going to be making any sudden manouvers.

edit: We are leasing those subs, and the last one is supposed to be delivered this month.

VW-IceFire
05-03-2004, 10:46 PM
Part of the problem is the limitations of the DM engine. It sometimes will record a hit but only to a aileron. So you can do full damage to the aileron without damaging the wing or the same damage to the rudder without hurting the tail.

The explosive ability caries over but apparently not the rest of the damage. Hard to calculate I guess.

Even so, its all a little wrong right now and probably will be better later. There isn't something specifically wrong with the 37mm cannon...its across the board.

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Esckey666
05-03-2004, 11:44 PM
What about the Yak-9k? That thing has a 45mm

xTHRUDx
05-03-2004, 11:55 PM
there needs to be an insta-gib setting http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

kondor999
05-04-2004, 01:13 AM
A reasonable interim solution would be to make ANY hit to a fighter-sized target with 37mm or higher result in instant death. Maybe make it 2 hits for the 30mm guns (unless you hit the cockpit or something). This pretty much agree with combat reports (the Luftwaffe was pretty anatical about compiling this data - I can provide references if you need them).

I think the DM is great for simulating hits by small rifle-caliber rounds, but is OVER-modeled when it comes to cannon hits.

As regards bombers, I have no idea what to do about that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Lazy312
05-04-2004, 02:22 AM
"While they have similar MV/s (500 m/sec for mk 108/103 and about 650m/sec for the M4 Oldsmobile cannon) the mk 103/108 minegenschloss (spelling??) didn't have the same penetration/kenetic power as they were drawn steel shells with much thinner walls."

500m/s and 650 m/s is quite a difference. BTW M4 shell has more than 3 times greater kinetic energy.

I agree with the rest. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

wooden planes, iron men

Red_Storm
05-04-2004, 02:39 AM
The Luftwaffe was ordered to stay away from Yak-9K's? LOL

---
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RAF238thKnight
05-04-2004, 03:12 AM
Since I have been in a few engagements with the FW 190 (online), in the Warcoulds room I have been nailed with a burst of MG and have been instantly blown up. In comparison to the other weapons they are quite good on certain types of planes. When it comes to DM I would like them to be as precise as possible. Having modeled planes for that other sim I have seen the DM boxes and they are very BIG.

Heres to the patch may it solve many issues without creating new ones.

Knight