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View Full Version : (video) This is my ideal of a Highlander combat



kweassa1
08-30-2017, 08:51 AM
It there is one advantage the HL has got over all the other classes, he's simply the best in the feint game. No denying this.

The sheer amount of variety of skills that can be feinted to force reaction easily overshadows the Kensei's UB feinting game (*hang in there Kensei players...! RAH!), and I believe it even far surpasses the Berserker feint game.

Theoretically speaking, a stance that has UB built into it will ALWAYS force a reaction of some sort, and therefore how well you can disguise your patterns and confuse the other guy can become a distinct advantage that may be exploited to your liking. Compared to how most classes only really have just one skill -- standard heavy attack -- to feint, it is something a HL player must master, IMO.

The video below is a footage from one of my friend... and basically how he plays the HL aggressively is the very example of some of the points I've made in many Highlander related discussions and threads -- the mixups, the variety of feints, intimidation with OF, drawing out reaction, mindgames, and excellent base defense skill with parries and crushing counters.

I'm not saying this guy's the best HL in the world. My friend here is actually very modest and he says he is just average level. I'm also am not saying the opponents he fights are the best players in the game.

The point I want to make this video is that the way he plays the HL is something I've always theorized but never could do with my lacking skill. Every single mentioning of HL "feints" and "mixups" I've made in other threads, this vid provides the real life example, so that's why I wanted to share it with the community -- with people who love this new class, but find problems in using him well.

I hope this video can encourage many Highlander players to try to be more proactive in combat, and aggressively use mixups and feints and not resort to transparent and repetitive tactics which the opponent can easily hash out and counter.

Yes, the HL's got some problems. The way it is designed makes you work more for less results than other classes. But that doesn't mean the Highlander's got to always lose. Do it well enough and dang, HL's an insanely fun class to play, because every move, every pattern you think of, and execute in combat successfully, is simply MASSIVELY rewarding.



Enjoy...!



https://youtu.be/LgXKqHfUpMA

(ps) Some things to take notice of:

1. low reliance on Celtic Curse makes his OF moments less predictable
2. low reliance on Fomkick or Cabtoss
3. very aggressive use of variety of feints
4. decent basic defense skills, especially good use of light parry → OF → UBheavy
5. has no "I gotta land something!" obsession when in OF → immediately reverts to DF wben things are hazy
6. good use of OF lights during mixups
7. good use of OF feint/cancel into GBs
8. relative fast and aggressive pacing of combat to confuse opponents and force reaction

matt89connor
08-30-2017, 10:01 AM
man, the guy is strong with him but, he play most of time in defense, the HL should be created to be offensive and i try to used in this way. He do the 70% of dmg with parry of light and counter attack .
Ubi boys should send this video to the Dev so they probably understand (i hope ), than the meta changes is needed now not November -.-

Vakris_One
08-30-2017, 02:50 PM
That's a great example of playing the Highlander more aggressively. His mixup potential can actually be quite intimidating for his opponent.

My problem is I always keep falling back on using Celtic Curse as my main source of opening someone up and starting up my attack chains. I mainly do this because the Highlander's slowness bothers me and the Celtic Curse mind game feels the most comfortable with which to start up my mixups. I need to get out of the habit of trading with my opponent and instead hold firm, use feinting, and be ready to free flow into OS more often.

Two things which really hamper the kind of approach seen in video though are the massive stamina cost of using OS lights and the stamina cost for cancelling offensive stance. One of those two things has to be lossened by the devs up me thinks.

Netcode_err_404
08-30-2017, 03:12 PM
He plays reactive, so yeah. Just wait your opponenst's moves and react.


What happens if I turtle up myself ? GGez

Knight_Raime
08-30-2017, 07:54 PM
yeah it's pree good. Issue happens with me though when the person decides to turtle up and not make many parry attempts.
But this video deff shows that his stamina usage needs a change. waaay too easy to burn all of it.

Also watching this video has finally given me perspective on why OF lights have the uninturrptable property. It's so that even when blocked you can continue mixing up or harassing just in case the opponent thinks they can attempt something after blocking it.

props to your friend though.

UbiNoty
08-31-2017, 12:01 AM
Thanks for sharing kweassa! You have no idea how happy it makes me to see something like this!
I believe we've always seen HL as a high skill cap hero who will push players into something more than just linear, straightforward attack and response. So I'm really glad to see some of that start to come to fruition.

That being said, we are aware of some of the weaknesses you've all brought up about him, and we'll be looking to address them soon.

RoosterIlluzion
08-31-2017, 12:14 AM
*Feinting, not drinking.

PrimaGoosa
08-31-2017, 12:42 AM
Really fun video to watch. His parry game is on point.

Netcode_err_404
08-31-2017, 01:05 AM
Thanks for sharing kweassa! You have no idea how happy it makes me to see something like this!
I believe we've always seen HL as a high skill cap hero who will push players into something more than just linear, straightforward attack and response. So I'm really glad to see some of that start to come to fruition.

That being said, we are aware of some of the weaknesses you've all brought up about him, and we'll be looking to address them soon.



High skill cap hero in for honor ?

Unless you guys don't nerf WL and cents, high skill cap hero are as usefull as your customer service.

Dude_of_Valor
08-31-2017, 05:03 PM
Watched the video and the opponents seemed to stay so close to him. They needed to keep distance much better (at least it would save them being smashed so much!)

dizzy-glad
08-31-2017, 07:54 PM
High skill cap hero in for honor ?

Unless you guys don't nerf WL and cents, high skill cap hero are as usefull as your customer service.

Just quit the game already. These "clever burns" are tired and annoying, my eyes hurt from them rolling so much. What's the point of non-stop complaining? Go find something you enjoy so you have something good to talk about for once.

That HL player in the video is incredible. Good use of mixing up aggression and defense, and really shows how limited the hero is/how much harder they have to work compared to most other heroes.

kweassa1
09-01-2017, 08:49 AM
https://youtu.be/rx6FDF_wsDQ

Here's video 2 with some more fine-arse Highlander gameplay.


Reactive? There's nothing reactive about how he plays. His high success rate in reactive defense doesn't mean he's playing totally reliant on reactive defensive game play (= 'turtling'). Count the number of actions the Highlander takes on any given span of time -- he forces reaction from others, and counters it accordingly. He doesn't just wait for free parry attempts -- he makes those himself.

Yes the HL attacks are relative among the slowest and quite easy to parry. So -- IMO -- the most distinct characteristic of my friend here when he plays the Highlander, is mixing up and totally screwing the other guy in a mind-game, that the other guy can't even attempt to parry his moves.


Some of the "highlight moments" HL players should be looking at, IMO...


- 00:32 - 00:37 : a light-OF-heavy-feint to draw out opponent parry, and counter-parrying it

- 01:30 - 01:33 : after a successful OF top heavy, a consecutive OF left heavy feinted into a left DF light in anticipation of opponent parry

- 02:06 - 02:11 : masterful series of OF mixups

- 02:12 - 02:15 : a light-heavy combo, immediately feinted to revert to defend opponent attack

- 03:12 - 03:18 : quite often you can see this all throughout the vid -- OF heavy feinted into GB is REALLY FAST. It's fast enough to GB the opponent's (failed parry that became) heavy attack on start-up quite easily.

- 03:50 - 03:54 : really shows how important OF lights are in mix-ups. If only this OF light was buffed a bit...!

CandleInTheDark
09-01-2017, 10:12 AM
That feint-fu is downright Kensei-like. The videos here show what a high skill ceiling Highlander has. One question, is that an emoji on his cloak? (Could be I have emojis on the brain, my nephew came to stay and he is obsessed by them >.>)

kweassa1
09-01-2017, 10:19 AM
"High skill ceiling" -- that's for sure. It's gonna be a long, long time until I'm able to play like that, and perhaps I'd never get there at all.

How he does so many feints and moves and still manages stamina well enough is frankly baffling.


(ps) I think its a phoenix emblem or something. For the Highlander the cloak symbols seem to be placed a lot lower than you'd normally expect, so the symbol usually rests around where the butt would be, not his back. :rolleyes:

CandleInTheDark
09-01-2017, 10:34 AM
"High skill ceiling" -- that's for sure. It's gonna be a long, long time until I'm able to play like that, and perhaps I'd never get there at all.

How he does so many feints and moves and still manages stamina well enough is frankly baffling.


(ps) I think its a phoenix emblem or something. For the Highlander the cloak symbols seem to be placed a lot lower than you'd normally expect, so the symbol usually rests around where the butt would be, not his back. :rolleyes:

It really is impressive play all around, I did my half hour or so against bots with him when he came out to try and understand him and he is not just a pick up and play character,huge respect to anyone that can do that kind of thing with him.

I spotted the phoenix, there was another picture top left, but yeah I am seeing them everywhere right now >.> darn new age four year olds.

Alustar.
09-01-2017, 11:53 AM
Just quit the game already. These "clever burns" are tired and annoying, my eyes hurt from them rolling so much. What's the point of non-stop complaining? Go find something you enjoy so you have something good to talk about for once.

That HL player in the video is incredible. Good use of mixing up aggression and defense, and really shows how limited the hero is/how much harder they have to work compared to most other heroes.

He does this constantly. Regardless of what the topic is, this guy has the same thing to say, and it's always a complaint about the same heroes being OP in comparison to his select few.

If I knew how to block someone I would have by now. I like disagreeing with people (sometimes I jut flat out play devils advocate because it's fun) but complainers like these can't even be reasoned with.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 12:34 PM
Just quit the game already. These "clever burns" are tired and annoying, my eyes hurt from them rolling so much. What's the point of non-stop complaining? Go find something you enjoy so you have something good to talk about for once.

That HL player in the video is incredible. Good use of mixing up aggression and defense, and really shows how limited the hero is/how much harder they have to work compared to most other heroes.



That HL player is a turtle scrub. He is just reacting.


Most of the vanilla heroes are limited because the class designer is trash at his job. And ofc they need to sell seaso pass.


HL is B tier. The first turtle god you meet, its gg.

Especially on pc, because the feinted curse is pretty much useless.

UNLESS some nerd doesn't find any game breaking exploit to abuse over and over.

And regarding their customer service, they are really garbage, no exageration.

kweassa1
09-01-2017, 05:10 PM
That HL player is a turtle scrub. He is just reacting.


Most of the vanilla heroes are limited because the class designer is trash at his job. And ofc they need to sell seaso pass.


HL is B tier. The first turtle god you meet, its gg.

Especially on pc, because the feinted curse is pretty much useless.

UNLESS some nerd doesn't find any game breaking exploit to abuse over and over.

And regarding their customer service, they are really garbage, no exageration.

LOL maybe you'd like to share with us how well you play your HL then? :)


ROFL

dizzy-glad
09-01-2017, 06:17 PM
That HL player is a turtle scrub. He is just reacting.


Most of the vanilla heroes are limited because the class designer is trash at his job. And ofc they need to sell seaso pass.


HL is B tier. The first turtle god you meet, its gg.

Especially on pc, because the feinted curse is pretty much useless.

UNLESS some nerd doesn't find any game breaking exploit to abuse over and over.

And regarding their customer service, they are really garbage, no exageration.

You're so jaded from complaining so much that you can't even recognize and appreciate a good skillful show when you see one. For one thing, HL is built as a patient character, but this player is not waiting for opportunities to counter attack, he's creating them by being aggressive and mixing up. It's a balance of turtle and aggression, which is what this game needs. It doesn't need straight turtling and it doesn't need straight button mashing aggro.

Maybe if you stop blaming every problem you have on everything but yourself, you might see where you could improve your play and attitude, because right now, it looks like you suck too hard to even see what's actually happening in the video.

watsonclan335u
09-01-2017, 07:00 PM
Awesome gameplay to be sure....this guy is definitely anything but "an average player" though lol. A lot of his parrys came from knowing exactly what those wardens and orichi's were going to do next. What struck me was how seamlessly he could go from OF to DF and feint to lights...this dude is the real deal to be sure.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 07:06 PM
You're so jaded from complaining so much that you can't even recognize and appreciate a good skillful show when you see one. For one thing, HL is built as a patient character, but this player is not waiting for opportunities to counter attack, he's creating them by being aggressive and mixing up. It's a balance of turtle and aggression, which is what this game needs. It doesn't need straight turtling and it doesn't need straight button mashing aggro.

Maybe if you stop blaming every problem you have on everything but yourself, you might see where you could improve your play and attitude, because right now, it looks like you suck too hard to even see what's actually happening in the video.



Cool story.

So, according to that awesome cool story, nothing is Op and nothing is UP, its just you and how you fight. Roman would love to hear more about that ( cool) story, for his centurion.


The only OP thing about HL is his ******ed tracking, that is clearly bad designed, he doesn't feint, he just slide away with a 1990 animation that will confuse you. Thats all. The overall class has no place in the current meta. Who know, maybe when parrying a 600 ms light won't be rewarded with 80 damage.....


dizzy-glad
09-01-2017, 08:24 PM
Cool story.

So, according to that awesome cool story, nothing is Op and nothing is UP, its just you and how you fight. Roman would love to hear more about that ( cool) story, for his centurion.


The only OP thing about HL is his ******ed tracking, that is clearly bad designed, he doesn't feint, he just slide away with a 1990 animation that will confuse you. Thats all. The overall class has no place in the current meta. Who know, maybe when parrying a 600 ms light won't be rewarded with 80 damage.....



The point of the story is shut up and stop being a baby.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 08:31 PM
The point of the story is shut up and stop being a baby.


1st this is a public forum, so i talk as much as I want

And second, i give my impressions when I want, for all the time I want.


After seeing the 10k tournament, i stopped to take this game seriously, so, please avoid beeing the "git gud police" with me, i don't take you seriously anyway.


But since a lot of people seems triggered, i will just say that this guy on the video is super cool extra awesome, and the HL is super awesome top tier.



Have a nice evening.

Alustar.
09-01-2017, 08:47 PM
Cool story.

So, according to that awesome cool story, nothing is Op and nothing is UP, its just you and how you fight. Roman would love to hear more about that ( cool) story, for his centurion.


The only OP thing about HL is his ******ed tracking, that is clearly bad designed, he doesn't feint, he just slide away with a 1990 animation that will confuse you. Thats all. The overall class has no place in the current meta. Who know, maybe when parrying a 600 ms light won't be rewarded with 80 damage.....



What does the night sky look like on your planet?

dizzy-glad
09-01-2017, 08:49 PM
1st this is a public forum, so i talk as much as I want

And second, i give my impressions when I want, for all the time I want.


After seeing the 10k tournament, i stopped to take this game seriously, so, please avoid beeing the "git gud police" with me, i don't take you seriously anyway.


But since a lot of people seems triggered, i will just say that this guy on the video is super cool extra awesome, and the HL is super awesome top tier.



Have a nice evening.

First, I'll defend to the death your right to cry like a baby, but that doesn't mean anyone wants to see it over and over again.

Second, you've made your position known multiple times, and at this point you're just a masochist to keep punishing yourself with constant negativity. I mean, it's just social science to see how people eventually react to you. The more you keep expressing the same, tired impressions, the less people care what you have to say. It's just human behavior and you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

By all means, continue your crusade of shouting into the echo chamber. I mean, am I trying to help you here? I'm waiting on a ferry and bored, but what are you doing coming back here to voice the same complaints? It's like an OCD, "complaining 29 times didn't help, it must be 30 times. 30 times and then I'll get what I've been asking for." You're practically insane to keep trying the same thing and expecting something else to happen.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 09:02 PM
First, I'll defend to the death your right to cry like a baby, but that doesn't mean anyone wants to see it over and over again.

Second, you've made your position known multiple times, and at this point you're just a masochist to keep punishing yourself with constant negativity. I mean, it's just social science to see how people eventually react to you. The more you keep expressing the same, tired impressions, the less people care what you have to say. It's just human behavior and you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

By all means, continue your crusade of shouting into the echo chamber. I mean, am I trying to help you here? I'm waiting on a ferry and bored, but what are you doing coming back here to voice the same complaints? It's like an OCD, "complaining 29 times didn't help, it must be 30 times. 30 times and then I'll get what I've been asking for." You're practically insane to keep trying the same thing and expecting something else to happen.

Do you know the difference between claiming a fact, and crying ?


I don't care **** about crying for this broken game. And i don't care about balance. When i want to try hard i go turtling WL and gg. But that doesn't mean i woudn't like to see a balanced title.


As i said, if you want to hear that HL is fine and the chinese guy is awesome. Ok, they are.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 09:04 PM
What does the night sky look like on your planet?

Remembers me the black screen error that still is a thing after 7 months.

Alustar.
09-01-2017, 09:06 PM
Do you know the difference between claiming a fact, and crying ?


I don't care **** about crying for this broken game. And i don't care about balance. When i want to try hard i go turtling WL and gg. But that doesn't mean i woudn't like to see a balanced title.


As i said, if you want to hear that HL is fine and the chinese guy is awesome. Ok, they are.


Remembers me the black screen error that still is a thing after 7 months.

LMFAO! Two back to back, priceless, nonesense responses. And here I thought the gene pool couldn't get any shallower!

dizzy-glad
09-01-2017, 09:11 PM
Do you know the difference between claiming a fact, and crying ?

*whooosh*

You know you can do both at the same time, right?

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 09:22 PM
*whooosh*

You know you can do both at the same time, right?



Actually not.


If i say the WL is broken, is not crying, is just telling the sad truth.


When I create a thread claiming that this game is a scam because having these severe connectivity problem, in a multiplayer focused game in 2017 is beyond the absurd, is not crying.


When I create a thread claiming that the network dudes are trash, im not crying, its a clear fact.

Alustar.
09-01-2017, 09:24 PM
Actually not.


If i say the WL is broken, is not crying, is just telling the sad truth.


When I create a thread claiming that this game is a scam because having these severe connectivity problem, in a multiplayer focused game in 2017 is beyond the absurd, is not crying.


When I create a thread claiming that the network dudes are trash, im not crying, its a clear fact.

Yup, love seeing the word "opinion" replaced with "truth".

dizzy-glad
09-01-2017, 09:26 PM
Actually not.


If i say the WL is broken, is not crying, is just telling the sad truth.


When I create a thread claiming that this game is a scam because having these severe connectivity problem, in a multiplayer focused game in 2017 is beyond the absurd, is not crying.


When I create a thread claiming that the network dudes are trash, im not crying, its a clear fact.

When you post about it 87 times with snarky "gottemgud" jabs directed at the people responsible for giving you what you ask for, you are stating facts by crying about it.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 09:27 PM
Yup, love seeing the word "opinion" replaced with "truth".



The word opinion in this game doesn't exist, that the WL is op is a fact.

That the connectivity is trash is a fact.

Unless you are paid by ubisoft to say that connectivity has largely improved. When basically every page there is someone that cannot finish a domionion in 2+ hours of playtime.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 09:28 PM
When you post about it 87 times with snarky "gottemgud" jabs directed at the people responsible for giving you what you ask for, you are stating facts by crying about it.

Don't read my comments. I will repeat you once again, i type what i like, when I like.

Alustar.
09-01-2017, 09:31 PM
Don't read my comments. I will repeat you once again, i type what i like, when I like.

Omfg! I cackled! So loud I scared my dog! Holy **** thank you. I needed this laugh, I didn't even know!

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 09:33 PM
Omfg! I cackled! So loud I scared my dog! Holy **** thank you. I needed this laugh, I didn't even know!

Poor dog.

Alustar.
09-01-2017, 09:35 PM
Poor dog.

She's still happier than you'll ever be, trust me.

dizzy-glad
09-01-2017, 09:48 PM
Don't read my comments. I will repeat you once again, i type what i like, when I like.

Just sayin, the point of complaining is to bring issues to light. Beyond that, it's ubi's problem. This incessant "fact claiming" is just impotent rage that damages your reputation. If you don't care about that, there's really nothing else to discuss.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 09:58 PM
Just sayin, the point of complaining is to bring issues to light. Beyond that, it's ubi's problem. This incessant "fact claiming" is just impotent rage that damages your reputation. If you don't care about that, there's really nothing else to discuss.

My reputation ? On what ? On a game's forum ? LOL. No, I don't care.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 10:00 PM
She's still happier than you'll ever be, trust me.

She is lucky, she is happier than me, and smarter than you. And I bet she even would kick ur *** in FH .

Alustar.
09-01-2017, 10:05 PM
She is lucky, she is happier than me, and smarter than you. And I bet she even would kick ur *** in FH .

Considering how smart Boxers are in general as a breed, if she had opposable thumbs, I'm sure she would be a top tier player. But then, beating me isn't a whole lot to brag about.

What happened was, he tried to make a joke, but it didn't come out like a joke, it came out as more of just a statement. Nice try though.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 10:06 PM
Considering how smart Boxers are in general as a breed, if she had opposable thumbs, I'm sure she would be a top tier player. But then, beating me isn't a whole lot to brag about.

What happened was, he tried to make a joke, but it didn't come out like a joke, it came out as more of just a statement. Nice try though.

Teach her to main WL, she would be top tier player in no time.

S0Mi_xD
09-01-2017, 10:08 PM
The word opinion in this game doesn't exist, that the WL is op is a fact.

That the connectivity is trash is a fact.

Unless you are paid by ubisoft to say that connectivity has largely improved. When basically every page there is someone that cannot finish a domionion in 2+ hours of playtime.

I love this irony xD - some people claim, that Warlord is OP because of reasons and other take those rants as truth or fact xD
It is easier to just blaspheme about everything, or it is your hobby.

Connectivity improved alot, but if you bleed out the Wireless internet from your neighbors or the next Mc Donalds/Burger King, the best improvements for For Honors connectivity would be useless.


All those facts ignore one important point, everybody has different conditions(internet, equipment, reactions, skills, adaptivity, eyes, brains, experience etc.)
You just judge the game based on your OPINION, and everything that doesn't match with it is wrong.... Or paid by Ubisoft xD

Alustar.
09-01-2017, 10:11 PM
I love this irony xD - some people claim, that Warlord is OP because of reasons and other take those rants as truth or fact xD
It is easier to just blaspheme about everything, or it is your hobby.

Connectivity improved alot, but if you bleed out the Wireless internet from your neighbors or the next Mc Donalds/Burger King, the best improvements for For Honors connectivity would be useless.


All those facts ignore one important point, everybody has different conditions(internet, equipment, reactions, skills, adaptivity, eyes, brains, experience etc.)
You just judge the game based on your OPINION, and everything that doesn't match with it is wrong.... Or paid by Ubisoft xD

You are clearly paid by Ubi! XD

dizzy-glad
09-01-2017, 10:20 PM
My reputation ? On what ? On a game's forum ? LOL. No, I don't care.

If you have a reputation for being a whiny baby (and I'm sure that's not exclusive to these forums) then basically everything you say sounds like the crying of an implacable baby. Maybe if I pat you on the back until you burp, you'll be happier.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 10:20 PM
I love this irony xD - some people claim, that Warlord is OP because of reasons and other take those rants as truth or fact xD
It is easier to just blaspheme about everything, or it is your hobby.

Connectivity improved alot, but if you bleed out the Wireless internet from your neighbors or the next Mc Donalds/Burger King, the best improvements for For Honors connectivity would be useless.


All those facts ignore one important point, everybody has different conditions(internet, equipment, reactions, skills, adaptivity, eyes, brains, experience etc.)
You just judge the game based on your OPINION, and everything that doesn't match with it is wrong.... Or paid by Ubisoft xD



!) My connectivity has improved with latest patch

2) Connectivity has improved with the latest patch.



See the differences ?




Wl is op by fact, all you need to do is comparing his whole kit and stats with the rest of the roster.



Theres nothing wrong in beeing paaid by ubisoft to talk good of a game. Pretty much every YT that still play this game are paid.

watsonclan335u
09-01-2017, 11:00 PM
Teach her to main WL, she would be top tier player in no time.

So this is your new bandwagon now is it? On to rallying the troops for a warlord nerf? You sir are a piece of work, last week it was Raider that was over the top unfair OP, now onto warlord, then what? You're just a little tantrum-throwing child that hasn't run out of toys to chuck out of the pram yet, surely you can't be far off at this point though. If nothing else at least you are a reasonable source of entertainment to the others here who bare witnesses to your rantings.

Alustar.
09-01-2017, 11:09 PM
If you have a reputation for being a whiny baby (and I'm sure that's not exclusive to these forums) then basically everything you say sounds like the crying of an implacable baby. Maybe if I pat you on the back until you burp, you'll be happier.

Careful, I doubt he even knows what "implacable" even means...

S0Mi_xD
09-01-2017, 11:10 PM
So this is your new bandwagon now is it? On to rallying the troops for a warlord nerf? You sir are a piece of work, last week it was Raider that was over the top unfair OP, now onto warlord, then what? You're just a little tantrum-throwing child that hasn't run out of toys to chuck out of the pram yet, surely you can't be far off at this point though. If nothing else at least you are a reasonable source of entertainment to the others here who bare witnesses to your rantings.

That's just how he is - since i joined one of the first BS comments i saw in here were from this guy

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 11:24 PM
So this is your new bandwagon now is it? On to rallying the troops for a warlord nerf? You sir are a piece of work, last week it was Raider that was over the top unfair OP, now onto warlord, then what? You're just a little tantrum-throwing child that hasn't run out of toys to chuck out of the pram yet, surely you can't be far off at this point though. If nothing else at least you are a reasonable source of entertainment to the others here who bare witnesses to your rantings.

I never said Raider was OP, but stampede was a problem, just because ur bad and you can't win neither with stampede, doesn't means it is fine.

But surely you are showing all your maturity with this post.


All these git gud guys nowadays, if you are all that good, you won't have a problem even with last recent nerf, am I wrong ?

I don't even need to rant, all the problems this game has are by far enlightened by others community members. Infact i never created a rant post, all I did was just confirm what others say :P

dizzy-glad
09-01-2017, 11:44 PM
I never said Raider was OP, but stampede was a problem, just because ur bad and you can't win neither with stampede, doesn't means it is fine.

But surely you are showing all your maturity with this post.


All these git gud guys nowadays, if you are all that good, you won't have a problem even with last recent nerf, am I wrong ?

I don't even need to rant, all the problems this game has are by far enlightened by others community members. Infact i never created a rant post, all I did was just confirm what others say :P

lol what are you even talking about now? Remember how this thread started with showcasing what a good HL is capable of, and you come and take a giant **** on it? You have nothing useful to contribute.

Netcode_err_404
09-01-2017, 11:49 PM
lol what are you even talking about now? Remember how this thread started with showcasing what a good HL is capable of, and you come and take a giant **** on it? You have nothing useful to contribute.

Replace HL with turtle and I agree

S0Mi_xD
09-02-2017, 12:09 AM
lol what are you even talking about now? Remember how this thread started with showcasing what a good HL is capable of, and you come and take a giant **** on it? You have nothing useful to contribute.

Don't take him serious, he is just a troll from the beginning. ^^



I don't even need to rant, all the problems this game has are by far enlightened by others community members. Infact i never created a rant post, all I did was just confirm what others say :P

Here, he confirmed it himself :D

dizzy-glad
09-02-2017, 12:23 AM
Replace HL with turtle and I agree

A turtle does nothing, absolutely nothing, but react. Like I said, you can't even tell what's happening in the video, or you have some strange definition for what turtling is. Like, if someone else initiates an attack and it's countered, that's automatically turtling? Do you see how he baits out a reaction rather than sitting there doing nothing until after the opponent does something?

Netcode_err_404
09-02-2017, 02:03 AM
A turtle does nothing, absolutely nothing, but react. Like I said, you can't even tell what's happening in the video, or you have some strange definition for what turtling is. Like, if someone else initiates an attack and it's countered, that's automatically turtling? Do you see how he baits out a reaction rather than sitting there doing nothing until after the opponent does something?

You cannot win a fight exclusevely with turtling, you need to know when and against who you need to turtle, but you should know it.


Baiting reactions is not a reliable techinique in this game. It can work vs quick play scrubs, wait to fight lvl 40 warlords rofl.

Netcode_err_404
09-02-2017, 02:05 AM
Don't take him serious, he is just a troll from the beginning. ^^



Here, he confirmed it himself :D

Im a troll because i say the tanghible facts ? Ok then.

Your friend alustar got demolished by facts when he claimed that cent was low/mid tier. Look at him now, he played the role of the experienced player, just to get demolished with fhtracker. LOL.

Alustar.
09-02-2017, 04:02 AM
Im a troll because i say the tanghible facts ? Ok then.

Your friend alustar got demolished by facts when he claimed that cent was low/mid tier. Look at him now, he played the role of the experienced player, just to get demolished with fhtracker. LOL.

First off kid, there is a clear difference between experience and being good.

The mostly important being (and go ahead and browse my posting history if you are worried about actual facts) I have never claimed to be that good. I've openly said that in the realm of for honor I'm an expeienced gamer being shown just how sub par I really am. I'm ok with this. My ego isn't some fragile thing, so try again maybe? Secondly I have never and will never claim any kind of tier system. You can fact check that too. I believe that personal skill will (in most cases) trump %80 of what you will encounter. (Sometimes you just get ledged to death. It sucks :/)
Additionally, -I- posted my OWN handle to show that YES I am a Sub par player that has certain opinions that contradict that vocal outcry of a few people still struggling.
And finally you are so sorely mistaken if you think you (or anyone here for that matter) has what it takes to "demolish" me with words, you can barely make a sentence.

Now stop hijacking constructive threads!

kweassa1
09-02-2017, 05:10 AM
Kinda baffling as to why someone would make a total arsehat of oneself by just non-stop dissing and cussing at the game, at the developers, at other players,, and even through a pathetic track record that involves forum handle changing.

Some sort of jealousy? :confused:

watsonclan335u
09-02-2017, 06:17 AM
A friend once told me this: "When you find em' stupid, you leave em' that way". And at this point I can't think of a better way to handle seeing any future posts by this doosh, you sir are a menace.

mrmistark
09-02-2017, 07:52 AM
Honestly I'm over here just waiting for controller remaking cause on an Xbox controller holding down the right trigger for OS and then trying to keep it held down while pressing the right bumper is just a nightmare and the only way to do it and still have access to the x button is to have your middle finger on the trigger with pointer finger tapping light. It feels too awkward. Can't wait until I find a better alternative with remapping cause it's making the super quick offensive lights too big of a pain in the butt to be viable to me right now. Props to your friend though. Watched that first or second fight against the nob probs 12 times over trying to understand how he made the HL spin like that. Need to practice with him some more. Put him on the back burner cause ranked duel.

Netcode_err_404
09-02-2017, 10:20 AM
First off kid, there is a clear difference between experience and being good.

The mostly important being (and go ahead and browse my posting history if you are worried about actual facts) I have never claimed to be that good. I've openly said that in the realm of for honor I'm an expeienced gamer being shown just how sub par I really am. I'm ok with this. My ego isn't some fragile thing, so try again maybe? Secondly I have never and will never claim any kind of tier system. You can fact check that too. I believe that personal skill will (in most cases) trump %80 of what you will encounter. (Sometimes you just get ledged to death. It sucks :/)
Additionally, -I- posted my OWN handle to show that YES I am a Sub par player that has certain opinions that contradict that vocal outcry of a few people still struggling.
And finally you are so sorely mistaken if you think you (or anyone here for that matter) has what it takes to "demolish" me with words, you can barely make a sentence.

Now stop hijacking constructive threads!

If you are trash at the game, like most of these people, then why you jump on every threads roleplaying the git gud guy ?

Kweassa1 did it since d1 recently someone posted his tracker that shows he is literally one of the most trash player ever.

Now, i don't mind bout stats, but do not say to git gud ehen you barely can hold a controller in your hands.

I see there is even the other scrub that abused stampede, now crying at ubi because they nerfed it, poor scrub.

The game is completely broken and in my book it is as competitive as dark souls 1

Have a good day mr cent is average tier

Specialkha
09-02-2017, 10:48 AM
The HL in this video is kinda a big turtle as I see it. He did some good offense moves, but most of the time, he is just playing along the def meta.

Netcode_err_404
09-02-2017, 10:49 AM
The HL in this video is kinda a big turtle as I see it. He did some good offense moves, but most of the time, he is just playing along the def meta.

Precisely.

S0Mi_xD
09-02-2017, 10:58 AM
You cannot win a fight exclusevely with turtling, you need to know when and against who you need to turtle, but you should know it.


Baiting reactions is not a reliable techinique in this game. It can work vs quick play scrubs, wait to fight lvl 40 warlords rofl.

:D so playing sometimes abit defensive depending on the enemy you fight is automaticly turtling :D ? Nice, so i turtle every time i dodge back because i need abit space. Or block and parry following attacks because they are easy predicted.
Nothing is relieable, even blocks somestimes fail xD even if you never switch the side and he only attacks from this one side.

(just as a reminder, I am a berserker main)
Fought some rep 30 + warlords --- most of them where scrubs who pushed themself up :D, and also fought against rep 1 warlords who wrecked me.
But fighting great warlords isn't hard sometimes because the Hero is "OP" but because the player is good and knows what he needs to do xD.
I can fight head on with great warlords.

You know, i learned to play warlord, and there is nothing special, he has some good tools, but to be a great warlord you need to be a skilled player, and if you are a skilled player, you can be good with every hero.

You will learn a hero one time, and know what he is capable of, but you always need to adapt to the playstyle of your enemy - adaptation is a big factor of skill, and if i see people like you, who still rant about warlord and call him OP, i can only think of you as a average player who stuck to his playstyle and always does the same predictable moves.

Knight_Raime
09-02-2017, 11:06 AM
:D so playing sometimes abit defensive depending on the enemy you fight is automaticly turtling :D ? Nice, so i turtle every time i dodge back because i need abit space. Or block and parry following attacks because they are easy predicted.
Nothing is relieable, even blocks somestimes fail xD even if you never switch the side and he only attacks from this one side.

(just as a reminder, I am a berserker main)
Fought some rep 30 + warlords --- most of them where scrubs who pushed themself up :D, and also fought against rep 1 warlords who wrecked me.
But fighting great warlords isn't hard sometimes because the Hero is "OP" but because the player is good and knows what he needs to do xD.
I can fight head on with great warlords.

You know, i learned to play warlord, and there is nothing special, he has some good tools, but to be a great warlord you need to be a skilled player, and if you are a skilled player, you can be good with every hero.

You will learn a hero one time, and know what he is capable of, but you always need to adapt to the playstyle of your enemy - adaptation is a big factor of skill, and if i see people like you, who still rant about warlord and call him OP, i can only think of you as a average player who stuck to his playstyle and always does the same predictable moves.

Honestly the big shocker for me was that he claims to be better for simply being on PC. Yet he's also posted that the lawbringer block shove creates a 50/50.
The poster in question would probably stop coming on here so often if people just ignored them where ever they posted. As at this point they have gone to pretty decent lengths just to entice a reaction out of someone. Hell it got me when they tried putting words in my mouth.

But this thread has been derailed enough. I suggest if anyone wants to try to continue to have a conversation with this user they take it to PMs. If said poster is going to continue instigating instead of staying on the topic of highlander (or just behaves rude in general) just ignore and move on. That's the only way forums get better as a whole.

Netcode_err_404
09-02-2017, 11:07 AM
:D so playing sometimes abit defensive depending on the enemy you fight is automaticly turtling :D ? Nice, so i turtle every time i dodge back because i need abit space. Or block and parry following attacks because they are easy predicted.
Nothing is relieable, even blocks somestimes fail xD even if you never switch the side and he only attacks from this one side.

(just as a reminder, I am a berserker main)
Fought some rep 30 + warlords --- most of them where scrubs who pushed themself up :D, and also fought against rep 1 warlords who wrecked me.
But fighting great warlords isn't hard sometimes because the Hero is "OP" but because the player is good and knows what he needs to do xD.
I can fight head on with great warlords.

You know, i learned to play warlord, and there is nothing special, he has some good tools, but to be a great warlord you need to be a skilled player, and if you are a skilled player, you can be good with every hero.

You will learn a hero one time, and know what he is capable of, but you always need to adapt to the playstyle of your enemy - adaptation is a big factor of skill, and if i see people like you, who still rant about warlord and call him OP, i can only think of you as a average player who stuck to his playstyle and always does the same predictable moves.



Nothing special, and still the most used char in every tournament with probably the highest win ratio

Netcode_err_404
09-02-2017, 11:08 AM
Honestly the big shocker for me was that he claims to be better for simply being on PC. Yet he's also posted that the lawbringer block shove creates a 50/50.
The poster in question would probably stop coming on here so often if people just ignored them where ever they posted. As at this point they have gone to pretty decent lengths just to entice a reaction out of someone. Hell it got me when they tried putting words in my mouth.

But this thread has been derailed enough. I suggest if anyone wants to try to continue to have a conversation with this user they take it to PMs. If said poster is going to continue instigating instead of staying on the topic of highlander (or just behaves rude in general) just ignore and move on. That's the only way forums get better as a whole.



Completely invented as always.

S0Mi_xD
09-02-2017, 11:10 AM
The HL in this video is kinda a big turtle as I see it. He did some good offense moves, but most of the time, he is just playing along the def meta.

Thats not turtling, he plays more safe than risky, it is an aggressive defense style.
Sometimes i need to play similar to this with my berserker, but i mix my playstyles fluently in fight to stay unpredictable.

It is fine, but Highlander has an problem that needs to be fixed.
His counterattack on lights is really abuseable.
Me and other players suggested to swap the Defense stance light with the offense stance light.
This would balance this out pretty much, and would make attack stance abit safer, and defense stance not that powerfull.

Specialkha
09-02-2017, 11:18 AM
That would make the OF not that offensive and the DF not that defensive. I think that is not what devs had in mind when they made him. On the other hand, what did they have in mind when they designed Centurion? Or when they thought that Parrying was hard? I really wonder. They should fire their test players honestly.

Can't wait for def meta fix, so we can really play a real game.

S0Mi_xD
09-02-2017, 02:35 PM
Honestly the big shocker for me was that he claims to be better for simply being on PC. Yet he's also posted that the lawbringer block shove creates a 50/50.
The poster in question would probably stop coming on here so often if people just ignored them where ever they posted. As at this point they have gone to pretty decent lengths just to entice a reaction out of someone. Hell it got me when they tried putting words in my mouth.

But this thread has been derailed enough. I suggest if anyone wants to try to continue to have a conversation with this user they take it to PMs. If said poster is going to continue instigating instead of staying on the topic of highlander (or just behaves rude in general) just ignore and move on. That's the only way forums get better as a whole.

I know it is useless to argue with him >.< ... i already tried to ignore him, it but sometimes his post are so stupid ~_~ and some other player also believe what he writes ... i wish there would be a ignore function, which includes to not display his posts....


That would make the OF not that offensive and the DF not that defensive. I think that is not what devs had in mind when they made him. On the other hand, what did they have in mind when they designed Centurion? Or when they thought that Parrying was hard? I really wonder. They should fire their test players honestly.

Can't wait for def meta fix, so we can really play a real game.

Offense form is not offensive because of the light attack, but because of the unblockables, and a counterattack is pretty offensive aswell.
The point is, every time a Highlander switches into offense, that is an invitation to attack with a fast attack, interrupt and get free dmg.

The counterattack is defense and offense at the same time, but it has a more offensive effect than defensive.

I can say what they didn't had in mind while doing this all, that there are various player who can break the limits of the game :D

Specialkha
09-02-2017, 03:36 PM
A counter attack is not an offensive move. You waited for your opponent to attack you, hence you were being defensive.

Alustar.
09-02-2017, 03:48 PM
A counter attack is not an offensive move. You waited for your opponent to attack you, hence you were being defensive.

The line blurs when you begin to feint attacks to bait a response and counter that. That is using defense in an offensive manner through deception.

S0Mi_xD
09-02-2017, 05:06 PM
The line blurs when you begin to feint attacks to bait a response and counter that. That is using defense in an offensive manner through deception.

Thats right defense an offensive way.

Specialkha, if you want it detailed.
It is a light attack, with a defensive trait (superior block), that makes the light attack stronger and unblockable, if the enemy hits the superior block.
In first line it is an attack, with a trait to counterattack and deal even more dmg.

If you compare it to parry, the difference is, that initiating heavy attack befor an attack hits you, starts a different animation.
You can also see it, if the attack misses but the parry animation still comes out, so the enemy will raise his weapon like on a parry.
Also, if you do parry, and a second attack hits you while you are in the parry animation, it will get parried as well, because all indicators are active.

Parry is in first line a defensive move, and the offensive part of it (the free dmg, that you get from a parry) is currently the part, that mainly causes the defensive meta.
In my opinion, parry shouldn't guarantee any dmg.

Alustar.
09-02-2017, 06:00 PM
Thats right defense an offensive way.

Specialkha, if you want it detailed.
It is a light attack, with a defensive trait (superior block), that makes the light attack stronger and unblockable, if the enemy hits the superior block.
In first line it is an attack, with a trait to counterattack and deal even more dmg.

If you compare it to parry, the difference is, that initiating heavy attack befor an attack hits you, starts a different animation.
You can also see it, if the attack misses but the parry animation still comes out, so the enemy will raise his weapon like on a parry.
Also, if you do parry, and a second attack hits you while you are in the parry animation, it will get parried as well, because all indicators are active.

Parry is in first line a defensive move, and the offensive part of it (the free dmg, that you get from a parry) is currently the part, that mainly causes the defensive meta.
In my opinion, parry shouldn't guarantee any dmg.

I agree whole heartless that parry shouldn't give free damage, in my experience with fighters this can lead to the biggest degrade of actual combat. Case and point look at Soul Calibur, particularly 2/3 (can't remembering much about 4) and the transition to 5.
The key notes in 2 and 3 are the guard impact, which was essentially a parry. You timed you guard input to throw your opponent back and set them up for a counter. The only problem was that this could, and often in did, lead to a good portion of any match devolving to a battle of who loses pace with the impact mechanic. and even the tutorial told you this was possible. It got to the point that the people I played with often just stopped using it out right because of how stupid it was.
Now fast forward to 5 and they changed the way it works. No longer can you throw out wild guard impacts when ever it strikes you, it's bound to a gauge that fills as you fight.

Now I am by no means saying FH should do anything like that, just simply look at the model set. Here you don't have that option to counter a counter like that but some fights just end up a feinting/whiff dance all the same.

But I think the problem is, if you limit the damage from parry you actually enforce the defensive meta. Now classes that don't benefit as much from a parry are even more at risk. Let's face it, if a turtle does his thing, your only options are to bait a parry and get what hits you can, GB him and try to get what hits you can, wait for him to be aggressive and counter that or wait till he runs out of stamina and punish that. It helps if you have access to unblockables and CC, but not everyone does. But that's all while you are getting worn down by a turtle.

I'll be the first to admit, I have no clue how to begin with this issue. But my honest impression is if people want balance, real balance, all heroes need the same tools to both open up and defend against unblockables/CC. Parry and dodge cover most of the defending but there are few heroes that have access to both and that's a problem. Be it in 1v1s or 4v4s that will ALWAYS be a discrepancy.

Specialkha
09-02-2017, 06:05 PM
Thats right defense an offensive way.

Specialkha, if you want it detailed.
It is a light attack, with a defensive trait (superior block), that makes the light attack stronger and unblockable, if the enemy hits the superior block.
In first line it is an attack, with a trait to counterattack and deal even more dmg.

If you compare it to parry, the difference is, that initiating heavy attack befor an attack hits you, starts a different animation.
You can also see it, if the attack misses but the parry animation still comes out, so the enemy will raise his weapon like on a parry.
Also, if you do parry, and a second attack hits you while you are in the parry animation, it will get parried as well, because all indicators are active.

Parry is in first line a defensive move, and the offensive part of it (the free dmg, that you get from a parry) is currently the part, that mainly causes the defensive meta.
In my opinion, parry shouldn't guarantee any dmg.

I play HL, so I know how it works. But tell me, how is it different from parry? you still wait for you opponent to do something and react to it.

dizzy-glad
09-02-2017, 07:26 PM
I play HL, so I know how it works. But tell me, how is it different from parry? you still wait for you opponent to do something and react to it.

Sometimes there's reaction because your opponent initiates an attack from neutral. Sometimes, you feint to force a response. Back and forth like this attempting to punish any mistakes.

A true blue turtle only ever waits for their opponent to initiate from neutral. Of they're more bored of staring than you, they might feint, but otherwise, they're just waiting to parry or GB a whiff. They only win by free, guaranteed damage because their opponent is tired of nothing happening. Not much of that in this video, tho a moderate amount of patience is healthy for the game and part of mind games. Mind vs mind is the whole point of player vs player.

Edited to add: Crushing counters are much harder to do on reaction than parry. The light attack has to be well into the startup. Parry is just hitting heavy when the indi flashes. It's used on a good read and prediction rather than reflxes. Some attacks are too fast unless you're already attacking with a light in the same direction with correct timing.

S0Mi_xD
09-03-2017, 12:58 AM
I agree whole heartless that parry shouldn't give free damage, in my experience with fighters this can lead to the biggest degrade of actual combat. Case and point look at Soul Calibur, particularly 2/3 (can't remembering much about 4) and the transition to 5.
The key notes in 2 and 3 are the guard impact, which was essentially a parry. You timed you guard input to throw your opponent back and set them up for a counter. The only problem was that this could, and often in did, lead to a good portion of any match devolving to a battle of who loses pace with the impact mechanic. and even the tutorial told you this was possible. It got to the point that the people I played with often just stopped using it out right because of how stupid it was.
Now fast forward to 5 and they changed the way it works. No longer can you throw out wild guard impacts when ever it strikes you, it's bound to a gauge that fills as you fight.

Now I am by no means saying FH should do anything like that, just simply look at the model set. Here you don't have that option to counter a counter like that but some fights just end up a feinting/whiff dance all the same.

But I think the problem is, if you limit the damage from parry you actually enforce the defensive meta. Now classes that don't benefit as much from a parry are even more at risk. Let's face it, if a turtle does his thing, your only options are to bait a parry and get what hits you can, GB him and try to get what hits you can, wait for him to be aggressive and counter that or wait till he runs out of stamina and punish that. It helps if you have access to unblockables and CC, but not everyone does. But that's all while you are getting worn down by a turtle.

I'll be the first to admit, I have no clue how to begin with this issue. But my honest impression is if people want balance, real balance, all heroes need the same tools to both open up and defend against unblockables/CC. Parry and dodge cover most of the defending but there are few heroes that have access to both and that's a problem. Be it in 1v1s or 4v4s that will ALWAYS be a discrepancy.

Yessss, thats the exact same example i have in mind when i think about the parry problem ^^
Also, the follow up after a guard impact can be countered by a guard impact ^^ in SC5

My full toughts on parry are:
- no guaranteed dmg, only stamina dmg
- but a followup that can't be blocked or parried, only dodged (similar to LBs shovel follow up) - so this gives you room for a short mindgame or mix ups
- if you don't want to play the mindgame, spend some stamina, if something is left and roll out - the risk here is, you can run out of stamina with the roll
- parries cost stamina (this limits the players to turtle that much and only rely on parries

those changes would help to balance it pretty well.

About giving every hero a CC/unblockable... i am not sure - if parry would be balanced in the right way, i think there is no need for those classes who have no such much to get one.
But this depends on how they change the defensive meta.

We will see, if it will be needed or not ^^


Sometimes there's reaction because your opponent initiates an attack from neutral. Sometimes, you feint to force a response. Back and forth like this attempting to punish any mistakes.

A true blue turtle only ever waits for their opponent to initiate from neutral. Of they're more bored of staring than you, they might feint, but otherwise, they're just waiting to parry or GB a whiff. They only win by free, guaranteed damage because their opponent is tired of nothing happening. Not much of that in this video, tho a moderate amount of patience is healthy for the game and part of mind games. Mind vs mind is the whole point of player vs player.

Edited to add: Crushing counters are much harder to do on reaction than parry. The light attack has to be well into the startup. Parry is just hitting heavy when the indi flashes. It's used on a good read and prediction rather than reflxes. Some attacks are too fast unless you're already attacking with a light in the same direction with correct timing.

Yeah, thats right ^^.



I play HL, so I know how it works. But tell me, how is it different from parry? you still wait for you opponent to do something and react to it.

I also for an enemies action, to punish him on a whiff, a dodge or dodge his attack and punish with a dodge attack.
I already explained the difference.
It doesn't matter if you play defensive or offensive, you should always pay attention to the enemies action.

The difference lies in the execution of the mechanic.

The counterattack of HL is a Light attack, with superior block
A parry has its own animation, that is triggered if you use a heavy attack input in the right moment.

In other words:
The light attack with superior block will always be a light attack with superior block
But parries are NO heavy attack, they are only triggered with the same input under different conditions.

Also, the superior block on his light attacks, if activated initiates a instant counterattack.
After a parry, you get nothing if you don't do anything youself.