PDA

View Full Version : Gladiator Zone Punish/Spam Ideas



High-Horse
09-08-2017, 08:22 PM
I'm really digging the Gladiator and have been playing it "a lot" (as much as a 5 month old will let me), and while most of the kit is fair and punishable, the zone is a real legitimate complaint and the only confirmed damage the kit has (if the stun lands).

I've got a couple suggestions that I feel are really good, so if I've missed something and they're actually terrible, let me know. I'll try to explain them as much as I can.

First
- The followup attack after a successful stun can be parried or dodged but cannot be blocked
- - This creates a mindgame similar to a Raider's Stunning Tap>Zone Attack with subtle differences. You can try to parry or dodge it blind, but you can't block because Guard hasn't recovered from the stun. The timing is tighter though, so if you can parry or dodge that followup after being stunned, you deserve the punish. The Glad then has to adapt their use of zone. Punishment for this zone is currently almost non-existent.

Second and lastly,
- A successful stun or followup hit puts the Glad's stamina regeneration on a brief pause.
- - By the time the enemy has recovered from the stun or the attack, the Glad is nearly full stam again and ready to zone. This makes the (arguably) best zone also the most spammable. This change would mean it has to be used more tactfully and actually makes the Glad care about stamina management, which is also almost non-existent. Maybe 1.5-2 seconds?

I think these changes together would bring the zone in line with the rest of the kit, being that it doesn't guarantee damage and gives the enemy a chance to punish the Glad while reducing its spam and forcing more careful use.

What do you think?

Edit: I just realized that without Guard, it actually is not possible to get deflect/superior block from dodges. Parry and Counterstrike would still work tho, as well as a raw dodge back or side with correct timing. Dodging the followup may very well lead to a free Guard Break against the Glad just like dodging the stun can lead to a parry of the followup currently.

S0Mi_xD
09-09-2017, 12:09 AM
Both ways would be interesting, but i think it is already "pretty easy" to punish if you manage to dodge the unblockable, so you can parry/deflect the follow up.

That's why i would say after the unblockable hits, your stamina stops to regen for 5 seconds.
Would be fair, not much of a change and easy to add for the devs.

High-Horse
09-09-2017, 12:16 AM
I was thinking both. 5 seconds is probably way too long

S0Mi_xD
09-09-2017, 12:40 AM
I was thinking both. 5 seconds is probably way too long

Ah ok, if both would be applied, then 3 seconds would be fine, in my opinion, this would be enough pause, to beginn stam regen after the attack is finished.
Also, if a zone is parried, the parry will not drain more stamina from you (as far as i saw in ingame), that means the parry wouldn't be that dangerous for Glad.

UbiNoty
09-09-2017, 02:13 AM
I can bring up the suggestion!
Also keep in mind we haven't revealed the full extent of parry changes, so that might have a slight impact on what you've brought up, but will still bring it up to the team!

Moondyne_MC
09-09-2017, 06:07 AM
Personally I think Fuscina Ictus could do with some toning down. The mere fact that it can be used anywhere in any chain, as well as from neutral is enough of a boon, without adding the sheer speed, UB property, and the knockdown when OoS. Altogether it's a bit much, if it had stricter requisites for activation (only at the end of a 2+ hit chain for example) it'd be a bit easier to anticipate and perhaps actually occasianally punish.

mrmistark
09-09-2017, 05:24 PM
Really? You think his zone is OP? It really doesn't do a crazy amount of damage, the stun is the same animation practically to a normal jab and it takes a butt load of stamina. Perhaps it's because I don't have max gear yet but I don't even consider ever using it because of how detrimental it is to my stamina. I use it only as a finisher if I need one light or heavy and can't seem to get it in. If I need a heavy I'll light one side, heavy feint other into it.

^^As for the toe stab I don't find it op at all. Very annoying, very spammable but does almost no damage from what I see. It comes down to the same concept as fight nobushi, lawbringer, valk, etc., respect the space. I thinks it's completely fair as it's easily avoidable and really doesn't do anything significant as a whole. If times right a heavy from any character while moving backwards can dodge it and punish for a free heavy.

High-Horse
09-09-2017, 06:21 PM
Really? You think his zone is OP? It really doesn't do a crazy amount of damage, the stun is the same animation practically to a normal jab and it takes a butt load of stamina.

Not necessarily OP, just very good, very easy to use, more spammable with regen, and on top of all that, very hard to punish. If they're dodging the stun to parry the followup, you can feint the followup and catch their dodge with a GB, or a light/toestab if they're too fast.

Not that it's overly difficult to deal with, just that the damage is too easy to pull off vs how hard it is to defend against. Without nerfing speed or damage, my idea balances it towards the middle of attack vs defense.

High-Horse
09-09-2017, 07:41 PM
Personally I think Fuscina Ictus could do with some toning down. The mere fact that it can be used anywhere in any chain, as well as from neutral is enough of a boon, without adding the sheer speed, UB property, and the knockdown when OoS. Altogether it's a bit much, if it had stricter requisites for activation (only at the end of a 2+ hit chain for example) it'd be a bit easier to anticipate and perhaps actually occasianally punish.

I think it's plenty of punishable and is a great mixup. It's pretty slow and on fire when it activates, and it's even slower when used against anyone OOS.

mrmistark
09-09-2017, 09:29 PM
I think it's plenty of punishable and is a great mixup. It's pretty slow and on fire when it activates, and it's even slower when used against anyone OOS.

Agreed. Honestly glad is the hero I wish every hero could be. No guaranteed damage, plenty of options but none that are really overpowered. It's the perfect balance between working hard for damage and having enough options to help you be successful unlike other characters (I know this isn't everyone's opinion) like cent that doesn't require you to work that hard for damage and kensei and zerker that work too hard for their damage.

High-Horse
09-09-2017, 10:16 PM
Agreed. Honestly glad is the hero I wish every hero could be. No guaranteed damage, plenty of options but none that are really overpowered. It's the perfect balance between working hard for damage and having enough options to help you be successful unlike other characters (I know this isn't everyone's opinion) like cent that doesn't require you to work that hard for damage and kensei and zerker that work too hard for their damage.

Exactly! And that's the idea behind a zone tweak, to get it in line with the rest of the kit. If the stun hits, the followup is confirmed. If they dodge the stun, they can parry the followup, but if you're quick enough, you can feint the followup and punish their parry attempt. It seems a little one sided, even considering the huge stamina cost. I don't want to reduce the zone's power, just provide another opportunity to counter it. It's too hard to counter vs how easy that damage is to pull off, imo.