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matt89connor
09-08-2017, 08:54 AM
i'm stop for 2 mounths to using him cause of defensive meta ( i'm not play defensevly with him) and the highlander, but now they nerf him, is a good nerf or now they destroy the best WL tattics?
I ask because he was my first hero

Halvtand
09-08-2017, 09:31 AM
WL main. In my eyes they've pretty much destroyed the current way of playing the character. Given some time, new playstyles will emerge, but I highly doubt that the character will recover unless other characters are nerfed or WL is rebuffed. Just take a look at these two quotes from the patch notes (v 1.13):

"We want him to rely more on his shield and sword to counter the opponent than dodging." (from dev comments "dodge")
"Even at full stamina getting parried into Shield Counter when attacking with a Heavy results in Out of Stamina state. It was too big of a punishment in this case. [...] We think Counter Slash didn’t bring anything more than free damage in some situation and nothing in the others. We think that being able to continue with a Heavy attack that can be chained or feinted will create more interesting opportunities." (from dev comments "Shield Counter")

So according to their own words they want to make the character more static, relying on blocks and parries for defence rather than dodging. Then they nerf the thing they want us to use not only in terms of it's effect (the actual drain to stamina) but also the follow-up attack. In short the move they say they want WL to use more is now worse, which means that there is less reward in-game for using it. Also, the emergence of new characters with moves that are guaranteed damage unless they are successfully dodged and possibly followed with an attack makes the character even worse off. I'm thinking about moves like Shinobi's teleport-kick, Highlander's guaranteed unblockable heavy after unblockable kick and Gladiator's very spammable toe-stab.
WL also does less damage over all now, as the only moves that were boosted were the ones that can't be used since they'll only get parried and punished anyway, all other damage was nerfed.
Furthermore I've started to see a huge increase in the charge-attack not connecting even if the opponent does not try to evade. Just yesterday I ran into two people in two separate maps that apparently managed to evade the attack by simply walking slowly to the side while my WL was running up against them, causing him to slide off and eat a free punish.

matt89connor
09-08-2017, 09:50 AM
WL main. In my eyes they've pretty much destroyed the current way of playing the character. Given some time, new playstyles will emerge, but I highly doubt that the character will recover unless other characters are nerfed or WL is rebuffed. Just take a look at these two quotes from the patch notes (v 1.13):

"We want him to rely more on his shield and sword to counter the opponent than dodging." (from dev comments "dodge")
"Even at full stamina getting parried into Shield Counter when attacking with a Heavy results in Out of Stamina state. It was too big of a punishment in this case. [...] We think Counter Slash didn’t bring anything more than free damage in some situation and nothing in the others. We think that being able to continue with a Heavy attack that can be chained or feinted will create more interesting opportunities." (from dev comments "Shield Counter")

So according to their own words they want to make the character more static, relying on blocks and parries for defence rather than dodging. Then they nerf the thing they want us to use not only in terms of it's effect (the actual drain to stamina) but also the follow-up attack. In short the move they say they want WL to use more is now worse, which means that there is less reward in-game for using it. Also, the emergence of new characters with moves that are guaranteed damage unless they are successfully dodged and possibly followed with an attack makes the character even worse off. I'm thinking about moves like Shinobi's teleport-kick, Highlander's guaranteed unblockable heavy after unblockable kick and Gladiator's very spammable toe-stab.
WL also does less damage over all now, as the only moves that were boosted were the ones that can't be used since they'll only get parried and punished anyway, all other damage was nerfed.
Furthermore I've started to see a huge increase in the charge-attack not connecting even if the opponent does not try to evade. Just yesterday I ran into two people in two separate maps that apparently managed to evade the attack by simply walking slowly to the side while my WL was running up against them, causing him to slide off and eat a free punish.

first, i have to thank you for this good answer, second i'll think will be hard fight riders cent and LBand the shinobi since this nerf...what do you yhink about that?

Halvtand
09-08-2017, 10:40 AM
first, i have to thank you for this good answer, second i'll think will be hard fight riders cent and LBand the shinobi since this nerf...what do you yhink about that?

Good point.
Raider has been hard since they got that huge buff which gave them the ability to cancel any heavy into their jumping light. It seems easy to avoid on paper, but in practice they tend to hit more times than not. also they got their rush-grab tweaked to connect almost every time, even though you're mid-dodge away from them, so yes, Raider is hard.

Cent isn't as hard as you'd think. Yes, he has some really good tools, and that kick can lead to a guaranteed heavy and from there to his normal chains. I think this one depends too much on the player to say definitively, but the fact that WL can no longer counter the kick with a headbutt does not bode well for him.

LB I feel is now in the spot that WL was before, good defence and still a healthy mix of offensive stuff. Post-nerf I'd say that LB has a clear advantage with his shove on block. WL can no longer use the headbutt effectively to get past it, and has no unblockables, so it'll be really interesting to see how this plays out.

Shinobi is only really a threat if you allow it to set the pace of the fight. Before the post a good WL could keep up the pressure and essentially back the guy into a corner. Now, with longer cooldowns on dodge and less damage per swing against Shinobi's long-range attacks and fast lights. I don't really know. I have never gotten used to fighting shinobi to start with, but it feels like Shin will have a much easier time now.

In the end, it all comes down to individual players. I just finished a game with an 18/2 kdr with WL, next one might be the other way around depending on the people on both my and the opposing team. What is clear is that WL is no longer a strong character in the game. I never agreed that he should be in some kind of "god tier", but rather that he was a good all-rounder, a solid base for a team, but with some clear drawbacks such as missing a dodge-attack and proper unblockable attacks. While he is still better than Conq (my sub) I can't say that his place in the tier list has been properly adjusted yet, but I will be very surprised if he ends up above mid-tier.

gj4063
09-08-2017, 12:49 PM
Very well said, Halvtand.

As soon as I read that they wanted them to use their shield more, all I thought of was all the things the shield doesn't work against and WL needs to dodge...

kbvlcvfkhgc
09-08-2017, 06:30 PM
I read the patch notes this morning, man oh man have Ubisoft brought down the Nerf hammer hard on the WL, my oh my what a way to completely cripple a character?

the Guy needed some adjustments not an absolute gutting, the thing i don't get is why UBi are so inconsistent in their application of balancing?, the WL gets absolutely gutted yet the Universally despised Centurion gets in effect another pass? they claim they don't want to Cripple the centurion but have no problem completely crippling the WL? this forum is littered with complaints about the Centurion but they decide its the WL that needs to be nerfed hard? i just don't get the logic that this company works with? they've killed the Shug, The Conq and now the WL yet they continue to refuse to address the biggest Cancer in the game, namely the Centurion Scum?

Vakris_One
09-08-2017, 06:40 PM
I read the patch notes this morning, man oh man have Ubisoft brought down the Nerf hammer hard on the WL, my oh my what a way to completely cripple a character?

the Guy needed some adjustments not an absolute gutting, the thing i don't get is why UBi are so inconsistent in their application of balancing?, the WL gets absolutely gutted yet the Universally despised Centurion gets in effect another pass? they claim they don't want to Cripple the centurion but have no problem completely crippling the WL? this forum is littered with complaints about the Centurion but they decide its the WL that needs to be nerfed hard? i just don't get the logic that this company works with? they've killed the Shug, The Conq and now the WL yet they continue to refuse to address the biggest Cancer in the game, namely the Centurion Scum?
Logic would suggest it is because Warlord has been in the game from the start so they've been sharpening their nerf axe on his visage for longer than Centurion. They are just really slow with the balance changes and unfortunately when they do finally apply a balance change it results in an over the top nerf on the character.

UbiInsulin
09-08-2017, 08:35 PM
I read the patch notes this morning, man oh man have Ubisoft brought down the Nerf hammer hard on the WL, my oh my what a way to completely cripple a character?

the Guy needed some adjustments not an absolute gutting, the thing i don't get is why UBi are so inconsistent in their application of balancing?, the WL gets absolutely gutted yet the Universally despised Centurion gets in effect another pass? they claim they don't want to Cripple the centurion but have no problem completely crippling the WL? this forum is littered with complaints about the Centurion but they decide its the WL that needs to be nerfed hard? i just don't get the logic that this company works with? they've killed the Shug, The Conq and now the WL yet they continue to refuse to address the biggest Cancer in the game, namely the Centurion Scum?

The team is working on balancing the Cent right now. Changes are on the way, although there's no ETA.

They've also seen the feedback from the community on the WL nerfs, and I'm sure they'll be going into this on the next Warrior's Den. The fight team is getting feedback on the changes directly from the community workshop players right now.

Velentix
09-08-2017, 10:22 PM
i'm stop for 2 mounths to using him cause of defensive meta ( i'm not play defensevly with him) and the highlander, but now they nerf him, is a good nerf or now they destroy the best WL tattics?
I ask because he was my first hero

As a WL main, I think it is fair to say the WL is close to useless now. the main problem I think is that they wanted him to use his shield more, but they already nerfed the board and blade move, making it usable only on people who aren't very cautious and and don't really feint. admittedly this move is great for dom, but in a duel setting warlord hasn't got much to rely on any more, his headbutt now is to the point where its a guaranteed punish. overall he's just slow and weak now, and should you outsmart your opponent, they can just run away since he's one of the slowest runners in the game. he has good survivability true, but next to no killing ability now. maybe if he had an unblockable attack that did damage it would change, or heaven forbid some actual combos, but as of right now he's even more of a turtle than ever. good for boosting zones in dom essentially. If the devs are dead set on keeping this nerf then they better add in a few extra combos for him. either way if pretty much any assassin needs and easy kill, go after the WLs. you'll be able to walk all over him.

matt89connor
09-10-2017, 08:41 AM
I have to thanks for all suggestions,i try WL, and in PC, is very hard vs expert players, i'm maybe the only 1 who play offesevly because i hate the turtle, but with this changes is hard for me play like that

Jarl.Felix
09-10-2017, 01:18 PM
Chill, because Ubifail have no plan when it comes to balance and just move like the wind after whomever cries more, they will for sure buff WL again.