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View Full Version : POLL: What do you think about the removal of time-snap?



Camemberto
09-07-2017, 10:20 AM
Does it make the game more responsive, or does timing just feel inconsistent?

Illyrian_King
09-07-2017, 02:40 PM
I dind't even understand what it is ^^

PrimaGoosa
09-07-2017, 02:45 PM
I think this is one of those less generally understood concepts, especially with regard to its impact. I saw some video footage that seemed to show that without time-snap, the reaction times for many attacks went down fairly significantly, from 500 ms to ~415 to 420 ms in some cases. Pre-removal, I don't remember feeling like input was laggy at all.

Kaijudub
09-07-2017, 02:51 PM
It's a big reason in why i've stopped playing. Nothing feels consistent anymore and the difference between online play and offline play is incredible. Kensei side lights coming from Africa and PK zones that hit you before the indicator has shown. GB timing seems the same but the amount of GB's that just get swallowed by your opponent has increased by a lot.

No body wants to play a game that you spend 90% of the time saying " NO WAY, I BLAH BLAH'd THAT"

I can't wait to see what this evidence that Roman is apparently showing today. He could really do with turning down his condescending tones towards the community imo.

PDXGorechild
09-07-2017, 02:57 PM
Can somebody please explain the specifics of what time snap is, and the overall impact on gameplay with or without.

PrimaGoosa
09-07-2017, 03:03 PM
GB timing seems the same but the amount of GB's that just get swallowed by your opponent has increased by a lot.

This actually happens to me all the time, I start a GB about or soon after an opponent starts a GB, and I just get GB'd. I just don't feel like I'm in a position where I know for sure it's time-snap removal that is the culprit, or something else. I know if two people GB at the same time they bounce off one another, but that means there's a weird valley where you can press the button after you see a GB, but before it connects, and you just get GB'd. Feels really awkward.

As far as a definition of time snap, here's a comment from the competitive Reddit that I think does a good job explaining: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6kurcx/time_snap_removal_question/djprygw/


I will try to explain as I understand it. Lets say the "increment tick clock" starts exactly at 3pm. So the first "snap" happens at 3pm + 100ms. So any action that were input between 3pm and the first tick will "snap" to the first tick (3pm + 100ms). And every action that happens between the ticks (which are the previous tick time+ 100ms) will snap to the next tick time. So for example if player A inputs light attack at 3pm+30ms and B inputs at 3pm+70ms they will be registered as having done at the same time (they will snap to 3pm+100ms). I used the "3pm" time just to make it a bit clearer that the game runs on some "global time", probably syncronized from server or something that determines when the ticks happen. Probably the server will tell both players that this instant is time 0 and now we will start counting ticks etc. So in practice if you input something it might be registered instantly if the time of the input was exactly on the tick or it might register at worst around 100ms later if the input was slightly later than the tick. You can think of it as buses going at 100ms intervals. Sometimes you don't have to wait and sometimes you have to wait more.
Someone correct me if I got this wrong.

And his follow up:


You are welcome. As for the effect that this change would have we can't really tell. Hope the devs have some sort of an idea though. Not taking any bugs into account I think that this is just going to allow more interruptions with attacks. Because with the snap there is a 100ms window where 2 equal speed attacks would come at the exact same time. With the snap removal it "might" be that many (or just a few) attacks won't trade anymore, because the other player was for example 50ms faster to input it. Or you could parry more attacks than before because now your parry doesn't get "delayed" (not really delayed, but it might get you out of the parry window) for the few crucial milliseconds and you hit the window. This is now maybe a bit too wild speculation but the snap removal might actually help with the "assassin guard change not working thing" everyone is talking about. Not sure if guard change is snapped but if it is then you potentially might have a bit bigger window to block the attack because if the attack and your block were input on different ticks (block was later) then just a 10ms delay on the block could mean +90ms more wait time until it "registered as an input".

I'm not 100% sure if his assessment is perfect, but it's a start.

Oupyz
09-07-2017, 03:16 PM
Timesnap needs to come back , character with fast light attack or cent with his heavy attacks barely showing

this is effecting gameplay way 2 much

Lyskir
09-07-2017, 03:19 PM
Timesnap needs to come back , character with fast light attack or cent with his heavy attacks barely showing

this is effecting gameplay way 2 much

10000000% this

Kaijudub
09-07-2017, 03:44 PM
Can somebody please explain the specifics of what time snap is, and the overall impact on gameplay with or without.

Short and simply its a lag cushion.

SplugeKing
09-07-2017, 05:07 PM
I think I understand it in a simple way but the last week or so everything feels way less consistent. Which as a raider main is incredibly frustrating. Parrying lights is essential to being a really good raider, yet after I parry, sometimes I won't be able to follow up with a heavy fast enough. 30 FPS is not fast enough to continuously parry lights do when you do and can't capitalize it's very frustrating.

I feel like I experience this once a week every month

psyminion
09-07-2017, 06:12 PM
I noticed as soon as they disabled it.

one day I'm deflecting regularly with my orochi, the next day I'm eating EVERYTHING I try to deflect and 50% of the stuff I'm trying to block.

I know I'm a scrub level player, and I also know I'm at the age where reflexes start to slip a little but for me, pre/post time-snap is like day/night.

Vonnivek
09-07-2017, 06:42 PM
After timesnap is removed, I can't roll back at warden's SB
almost every time I press double X (I'm on ps4), I can't roll back and still get hit

UbiNoty
09-08-2017, 01:17 AM
To help shed some light, time snap essentially forced synced inputs every 100ms (I believe) to make extra sure things on the battlefield were synced up. So it kind of gated all your actions and forced them to sync at specific intervals, which is why it probably felt easier to react to certain things.
Now with it gone, things should be more reactive, which in most cases should be better for players in a fighting game - but since there are issues that were revealed upon the removal of timesnap, it's those problems causing the problems and not necessarily timesnap removal - and we're working on addressing those.

brashtralas
09-08-2017, 04:27 AM
Well, I just fought an orochi that would attack, I'd see the indicator and react instantly, but I was already hit almost simultaneously with the indicator. it stuck me as odd, since I was demolishing their whole team, but I couldn't even block him, let alone parry.

I see it pretty often with pk and shinobi, as well.

Then I suddenly have some matches where I can consistently parry them all.

Who knows?

kweassa1
09-08-2017, 08:17 AM
IMO, it's the boogieman.

People love to fault it. I doubt any of them really understand what it does.

That_guy44
09-08-2017, 08:24 AM
IMO, it's the boogieman.

People love to fault it. I doubt any of them really understand what it does.

I understand one day my gameplay is fine. The next day I download a patch and struggle to block attacks I parried the day before.

Camemberto
09-08-2017, 08:32 AM
Now with it gone, things should be more reactive, which in most cases should be better for players in a fighting game - but since there are issues that were revealed upon the removal of timesnap, it's those problems causing the problems and not necessarily timesnap removal - and we're working on addressing those.

You could have removed it in another PTR. Of course there were going to be other issues. But resolving these is what the PTR is for, not the live version. There was nothing wrong with how it was before. If it ain't broke ...

I'd suggest putting time-snap back in and opening another PTR with it being removed in order to fix the current issues.

Camemberto
09-08-2017, 08:49 AM
UbiNoty, would have decreasing the time snap interval to say 50ms helped? As I understand, it would have made the game more responsive overall, but would it have been too little to properly buffer the connection latency from two opponents? Maybe tinkering with the values instead of just outright removing it would have worked as well... Or, you know, testing... publicly...

Knight_Raime
09-08-2017, 08:57 AM
Accidentally voted no. Meant to type vote yes.

As I understood things time snap existed to try and keep things consistent between players by having a forced delay on every action.
The point of removing this I think was to make it so actions felt more accurate because people would make claims that they input something but it didn't happen. Like guard switching.

The problem though is that by removing this "gate" it varies up what you're dealing with from connection to connection. I could fight and react to Orochi top light rather consistently and know when I messed up on my input. Now I am running into situations more and more often where I know my guard was in the right direction. But I reacted at the wrong time because the connection between me and the person i'm sparring is different.

I don't honestly know of any benefits that have come from this. I can't really say anything feels smoother. The only example that comes to my head that "might" be a positive to the removal is me being able to dodge out of valks sweep if she's only hit one light. I used to almost never been able to deal with that. Of course I can also simply explain that by saying I became a better player or switching to a fast response time monitor for a few hours helped me understand timing better.

I don't know how they can fix this either. I think they mentioned making the indicators more accurate? I don't see how you can make indicators compensate for connection. The only solution I can see here is by going back to old time snap. Or add some other kind of buffering system. Which wouldn't that defeat the purpose of removing time snap to begin with?

Overall the the thing that frustrates me the most since the removal is now i'm second guessing my skills/reactions. When prior to this I with a clear head could know when I messed up or if the match was clearly having problems. The fact that that line is blurred now is just bad.

Knight_Raime
09-08-2017, 09:01 AM
IMO, it's the boogieman.

People love to fault it. I doubt any of them really understand what it does.

It's rather easy to scape goat it yes. But that doesn't mean the input people are giving should be discarded because some people might just be afraid to admit they messed up.
And we don't need to have a complete grasp on what time snap did.

there is proof out there in video form showing attacks being faster since the removal. And that it's happened both when fighting someone near you and someone when fighting away. It's a fact that the stuff varies now. So you can't really say that EVERYONE claiming time snap removal as a problem is bad and doesn't wana admit it.

Oupyz
09-08-2017, 09:18 AM
Accidentally voted no. Meant to type vote yes.

As I understood things time snap existed to try and keep things consistent between players by having a forced delay on every action.
The point of removing this I think was to make it so actions felt more accurate because people would make claims that they input something but it didn't happen. Like guard switching.

The problem though is that by removing this "gate" it varies up what you're dealing with from connection to connection. I could fight and react to Orochi top light rather consistently and know when I messed up on my input. Now I am running into situations more and more often where I know my guard was in the right direction. But I reacted at the wrong time because the connection between me and the person i'm sparring is different.

I don't honestly know of any benefits that have come from this. I can't really say anything feels smoother. The only example that comes to my head that "might" be a positive to the removal is me being able to dodge out of valks sweep if she's only hit one light. I used to almost never been able to deal with that. Of course I can also simply explain that by saying I became a better player or switching to a fast response time monitor for a few hours helped me understand timing better.

I don't know how they can fix this either. I think they mentioned making the indicators more accurate? I don't see how you can make indicators compensate for connection. The only solution I can see here is by going back to old time snap. Or add some other kind of buffering system. Which wouldn't that defeat the purpose of removing time snap to begin with?

Overall the the thing that frustrates me the most since the removal is now i'm second guessing my skills/reactions. When prior to this I with a clear head could know when I messed up or if the match was clearly having problems. The fact that that line is blurred now is just bad.

I Accidentally Voted No As Well.

but i feel the same man , i play on a 165hz asus rog monitor with capped frame rate @160 and the pk and cent attacks barely showing any indicator before u get hit

on a side note i do live in the middle-east with a bad internet comparing to europe but man i rarely had any trouble dealing with pk or cent , now it's impossible to parry them the attack indicators are barely showing before they hit you .......

Ubinoty Just a small note , if things ain't broken don't try to fix it ....... logic part of life .... with the removal of time snap you ruined the whole game for many of us

so like many people said , bring the timesnap back , and try things on ptr first and see how it works

Knight_Raime
09-08-2017, 09:29 AM
I Accidentally Voted No As Well.

but i feel the same man , i play on a 165hz asus rog monitor with capped frame rate @160 and the pk and cent attacks barely showing any indicator before u get hit

on a side note i do live in the middle-east with a bad internet comparing to europe but man i rarely had any trouble dealing with pk or cent , now it's impossible to parry them the attack indicators are barely showing before they hit you .......

Ubinoty Just a small note , if things ain't broken don't try to fix it ....... logic part of life .... with the removal of time snap you ruined the whole game for many of us

so like many people said , bring the timesnap back , and try things on ptr first and see how it works

I think it's not coming back because of the work it took to remove. I'm not really expecting it to come back. But I do hope they manage to find a magical fix for this.

Camemberto
09-08-2017, 09:50 AM
Watch out, what you vote for guys, seriously :D
Granted, the fact that "Yes" is red, while "No" is blue, does add to the confusion, but I can't change that unfortunately :D

I really really wish, they put it back in.
And for future reference: Test your damn stuff before slapping it on the game. Or removing it for that matter.

Antonioj26
09-08-2017, 04:50 PM
oh, alright well on paper it makes the game better so i vote it's good.

It's far from good. Here's a short video showing some of the problems with IRS removal https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h_uNd1GMjNs

Antonioj26
09-08-2017, 05:31 PM
the first one was complete BS, i agree.

the second one he didn't block before he hit so that's fine.

the third one he blocked so idk wtf he's complaining about.

the fourth one it looks like he tried to GB so that's his fault.

the fifth one he blocked again so i still don't see why he's complaining.

the sixth one he was hit before his hit landed, so again that's on him.

i stopped after the first death because it's nothing it looks the same as the game with it.

So attacks being inconsistent and making them 130ms faster than they are suppose to be is okay?

Haplo_Bane
09-08-2017, 05:46 PM
timesnap off= inconsistency. No ifs No buts No coconuts. Why does everyone keep thinking this game will improve until Feb 2018 ??? It won't. Simples.

That_guy44
09-08-2017, 07:46 PM
if it's only noticeable in slow mo then is it really an issue?

You are completely missing the point. They either need to slow attacks down or put timesnap back in. 400 ms is stupid fast. And that's when the attack lands! If you want to parry, you better be superman or clairvoyant and predict the future. The zones are even faster. The real kicker is that the speed now varies now as well. You can play back to back matches against new players using the same character and the difference can be up to ~100 ms. At that point you can't even trust your parry timing. One match you're catching lights and the next you're getting shredded unable to figure out why. Players that shouldn't have a chance are getting by with light spam now because of this.

Antonioj26
09-08-2017, 08:08 PM
if it's only noticeable in slow mo then is it really an issue?

But it's not only noticeable in slow mo. You know how you have trouble dodging valks 600ms sweep? Well now that sweep is as fast as pks lights. Know how you have trouble dodging LBs 1000ms long arm? Well now it's 900ms.

UbiNoty
09-09-2017, 12:33 AM
We are aware of all the concerns you've raised with its removal and we'll do our best to address them however we can, whatever that may be. Believe me, this is a major point of issue that we've definitely made sure the devs are kept up to date on with all your feedback, and they're on it.

Camemberto
09-12-2017, 07:14 AM
We are aware of all the concerns you've raised with its removal and we'll do our best to address them however we can, whatever that may be. Believe me, this is a major point of issue that we've definitely made sure the devs are kept up to date on with all your feedback, and they're on it.

I just don't understand why you would introduce such a huge change into the live game, without the slightest bit of testing first? How hard can it be really?

Also you haven't answered my question about reducing the time snap interval to 50ms yet.

Jab_Jab_Wins
09-12-2017, 11:07 AM
Imho timesnap made the gameplay feel more consistent in every aspect, I really wish they took timesnap back.

Antonioj26
09-12-2017, 03:37 PM
so it's just as broken as it was before, doesn't seem significant to me.

the only thing that seems significant right now i the amount of cent mains in ranked, which i started playing recently because that Warden ornament is great.

but so is lawbringer's and peacekeeper's, which i'm lacking a good ornament for atm.

Lol, you are just so ridiculous. What you write makes so little sense, you're the reason why "git gud" is a saying and why there's such a huge rift between casual players and people at higher levels of play.

Antonioj26
09-12-2017, 05:30 PM
oh, i forgot you're the embodiment of every toxic ranked player, probably why i still have you blocked tbh.

Sorry but someone who calls valks sweep or lawbringers long arm broken has no place in correcting the problems with this game. Let me make it even simpler for you since you don't seem to notice the significance of 100ms.

It's the difference between a shugo light and a pk light. Its also the difference between wardens top light and his side light. Now tell me, are those not significantly different?

Mythic MK II
09-12-2017, 08:02 PM
Ever since the removal of time snap I get GB'd, insta light hit by fast characters and generally lose matches over BS more often than before the removal. It should have stayed UNTIL servers are out. not before and **** everything up...

nyrue
09-18-2017, 11:39 AM
I cant play this game until they fix this, it took me a while too fully understand what time snaps are, and I must say they should never have removed it in the first place

Devils-_-legacy
09-18-2017, 01:37 PM
The only thing Ive noticed is parry has become an annoyance as a assassin

Ghost_SFOD
09-20-2017, 04:51 AM
I just don't understand why you would introduce such a huge change into the live game, without the slightest bit of testing first? How hard can it be really?

Also you haven't answered my question about reducing the time snap interval to 50ms yet.

It seems trend after trend that Ubisoft is too stupid to make their players happy. Especially when they tell them what to do. Blows my mind.