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e2michaelb
03-12-2004, 07:33 PM
I am a newbie from Falcon 4.0 country with a bunch of questions. (1)What are the rules for locking and unlocking the tail wheel? (2)Is it possible to begin a Quick Mission from take-off? (3)I have really been spoiled by ATC directions and the forward placement of the F-16 cockpit. How in the world does one visually acquire landing strips in this sim? I usually end up swinging all over the sky until I stumble across one by dumb luck (when I don't fly into the ground because I am too low and slow). [p.s.-I have only had IL2:FB for 2 weeks, but I am already becoming obsessed with it. The graphics and flight realism are too, too much]

e2michaelb
03-12-2004, 07:33 PM
I am a newbie from Falcon 4.0 country with a bunch of questions. (1)What are the rules for locking and unlocking the tail wheel? (2)Is it possible to begin a Quick Mission from take-off? (3)I have really been spoiled by ATC directions and the forward placement of the F-16 cockpit. How in the world does one visually acquire landing strips in this sim? I usually end up swinging all over the sky until I stumble across one by dumb luck (when I don't fly into the ground because I am too low and slow). [p.s.-I have only had IL2:FB for 2 weeks, but I am already becoming obsessed with it. The graphics and flight realism are too, too much]

03-12-2004, 09:02 PM
(1) the tailwheel usually doen't need to be locked unless you're taxiing with a crosswind. Leave it free castering and you'll be just fine. Be advised, however, that tailwheel steering is not implemented in this sim. The wheel's either locked or free castering. You have to steer via differential braking.

(2) Unfortunately, no quick missions from the ground. If you're feeling up to it, check out the full mission builder (FMB). You can build any mission imaginable and once you get up over the hump in the FMB learning curve it takes no time to whip up quick QMB-like missions with the FMB.

(2) As an F-16 jock, you're probably quite familiar with a standard overhead approach, right? You can land WW2 warbirds the same way. Break over the numbers on the far end of the runway and dirty up on your downwind leg. Then do not square off your base leg but instead fly a big round curved approach all the way in to touchdown. If the engine turns left, fly a lefthand pattern and vice-versa, so that you're not fighting the torque. With 10-15 degrees of bank and a gradual curved approach you can see the runway until the last minute... then level off and flare over the numbers and you should be able to feel your way down by looking at visual cues to either side. One other thing, don't drop full landing flaps until you are commited to landing. The "takeoff" setting is plenty until you are certain the landing is going to be good. Otherwise you'll be very slow and precarious if you need to go around. Giving full power to go around when you're hanging on the edge of a stall with full flaps can flip you over (although torque is rather tame in this sim).

FI-Aflak
03-12-2004, 09:14 PM
if you think visibility is bad now, wait until you try to land a bird with a quart of oil of the windsheild, a bullet in your gunsight, your climb meter, alitimeter, and spedometer nothing but holes, a bullet in your arm, and a good square meter of holes in one of your wings. In a crosswind. In a thunderstorm.

There are few things more fun than that, and even fewer thing that leave you with the same "wipe sweaty palms on pants" feeling of satisfaction if you do it correctly.

I think I'm spoiled by FB.

Gyre1
03-12-2004, 09:23 PM
Tailwheel lock is useful at takeoff. Go into your "controls" section in the sim to check what the comand is for tailwheel lock. I've got it as Ctrl T. Works well for me.

Gyre

3ghz Northwood on a gig of fast rambus stuff. Mitsu 930sb and 9700pro. Saitek x36usb, WinXP, TBSC sound, and a partridge in a pear tree.

p1ngu666
03-12-2004, 09:30 PM
u can ease yourself down by raising flaps, i do this on touchdown to avoid boucning

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

SithSpeeder
03-12-2004, 09:43 PM
Cosmo--

"You have to steer via differential braking" is not modelled in this sim, either. This is a minor gripe and one of the few that I have with IL2:FB. Brakes for both wheels are ON or OFF together unless I'm totally missing something (like when I try to shoot something http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ).

To steer when on the ground, judicious use of the brakes, rudder, and throttle are the way to go, and practicing how fast you can make turns while taxiing. On a close in carriage like the spit or the 109s, turning hard is not an option. For a wide stance aircraft like a P51, you can turn harder/faster.

Back to the poster's questions:
1. I never lock the tail wheel
2. No (see cosmo's post)
3. Learn to use the Delete-End-PageDn keys (or have them mapped to your stick for easy access) as well as get used to looking out at 45 and 90 degrees from your cockpit (either hat switch, mouse, or TrackIR2 if you have the $$$). You can then scan across the horizon and when you see something remotely resembling an airfield, zoom in and look. You have to do lots of gradual banking and looking anyway to check your six, just do it forward. Also, use the map if you let yourself. That's the easiest way to find the bases.

Welcome to the Prop Addicts (not-) Anonymous!

* _54th_Speeder *

*

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Bearcat99
03-12-2004, 10:21 PM
I rarely lock my tail wheel.
I find that differential braking though not modeled can be simulated by hitting the brakes when you use full rudder in whatever direction you want to turn. I can do doughnuts in the dirt.
As far as the take off thing... you should download the UQMG ASAP. Basically wht it is is a tool that gives you QMB ease of use with FMB power. It is an indispensible tool IMO for anyone who flies in FB and wants to take more control over how they fly. The FMB though a little intimidating at first is not as hard as it may seem. Try to get on some kind of voicre com with someone who knows how to use it and have them talk you through it. Thats how I learned. You can get the UQMG from the link in my sig. I also suggest you go through the Sturmovik Essentials thread at the top of this forum.

Landing. Just practice. You will get the hang of it. I like to look at the map I am flying in before I take off. I find that in FR servers or offline in FR settings, by looking at the map every few minutes I can keep track of where I am better.

Welcome aboard.

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UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

03-12-2004, 11:25 PM
SithSpeeder - brakes are proportioned according to the position of the rudder pedals.

If you keep the pedals centered when applying the brakes, the braking force will be even.

If you kick the right pedal all the way, 100% of the braking force goes to the right main wheel, etc... maybe it's no apparent to folks without twist sticks and/or pedals. They're missing out on a very cool feature of this sim http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Russian and British fighters did had hand brakes, not toe brakes. The sim accurately models Russian/British style where the rudder pedals themselves control proportioning, while the brake lever itself is squeezed by hand. German and US planes with the more familiar toe brake system have to suffer through a minor inaccuracy, but it's not the end of the world.

SithSpeeder
03-13-2004, 01:53 AM
Cosmo--

I think we're both kinda right. I'm just being a jerk on semantics (re: differential braking). So to quote Tully in a Febuary 13, 2004 post:

"CH or Simped, get the USB versions rather than the gameport.

Differential toe brakes aren't (directly) supported because the sim uses the UK/Russian braking mode. In aircraft of those nations, the common method was to have a brake lever on the control column (you can see it move when you apply brakes on Russian a/c in the game) with left/right balance controlled by the rudder pedals." (see http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=464107642 )

The bottom line is what you said, though. Those who do not have rudder pedals are missing out http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also, apparently the sensitivity is tweakable? I'll have to try that, as my left rudder pedal seems to have a better effect on quick turning on the ground (whether rudder left or right).

* _54th_Speeder *

http://members.cox.net/~ijhutch/_images/400x200sig.jpg

AirBot
03-13-2004, 02:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I find that differential braking though not modeled can be simulated by hitting the brakes when you use full rudder in whatever direction you want to turn.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's how differential braking is modeled... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

e2michaelb
03-13-2004, 03:16 PM
My thanks to all for your help. BTW,could someone translate "UQMG", "QMB" and "FMB"? They are not yet in my vocabulary. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

NimbusPlus
03-13-2004, 05:23 PM
I believe that's Quick Mission Builder; Full Mission Builder;
and I have no clear idea what UQMG stands for...

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/julienag/il2_Z_SIG.jpg

Frsotfang
03-13-2004, 05:39 PM
Ultra-Quick Mission Generator? Just a guess heheh

UncleVanya2001
03-13-2004, 06:07 PM
UBER Quick Mission Generator, available from Mudmovers (if they're still in business--haven't been able to access the sight in almost a week) & Uber-Demon's website (At least I THINK it's called Uber-Demon--might be Daemon.)

Also, lock the tailwheel for take-offs & leave it that way until I land. Then unlock it for taxiing. (Taxiing in a tailwheel is done making S-turns so you can see what's in front of you--so you want to keep your speed down.)

You can ask Ground Control for a heading to fly to find your base & in some planes (with an early version of the NDB, I'm thinking) the direction back to base will be shown on the ADF. (I believe it shows waypoints too, but have never used it for this so I wouldn't know for sure. I just look at my map & my compass & when in particularly poor weather fly the heading given to me by ground control.)

P1ngu: "Ease yourself down by raising flaps?!?!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif That's a good way to get yerself killed, hoss! Wouldn't recommend doing that in a real aircraft; flaps increase lift, lowering stall speed. If you raise the flaps while landing, you risk stalling the aircraft & crashing. Don't know if you'd bounce, but I'm thinking at least a little bit! (At least all the little pieces!) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

SithSpeeder
03-13-2004, 11:57 PM
UncleV--

I *think* what P1ngu means is that the proper way to land is to come in with flaps deployed and as soon as you touch down, you should retract flaps (pull them up). So that while you are in the air your flaps are out giving you greater controllability and slowing you down for landing, but as soon as you hit the ground, you retract them because you don't want lift anymore (you don't want to bounce back up in the air), you want your wheels and hence your brakes to be at their maximum effectiveness by pushing on the ground as much as possible.

I asked a friend of mine who is a cessna pilot about proper flap deployment during landing and that is how he was taught to do it in real life (and why).

YMMV.

* _54th_Speeder *

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ELEM
03-14-2004, 03:22 AM
Why do so many people here keep saying that differential brakeing is NOT modeled? It IS, and I use it all the time. Some very tight turning can be done using this method.

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

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03-14-2004, 03:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ELEM:
Why do so many people here keep saying that differential brakeing is NOT modeled? It IS, and I use it all the time. Some very tight turning can be done using this method.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, differential braking is modelled in this sim. I don't know why people don't realize it either.

Probably because people are expecting toe brakes like on German and US planes.

British and Russian planes have a single hand controlled brake lever. The position of the rudder pedals proportions braking to the left and right main wheels. It's just a different style of control.

UncleVanya2001
03-15-2004, 10:46 AM
SithSpeeder,

I'm a real-world Cessna pilot myself. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And, except for short-field landings, I was taught to leave the flaps down until clear of the runway & going through the After Landing Checklist. (The idea being, fewer tasks occupying your attention, the better.)

Short-field landings, though, are done pretty much how you described.

Bouncing on landing is a result of: a. Flaring to late & pranging into the runway. b. Flaring to early & stalling ABOVE the runway.

BALLOONING though, is a result of carrying too much airspeed into the landing & jerking back to forcefully on the yoke. (I did that alot as a student. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif)

Ideally, you should run out of up-elevator as just as your wheels touch down.

UV

BlindHuck
03-15-2004, 11:21 AM
RL pilot here, also. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Lots of techniques being used "outside" concerning flaps. Do you leave flaps down after touchdown for maximum aero braking? Maybe, if you full stalled on (with appropriate tail strike) and pitched nose down to reduce lift(not soft field). Or, maybe, you OWN the brakes and don't want to change them yet again. Most hard fields were built for warbirds so sometimes you have to get up to flying speed to reach next turn off, anyway. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif BTW, haven't been able to groundloop anything yet. I won't feel I've achieved full and complete immersion until I'm climbing out of a groundlooped plane after a mission. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'm at Napa airport if anyone wants to be a witness.

"I race full real exclusively in IL2:The Forgotten Battles." - Mark Donohue

BlindHuck
03-15-2004, 11:41 AM
I'm a RL pilot also. I sometimes would drag in (taught never to rely on power to get me to runway, old school) on numbers, tailstrike/stall, push nose on (leave flaps down for aero braking), and LAND ON BRAKES HARD. Full stop in 8 or 9 feet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif(felt like). For taildragger, sometimes would blitz plane on at stall+50% for SMOOOOOOTH touchdown - and quick arrival at distant turnoff. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

When you own a plane, though . . . well . . . my brakes and tires seem to last a lot longer now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Also - I won't feel I've achieved full immersion until I find myself climbing out of a groundlooped plane after a mission. Unless you've flown taildraggers, you just don't quite understand the little bit of "realism" you're missing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ("Groundloop" option in settings?)

"I race full real exclusively in IL2:The Forgotten Battles." - Mark Donohue

BlindHuck
03-15-2004, 11:46 AM
Didn't think first post made it . . .

"I race full real exclusively in IL2:The Forgotten Battles." - Mark Donohue

SithSpeeder
03-15-2004, 12:21 PM
OK--

So you guys (in RL) land with flaps deployed and leave them there (typically). I noticed that the AI in this game pretty much do the same as well. In the last month, I have been trying the approach my friend suggested (RL) which was to retract the flaps on touchdown and it seems to work for me.

So now, the kicker.... What works best for THIS game (the heck with reality)? In other words, what is the fastest way (i.e., time I think would be the critical factor) to go from say 1000 meters altitude (easy to pick on QMB) and maybe 250 knots clean configuration to 0 meters altitude and 0 knots (without crashing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) by landing successfully (undamaged) on a runway? Or maybe just on the ground beneath you, too.

Trying this on tail draggers and trikes, anyone up for the challenge to put their methodology to the test? Let's say neutral trim, no airbrakes, just throttle, prop pitch, and flaps. Let's further specify the tail draggers (P51D-20, Bf109 k4, and/or Ki-84c) and the trikes (P39Q, P38L). Record the tracks and note the time on playback, and post the results along with your methods.

Any takers?

* _54th_Speeder *

http://members.cox.net/~ijhutch/_images/400x200sig.jpg

UncleVanya2001
03-15-2004, 12:35 PM
I forget who it was or where I read it, but one WW2 ace used to fly in low & fast, buzz the field (presumably checking the runway for bomb-craters or obstructions, but most likely just showing off), pull up hard (thus losing airspeed), perform a hard loop (losing even more airspeed) drop gear & flaps in the last few moments & float in for what witnesses described as a perfect landing.

Steep turns will get you down in a hurry without an increase in airspeed (which is how the FAA teaches to you descend in an emergency) and forward slips (full rudder in either direction & opposite yoke to prevent the airplane from turning--they're actually a lot of fun) will work as well. I tried a forward slip the other day in FB (I was high & had someone on my tail but was damaged and out of ammo) & it worked all right. I just wish the weather in FB was better so we could do good cross-wind landings. Go on-line & set it to 15 to 25 knots & see how many people become airborne (particuarly in taildraggers) or even land (could you imagine coming in & trying to land with a damaged rudder? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif )

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

UV

Covino
03-15-2004, 12:59 PM
Keep the flaps DOWN after touchdown! Bouncing back up is not a result of excess lift but usually because the approach was to steep. Once airborne again, after the bounce, flaps might be the one thing that saves you from plowing 6 feet underground. Also flaps will help you slow down faster due to more drag.