PDA

View Full Version : Centurion is broken (in 1vs1 tournament mode)



AzureSky.
09-03-2017, 12:05 AM
Hello, this guy has gotten out of hands, with the new mode the maps are revamped in a way that makes centurion a far better pick than normal, since 75% of the matches have very closed spaces, you have a lot of chances to make some pretty nice long safe combos that (if they dont kill the enemy) they leave you with no stamina and 20% health in the best of cases.

Lets see what is the main problem right now:

His faster jab its the problem, it staggers you into a wall + it stuns you, then he can make another heavy to keep up the stun.
Decrease the faster punch hitbox and speed, its undodgeable most of the times with heavy characters, even if you dodge it he still tracks you and hits you (tested it a lot of times)
if you do this we can still have the current fast jab, if you dont decrease the speed, delete the wall stagger. Its too strong on this mode.


Also for 4vs4 modes, delete the "Cinematic" after he gets a charged heavy, Time is important on 4vs4 and can make the difference between winning vs someone and waiting until his team make the fight a 2vs1. Also i think the damage its too much, you can decide that second part but the cinematic needs to go, same damage but without cinematic.

Other than that he is good, his kick its very unsafe, but the problem is the fast jab and the charged jab + cinematic.

UbiNoty
09-03-2017, 12:55 AM
We've already made some moves towards his CC chaining so that it shoulnd't be quite as bad as before, but I'll bring it up as still a big issue in 1v1s. (and in the context of the new map spaces as well).

As for the cinematic, I'll bring that up as well once more to the team.

HeroOnslaught
09-11-2017, 08:53 AM
Man Oh Man am I tired of the constant problems with this game. It's one thing after another from servers to unbalanced/broken characters all the way to putting up a "Beta" feature in the fully released game. Centurion is ridiculous in the tournament 1v1 besides him not all characters have the ability to dodge Valkyrie's sweep making your "Beta" tournament mode a battle of who picks the right character and who decided to be Centurion. Oh Lets get on topic about the ranking system... so you're telling me I can win a fight and gain 4% towards my next rank but die to a horse **** centurion and lost 16%..yep sounds pretty fair. Don't mind the lingo but I'm kinda fed up with Ubisoft, I've been playing Ubisoft games since I can remember and overall it starting to feel like the company's performance on games is degrading on various points in various games.

Aarpian
09-11-2017, 09:04 AM
Let this be a lesson to you on listening to ****ty players and balancing accordingly - they could lose to Kensei played by a blind man and they'd still find a way to shift the blame from themselves onto the character their opponent was using.

Charmzzz
09-11-2017, 09:19 AM
Man Oh Man am I tired of the constant problems with this game. It's one thing after another from servers to unbalanced/broken characters all the way to putting up a "Beta" feature in the fully released game. Centurion is ridiculous in the tournament 1v1 besides him not all characters have the ability to dodge Valkyrie's sweep making your "Beta" tournament mode a battle of who picks the right character and who decided to be Centurion.

Every Character can dodge the Valk sweep. Dodge gives you invulnerability frames. Your timing is wrong if you dodge and get hit by the sweep, most people dodge too early.

DrinkinMehStella
09-11-2017, 09:25 AM
Being a cent main (rep13) I can say that against people who know how to counter and players who are high tier players makes me struggle a lot in 1v1, IF you can CGB then cent is not a threat, his small health pool means that if I make a mistake then I won't last long especially against raider, conq, WL.

I think conq, WL, PK and shinobi is broken in 1v1. I've faced against all of these in the finals but can't break them, conq and WL just turtle and is nearly impossible to break especially with their health pool. PK just spam lights and wait for you to attack then dodge attack, I faced a shinobi in the final who literally stayed so far away and only used ranged attacks, the moment I got close he would run away and just used ranged attacks, I can parry them sometimes but quite hard to and even when stumbled I was too far to get a free heavy.

S0Mi_xD
09-11-2017, 09:47 AM
Being a cent main (rep13) I can say that against people who know how to counter and players who are high tier players makes me struggle a lot in 1v1, IF you can CGB then cent is not a threat, his small health pool means that if I make a mistake then I won't last long especially against raider, conq, WL.

I think conq, WL, PK and shinobi is broken in 1v1. I've faced against all of these in the finals but can't break them, conq and WL just turtle and is nearly impossible to break especially with their health pool. PK just spam lights and wait for you to attack then dodge attack, I faced a shinobi in the final who literally stayed so far away and only used ranged attacks, the moment I got close he would run away and just used ranged attacks, I can parry them sometimes but quite hard to and even when stumbled I was too far to get a free heavy.

I find it abit weird to justify such a thing with the scentence "but as with this class i struggle against people who know how to counter the class/who are high lvl/tier player"
Sure you will struggle against those, because they know what they doing (like you say).

The difference is, take a look at other classes, it happens often, that they are struggle against average player, or good player who play abit more activly.

People always say "ah i struggel against good player with this class" than give me a class that does not struggle against any high lvl player and i can tell you this class is really broken.

Centurion is not broken, but his punish is insane - thats what people who know the problem complaining about.
And there have been some really good suggestions, how to balance this out.

Just an example:

I main Berserker, with him i put 200 % effort into a game against a good player - then i switch to Cent against the same player and my effort is around 50% because i am a Cent noob and still i ripped him apart because i did simple things i saw from Cent players.
Parry -> into wall -> punish hard
He is OOS lost nearly half of his life and after that i started to pressure him by spamming his fast heavies and softfeinted charged ones into GBs

Press Repeat

Sorry to say that but Centurions balance is BS, thats his problem - his power lies in his punish, and Ubi needs to put some of those power into his mixup game etc.

DrinkinMehStella
09-11-2017, 10:24 AM
I find it abit weird to justify such a thing with the scentence "but as with this class i struggle against people who know how to counter the class/who are high lvl/tier player"
Sure you will struggle against those, because they know what they doing (like you say).

The difference is, take a look at other classes, it happens often, that they are struggle against average player, or good player who play abit more activly.

People always say "ah i struggel against good player with this class" than give me a class that does not struggle against any high lvl player and i can tell you this class is really broken.

Centurion is not broken, but his punish is insane - thats what people who know the problem complaining about.
And there have been some really good suggestions, how to balance this out.

Just an example:

I main Berserker, with him i put 200 % effort into a game against a good player - then i switch to Cent against the same player and my effort is around 50% because i am a Cent noob and still i ripped him apart because i did simple things i saw from Cent players.
Parry -> into wall -> punish hard
He is OOS lost nearly half of his life and after that i started to pressure him by spamming his fast heavies and softfeinted charged ones into GBs

Press Repeat

Sorry to say that but Centurions balance is BS, thats his problem - his power lies in his punish, and Ubi needs to put some of those power into his mixup game etc.

I know what your saying, any hero can be hard to deal with if you don't know how to play against them, the only people who complain about him is the ones who can't counter him and that is the problem. His punish can be disastrous for anyone of the receiving end, and I agree that something needs to be done to tone down his punish game but then if you do that then in high level plays he will just become useless, I would quite happily see his heavies reduced in speed and his parry knee counter not guarantee a heavy. I would also be fine with them slowing down his wall splat combo so there is more chance to counter it and get out but in return just give him one more bar of health. I can use a wall to completely take an enemy from 100 - 0 in one stamina and one combo just by using a wall and a few delayed Gb to trick into dodging. so I agree he should be nerfed but like I said I struggle more against conq, WL, Pk, shinobi even when I'm using one of my other mains.

Charmzzz
09-11-2017, 10:40 AM
I know what your saying, any hero can be hard to deal with if you don't know how to play against them, the only people who complain about him is the ones who can't counter him and that is the problem.

One post before you said that "conq, WL, PK and shinobi is broken in 1v1". You see it yourself?

Cent still has the strongest parry punish of the whole hero roaster. He has good openers and mixups / soft feints as well. And you keep complaining about Conq and PK? Conq being super telegraphed with slow attacks and PK having no opener to crack turtles?

DrinkinMehStella
09-11-2017, 11:12 AM
One post before you said that "conq, WL, PK and shinobi is broken in 1v1". You see it yourself?

Cent still has the strongest parry punish of the whole hero roaster. He has good openers and mixups / soft feints as well. And you keep complaining about Conq and PK? Conq being super telegraphed with slow attacks and PK having no opener to crack turtles?

I also stated that cent needs to be nerfed, unlike others I won't defend my main till the end of the earth just because I use him, I never said he was fine and if you carried on reading I listed many changes they could make to him. conq is a turtle and that all people do, if you can't open up a turtle then what? I can dodge his bash all the time but all his does is counter bash your lights. His superior block means anyone who relies on heavies will not break him easily, you find it easy because your a PK main and you can just throw out lights and wait for him to attack and then dodge attack.

S0Mi_xD
09-11-2017, 11:35 AM
I know what your saying, any hero can be hard to deal with if you don't know how to play against them, the only people who complain about him is the ones who can't counter him and that is the problem. His punish can be disastrous for anyone of the receiving end, and I agree that something needs to be done to tone down his punish game but then if you do that then in high level plays he will just become useless, I would quite happily see his heavies reduced in speed and his parry knee counter not guarantee a heavy. I would also be fine with them slowing down his wall splat combo so there is more chance to counter it and get out but in return just give him one more bar of health. I can use a wall to completely take an enemy from 100 - 0 in one stamina and one combo just by using a wall and a few delayed Gb to trick into dodging. so I agree he should be nerfed but like I said I struggle more against conq, WL, Pk, shinobi even when I'm using one of my other mains.

Useless is a very strong word, you know. Just because he wouldn't be able to deal with in enemy in a instance (like every other hero), that doesn't means he will be trash.
People said about the Warlord pre-nerf - he will be useless after that - this is BS, warlord is still very strong, he only got some balance and 2 weakpoints (dodge recovery and no cgb on full block)
If Ubi applies the def meta patch, and most of it is done right. Then the complete gameplay will change, especially the high lvl gameplay.

Because currently player (especially high lvl player) rely on free dmg, and that is toxic for a game like For Honor(for honor was made in the concept of playing with mixups and chains not on combos like in traditional beat'em ups, but parry takes exactly those points away), parry is one of the biggest reason the def meta exists (a defensive mechanic that allows you to go full offense - that is ridiculous).

It isn't really about nerfing centurion, but more about balancing him out, like they did with warlord now.


One post before you said that "conq, WL, PK and shinobi is broken in 1v1". You see it yourself?

Cent still has the strongest parry punish of the whole hero roaster. He has good openers and mixups / soft feints as well. And you keep complaining about Conq and PK? Conq being super telegraphed with slow attacks and PK having no opener to crack turtles?

The problem about Conqu is, he is the perfect defense + counterattack, he can dodge into your light attacks to get a guaranteed shieldbash + light, normal blocks are always superior, so it is very dangerous to throw heavies, he gets a GB for just blocking them (thats worse than parry xD), but his offense is terrible - he really needs a rework, his concept does not work well.

Warlord was nerfed/balanced in a good way, he now has some weakpoints. But still he is very strong, because all tools he has are usefull.

PK is a special case, she is in a gray zone in this game - her speed keeps her up, and her concept isn't that bad, but she doesn't have much to offer.
- Light - Light
- Zone
- dodge attacks (if timed well)
- GB
- cancel into bleed lights

Her dmg is really high, her speed top, she has some good mixups(but not many), and the current turtle problem will be (hopefully) solved soon.
But still i think her kit needs a revamp, same goes for nearly evey hero, because they need to be adjusted to the balanced of the def meta, Ubi already stated that they working on character balance all over the board with def meta changes in mind, but that will take a while because this isn't a simple task.

Charmzzz
09-11-2017, 11:40 AM
Where did I say that beating a Conq is easy? It is not since a good player will block / parry all those lights you throw out. PK has a much easier time against other Characters with Reflex Guard. All others can just put their guard to their right and wait for a parry.

You really ignore the fact that my arguments for PK and yours for Cent are almost the same. You say "and I agree that something needs to be done to tone down his punish game but then if you do that then in high level plays he will just become useless, " and I say that when you nerf the speed of Zone and Lights on PK - she will become useless in high level play. Even MORE than Cent because she has no unblockable at all and alot less mixups than Cent.

But hey, I defend my main till the end. ;)

DrinkinMehStella
09-11-2017, 11:44 AM
Where did I say that beating a Conq is easy? It is not since a good player will block / parry all those lights you throw out. PK has a much easier time against other Characters with Reflex Guard. All others can just put their guard to their right and wait for a parry.

You really ignore the fact that my arguments for PK and yours for Cent are almost the same. You say "and I agree that something needs to be done to tone down his punish game but then if you do that then in high level plays he will just become useless, " and I say that when you nerf the speed of Zone and Lights on PK - she will become useless in high level play. Even MORE than Cent because she has no unblockable at all and alot less mixups than Cent.

But hey, I defend my main till the end. ;)

tbh with latency being a big problem on console its so hard to balance characters when they are being tested and balanced independently, I struggle against PK just to react to but apparently PC players don't find her an issue, I've decided to try out nobushi and I loving her, I get the best of both worlds now :)