PDA

View Full Version : Steam engines and wind direction



stylisticsagi
09-04-2017, 03:18 PM
Okay when you think of the year 1800 i rapidly think of steam engines and steam ships.

One thing anno games (almost) never had was effects of the wind.
It would be cool to start with (big) sailships who are under a high influence on wind speed and direction.
This would make trading routes less reliable on first sight and would also create more naval military strategies possible.
Since it is the year 1800 you will be able at some point to build steam powered ships wich are unaffected by the wind.
Steam ships obviously would run on coal, if they do not have any fuel they go very slow.
Sail ships who are in full favor of the wind would still be faster then steam ships but in most cases ships can't use the full use of the wind and then steam ships would be faster and as well have a higher storage capacity. It would also be nice to have steam sjips not being TO late into the game but more of a choice of wehter to build cheap sailing ships or expensive steam ships.

Another cool feature id'like to see returning from the very original anno 1602 would be to arm all of your ships with weapons yourself. This way you can build the most expensive warships earlier but not being able to arm them, and your lowest tier cargo ships could be givven some means to defend himself. The most missing option on this as well is that ships should be able to (auto) attack while moving.


When we are talking steam engines it would off course not end with steam ships alone.
Another thing wich would be great are factory upgrades.
For example a factory wich produces good X produces this at a 1.0 rate at maintenance 50 gold
if you would upgrade this factory it would produce at 3.0 rate with still 50 gold maintenacnce but would also require coal.
If you did not upgrade you can still build 3 factories for the same 3.0 ratio but you would pay 150 maintenance in total for the 3 factories
This would tempt player to no longer build the factories near the farms if that island has no coal production but rather transport the raw resources before making them into something else. Or have an extra supply route to make sure coals is present everywhere. More decisions = higher replayability

And whenever we think of steam engines we also think of steam trains. Whilst trains are something many people find very very additcivein games it is definitly worth checking this out, however i have absolutly no idea how you can fit trains good and balanced in an anno title.

BertProesmans
09-07-2017, 05:44 PM
I really like the distinction between sail ships and ships running on steam engines (and combined ships?).
Introducing the wind factor will already make trade-off decisions one-sided; I would argue a wave current (which is randomly laid out by the map seed) going through the map might be a factor to balance this out.
These currents flow in a single direction, so the player occupying land downstream is affected negatively. A possible implementation idea is to make the current randomly dynamic (it changes slowly, unrelated to player actions) or predictable dynamic (the impact you have on the climate of your island WILL affect the wave current and possibly the wind factor), which opens up different ways to play the game. Choosing an island to settle becomes a bit more complicated, which i find ok since earlier people would 'just' settle on the first island they find..

I think steam engines + negative wave current VS wind power + negative wind factor should somewhat balance each other out and provides a nice dynamic during the game. Steam ships worst case speed SHOULD always be higher than sail-ships because coal is needed (on the ship) to the steam ship move at full speed.
A player who picks early between steam or wind HAS to keep an eye on (+steer) the changing climate, but is rewarded by treasures (loosely defined) to be found on sea.
A player who focuses more on island development (and waits out for wind and current to stabilize) might get a bigger population lead because of not investing into ships, but missed out on sea treasures.

About 'steam ship carrying more than a sail ship' i disagree; i find the distinction between small-, medium- and big cargo good enough and there shouldn't be a cargo difference between each cargo tiered steam- and sail ship.

EDIT: There is another topic discussing weather (through seasons) for which the described wind and wave current might be a resulting effect. http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1739728-Dynamic-Weather-and-Season-Cycles-along-with-more-types-of-natural-disasters

AgmasGold
09-08-2017, 12:27 AM
For people that enjoy laying out their production efficiently and productively, having factors of randomness relating to wind would pose a problem. For me at least, it would annoy me no-end if my well-planned and constructed production or power complex suddenly stopped working due to the wind. Sure, it more closely resembles real-life, but for those people that want the perfect ratio and the perfect layout, it would be a negative addition.

stylisticsagi
09-09-2017, 02:14 PM
Then you agmasgold would be one who uses steam ships eventough the require coal and are more expensive. Te fact that you just made was an exacpt problem for so long since you could never predict when a ship will arrive. p.s. for this reason i also suggested to make stema ships not late game but more a choice between cheap and expensive.

BertProesemans the balancing is something i believe the anno dev's take very high in regard, just throwing up an idea they could use.

AgmasGold
09-09-2017, 02:23 PM
Thats a good point, trading high-cost, low-maintenance, low-reward, stable production for low-cost, high-maintenance, high-reward, unstable production.

stylisticsagi
09-10-2017, 10:29 AM
It would be also nice to have a high ship custimisation with items like you had in anno 1404.
It would be even better if you could produce those items yourself like you could a few in 2070. in 1404 honour was in the beginning to valuable to spend on items.

p.s. i'm sorry for my typing in my previous post, damn...

AgmasGold
09-10-2017, 10:51 AM
I think it would be nice to have some powerful tems in the game that are incredibly rare or difficult to get. Things like the Scholars' Abacus, and the Master Builders from Anno 1404.

iruet
09-10-2017, 02:24 PM
I like this idea

stylisticsagi
09-14-2017, 07:48 AM
And what do you guys think about the upgrading factories or farms with steam engines?

stylisticsagi
11-24-2017, 10:25 AM
Looks like wind is comming!!
https://www.anno-union.com/en/deblog-the-art-of-war-ii/

citizensfor
11-26-2017, 12:32 AM
I like the fact that they have wind.

It would also be great to see large rainstorms, squallls etc. maybe even snowstorms move across the map, which could slow down/disrupt traffic (but not sink ships that would be annoying), perhaps even seasons could be incorporated, altitudes being cooler etc, which would have an effect on farming outputs (might go too far).

Mainly, it would be fun to have weather of some sort, certain crops grown at certain altitudes (coffee etc at higher altitudes, sugar cane in marshes, pastureland in plains areas etc.) with actual storms, which have an effect on especially wind-based ships, but would mainly be a visual thing.

citizensfor
11-26-2017, 12:37 AM
Perhaps another aspect that these weather effects could have on gameplay would be the building of a protected port using geography and breakwaters.

As it is, there is no reason to build a "safe" port, that is protected from high swells etc., like any real good port on Earth would be. The major ports of the world are relatively calm due to breakwaters and natural boundaries around them. That's one main reason that ports are built in large bays.

If the player could be rewarded by a higher port efficiency when a port is built in a calmer area of water (a map overlay could show the player using a color map of where the water is calm) building natural barriers / breakwaters around a port, or using a geographically calm natural bay area would reward players for avoiding unprotected areas of water, where, when storms happen, shipping might be reduced.

stylisticsagi
11-26-2017, 11:19 AM
I love your idea about storms.
They go perfectly in hand with the wind and tradings and battles could go awsome with them.
(p.s. not those stupid lightning storms who sets buildings on fire on places where you would never build a fire station...).
But a fertility increase on altitude is also a great idea, storms a bit less since it is to unpredictable.

As for the tidings it goes a bit to far. if they wanted to implement this they should have done so in 2070 that was more the flooded theme (p.s. tsunamis there where still awsome)

Ubi-O5
11-27-2017, 02:37 PM
Gotten pretty windy in here since i last checked in (Holidays, woo!).

Some cool questions and thoughts here. I'd love to see some of them as questions in our dedicated thread (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1759699-Your-questions-for-the-Anno-Team-about-Anno-1800) or on the Anno Union if you haven't already. We might be able to feature them then in a blog post.

Mr Felidae
12-30-2017, 06:15 AM
I like the idea of having both wind-powered ships and steam-powered ships in the game, especially with industrialisation kicking in. Logically I would say steam-powered ships are sluggish and with wind direction and wind speed not affecting them, while wind-powered ships can go really fast depending on the weather. Thus depending on whether you want reliable speed and security on trade routes or quick exploration and settling, will either require a slow but durable ship, or a fast but fragile one.

This brings to my attention the occurrence of storms at sea. It would be nice to have such storms that can impact structural integrity of ships moving through them.


It would be also nice to have a high ship custimisation with items like you had in anno 1404.
It would be even better if you could produce those items yourself like you could a few in 2070. in 1404 honour was in the beginning to valuable to spend on items.

p.s. i'm sorry for my typing in my previous post, damn...

I also would see this implemented. However, I feel there should be a clear difference between ship integrity and ship management. So there are items that enhance a ship and there are people that do so. People can be placed in a ship's slot at any given time, even on the open sea. They increase productivity onboard to a max of 10% for one or multiple features (speed, reloading time, firing distance, etc.).
On the other hand, items cannot be placed in a ship's slot. One cannot simply 'change' the hull out on the open sea. This involves manufacturing such feature that can provide a boost up to 20% to certain features (structural integrity, weapon type and firepower, steam engine type or type of sails).
Therefore I think a nice addition would be to place such items in one or multiple slots in the shipyard (depending on whether it is a small or large shipyard) to augment a ship's blueprint. Let's say a strengthened hull or a better type of sails. Doing so automatically provides each ship built at that shipyard with that augmented feature. One can easily switch items at the slots, just as one would do at the warehouse, depending on the items one has in the warehouse on the island with that shipyard and the current situation (war, trade, exploration, etc.). Keeping this in mind a shipyard should also be able to alter existing ships. Whenever a ship is within range of the shipyard it can upgrade a feature depending on what is placed in the slot of the shipyard.
I feel such immersion of realism allows for more realism and implement tactical decision-making on the spot, while it doesn't kill gameplay or slow player progression.

stylisticsagi
12-30-2017, 06:29 PM
i like those ideas!