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View Full Version : I don't understand why Cent gets the ability to soft feint heavies to GB.



Moondyne_MC
08-31-2017, 08:03 AM
This isn't a Centurion rage thread, I can generally deal with Cent's just fine, but what I don't understand is why he's allowed to soft feint any heavy in to a GB. I don't play Assassins much, but doesn't this mean that dodging a Cent could potentially equal death?

I only ask as I just played one who combined this move with constant wallsplats for the max damage combo (wallsplat > charged heavy > charged jab > pouncing heavy) and it was brutally effective.

DrinkinMehStella
08-31-2017, 08:54 AM
don't dodge get ready to CGB. Im a rep 12 cent and when I'm playing another cent I don't dodge any attacks apart from kick and jab I just take the damage from what ever he throws and prepare to CGB.

Knight_Raime
08-31-2017, 10:02 AM
pk can as well.
It's something I think every hero should be able to do.

ChampionRuby50g
08-31-2017, 10:10 AM
pk can as well.
It's something I think every hero should be able to do.

How can PK do it? I have had it done against me, but never done it myself. I don't think it is intended for PK.

Moondyne_MC
08-31-2017, 10:11 AM
Not really asking for ways of dealing with it, moreso just trying to understand the inherent question of balance. I've seen PK's do it, but they have to get a LLH combo going to do so, correct?

You've got me curious Raime, why do you think everyone should be able to do it? I'm not against soft feint GB's as such (especially once you can no longer get heavies off of them), but being able to soft feint any heavy, from neutral or combo, into a GB seems a bit much to me.

Alustar.
08-31-2017, 11:42 AM
How can PK do it? I have had it done against me, but never done it myself. I don't think it is intended for PK.

Dodge acts as a feint. Heavy-dodge-GB

CandleInTheDark
08-31-2017, 11:47 AM
How can PK do it? I have had it done against me, but never done it myself. I don't think it is intended for PK.

Their move set information, under hero specific, disagrees with you.

Heavy attack cancel
Press (guardbreak button, for me it is x) at the beginning of a heavy attack to cancel it into a guardbreak.

I will give you you don't see it often because even high level streamers seem to think light-light is high level play, but it takes more timing and skill to pull off and should have more reward than light-light in my opinion as a main who actually uses her kit. I saw one streamer that made me rage the other day, he couldn't even get the free light bleed after his dodge attacks.

Charmzzz
08-31-2017, 11:50 AM
Before Timesnap removal PK could do the Heavy Soft Feint GB after any Heavy. After removal of Timesnap PK can only do it on startup of a Heavy from neutral, not in any chain anymore.
It is confirmed as a bug see here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1721814-Peacekeeper-Soft-Feint-in-chained-Attacks-gone-since-timesnap-removal

ChampionRuby50g
08-31-2017, 12:04 PM
Their move set information, under hero specific, disagrees with you.

Heavy attack cancel
Press (guardbreak button, for me it is x) at the beginning of a heavy attack to cancel it into a guardbreak.

I will give you you don't see it often because even high level streamers seem to think light-light is high level play, but it takes more timing and skill to pull off and should have more reward than light-light in my opinion as a main who actually uses her kit. I saw one streamer that made me rage the other day, he couldn't even get the free light bleed after his dodge attacks.

Yeah, the few times I have seen it used have failed miserably, so never thought into it too much. Looks like I'm taking old PK back into the practice arena to master a new move then, if its under the hero specific moves. Although, I did do a quick google search on her moveset and came up with nothing that says PK can go into GB from Heavy startup, only the Heavy cancelled with Light.

http://i.imgur.com/PH69WV3.png

maybe when i get home from work my memory will prove to be the final enemy once again, and i'll see i was completely wrong as i turn my console on.

CandleInTheDark
08-31-2017, 12:13 PM
Yeah, the few times I have seen it used have failed miserably, so never thought into it too much. Looks like I'm taking old PK back into the practice arena to master a new move then, if its under the hero specific moves. Although, I did do a quick google search on her moveset and came up with nothing that says PK can go into GB from Heavy startup, only the Heavy cancelled with Light.

http://i.imgur.com/PH69WV3.png

maybe when i get home from work my memory will prove to be the final enemy once again, and i'll see i was completely wrong as i turn my console on.

Yeah I looked online a while ago,I suspect that was taken from something early on, since yeah there is nothing on it there.

It can come off fairly nicely if you have thrown a few shots into the block of someone turtling. A feint heavy peacekeeper can get some nice rewards if they are patient as a hard feint heavy can lead to a heavy on the other side if you have feinted a few times, I managed the heavy-heavy chain in a duel off of that, if the opponent knows you are letting heavies through and goes to parry the light cancel shuts that down and on the same note if you draw a dodge the gb softfeint is guaranteed. Most of my damage comes off of my own dodge game though, avoiding attacks getting dodge-deep gouge, though that is harder to pull off against someone determined to turtle.

ChampionRuby50g
08-31-2017, 12:27 PM
Yeah I looked online a while ago,I suspect that was taken from something early on, since yeah there is nothing on it there.

It can come off fairly nicely if you have thrown a few shots into the block of someone turtling. A feint heavy peacekeeper can get some nice rewards if they are patient as a hard feint heavy can lead to a heavy on the other side if you have feinted a few times, I managed the heavy-heavy chain in a duel off of that, if the opponent knows you are letting heavies through and goes to parry the light cancel shuts that down and on the same note if you draw a dodge the gb softfeint is guaranteed. Most of my damage comes off of my own dodge game though, avoiding attacks getting dodge-deep gouge, though that is harder to pull off against someone determined to turtle.

Legendary, thanks for the tips. That image been old certainly explains a few things.

Tyrjo
08-31-2017, 01:11 PM
Soft feint into GB is already part of why Centurion is OP.

If guard break after parry goes, the Centurions soft feint into GB will be an indirect buff to him, since other heroes will have a harder time getting GBs but Centurion can get them more easy. This will skew his OPness even more since his punish for a GB if there is a wall close by (which it always is) is so hard.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 01:26 PM
Soft feint into GB is already part of why Centurion is OP.

If guard break after parry goes, the Centurions soft feint into GB will be an indirect buff to him, since other heroes will have a harder time getting GBs but Centurion can get them more easy. This will skew his OPness even more since his punish for a GB if there is a wall close by (which it always is) is so hard.

Or you can just stop trying to dodge the heavy and block it, then you'll have no problems cgbing.

Tyrjo
08-31-2017, 02:04 PM
Or you can just stop trying to dodge the heavy and block it, then you'll have no problems cgbing.

I never dodge any thing else than kick or charged punch against Centurion. It's suicide to dodge anything else.

My point was that Centurion have an easier time to GB than the rest of the cast because of his soft feint. He also has an easier time to GB than the "no stuns heroes" due to stuns leaving you without your UI.

If GB after parry goes, the heroes that relies on GB after parry will be debuffed. Not only that, Centurions can fall back on their parry counter.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 02:24 PM
I never dodge any thing else than kick or charged punch against Centurion. It's suicide to dodge anything else.

My point was that Centurion have an easier time to GB than the rest of the cast because of his soft feint. He also has an easier time to GB than the "no stuns heroes" due to stuns leaving you without your UI.

If GB after parry goes, the heroes that relies on GB after parry will be debuffed. Not only that, Centurions can fall back on their parry counter.

Against bad players who attempt to dodge the heavy instead of blocking it, sure.

Aarpian
08-31-2017, 04:21 PM
pk can as well.
It's something I think every hero should be able to do.

Fully agree.

Moondyne_MC
08-31-2017, 11:10 PM
Against bad players who attempt to dodge the heavy instead of blocking it, sure.

What about Assassins though? They're supposed to dodge over blocking. It also makes it unsafe to attempt parries on players that utilize it. When someone hard feints me successfully and baits a parry or GB, I feel impressed that they managed to play me that well. Soft feinting just feels like easy mode, I know it's only 1 button press and a few ms difference, but it does feel like they're getting as much reward for less effort.

Still curious why Raime and Aarpian are keen on all heroes having this ability? What's wrong with hard feinting to GB? It's easier to read sure, but that just means you can't spam it willy nilly.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 11:16 PM
What about Assassins though? They're supposed to dodge over blocking. It also makes it unsafe to attempt parries on players that utilize it. When someone hard feints me successfully and baits a parry or GB, I feel impressed that they managed to play me that well. Soft feinting just feels like easy mode, I know it's only 1 button press and a few ms difference, but it does feel like they're getting as much reward for less effort.

Still curious why Raime and Aarpian are keen on all heroes having this ability? What's wrong with hard feinting to GB? It's easier to read sure, but that just means you can't spam it willy nilly.

Who told you they are supposed to dodge over block? I'm sorry friend but that's just not true, dodging still has to be done at the right time and can't be done all "Willy nilly." It would be great if everyone can softfeint, creates more mixup potential. It also eliminates and sort of advantage 2 characters had over the rest of the cast. At a skill point hard feinting into gb won't trick anyone, they know the appropriate times to dodge and since it's so slow it's easily cgb.

Moondyne_MC
08-31-2017, 11:38 PM
I'm not saying Assassins should always dodge and never block, I don't even play Assassins tbh. But dodging is inherently built in to their kit, they have deflects, dodge attacks, squishy health and reflex guard so it's kind of implied they're supposed to dodge moreso than other characters.

I agree that a certain point hard feint to GB doesn't work all too often, but that's moreso a problem of the turtle meta imo. Like I said, I'm not against soft feinting to GB as such, but you should have to work for it imo.

I dunno, maybe I'm just too attached to parries, feels damn good getting one off, and a good back and forth with lots of parries on both ends is my idea of a perfect match. Doubtful matches will play out like that anymore if everyone's soft feinting every Heavy to GB. That's how I feel anyway.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 11:48 PM
I'm not saying Assassins should always dodge and never block, I don't even play Assassins tbh. But dodging is inherently built in to their kit, they have deflects, dodge attacks, squishy health and reflex guard so it's kind of implied they're supposed to dodge moreso than other characters.

I agree that a certain point hard feint to GB doesn't work all too often, but that's moreso a problem of the turtle meta imo. Like I said, I'm not against soft feinting to GB as such, but you should have to work for it imo.

I dunno, maybe I'm just too attached to parries, feels damn good getting one off, and a good back and forth with lots of parries on both ends is my idea of a perfect match. Doubtful matches will play out like that anymore if everyone's soft feinting every Heavy to GB. That's how I feel anyway.

Well the assassins can avoid his softfeint gb too by dodge attacking so they do have options. I get what you mean about the parries, but with the other changes to gb on startup that won't work. The gb has to land in the first 100ms of the attack and that's just not going to happen aside from dumb luck on occasion.