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AnEnticingSquid
08-30-2017, 04:46 AM
*DISCLAIMER*
I'm not trying to call anybody out in this. Especially the mods on this forum. I understand that this is your job. And you are going to do what you are paid to do. I'm also not trying to call out the devs because they too are just doing their job. And from somebody who is also just doing his job, I can respect that. Furthermore, I do not hate this game. In fact it is one of my favorite games I have ever played and I have probably clocked more hours into this than I have any other ( 465 hours and 28 minutes for those who are counting).

I have made probably 4 posts by now asking what if any plans at all were being made for this game after season 4. I asked for a simple "yes" or "no". But I have never gotten a response. Even though every post around it got one, mine was conveniently missed... I know for a fact that every post is read by the mods, and I also know for a fact that the devs are at least informed of the goings on in this forum. My proof to all this is that a dev actually responded to an outrageous request of mine on a warriors den livestream infront of the entire FH community (which still blows my mind to this day.). But as far as I can tell, there is no information at all even confirming a season 5. In fact, on the roadmap, it says that season 4 will last all the way up to February... Which is exactly 1 year after the game has been launched. It seems like a very convenient coincidence. And it makes me think that will be it. I think that this game was made to be a 1 year deal...
*WARNING. CONSPIRACY THEORIES AHEAD.*

I think that everything including season 4 characters, maps, gear, executions, ECT are already completed. And they are just slowly releasing the content over the span of a year.

I think that Ubisoft did not anticipate the game to be as popular as it was (because fighting games are a small genre and this is a new ip) so they figured interests would fade in a year and they would just move on.

I think that once the game was complete, they left a skeleton crew behind to keep the game running smoothly and the rest were put on different projects. This would explain how very little has changed since the games launch.

I believe that those who are still working on the game are afraid to make any big changes because it might clash with the things they are yet to implement that are already completed.

I think that this method of releasing a full game over the span of a year was an experiment by ubisoft to see how viable it really is. They chose a new ip (and one they didn't think would be that popular) so if it failed, it wouldn't blow up in their face.

I believe that p2p was chosen because they expected a Luke warm turn out. What they got was somewhere in the region of 868k units in 1 week. This probably destroyed any sales forecasts and obliterated the p2p system in its entirety.

I believe that this too, will get no response despite every post around it getting one (please prove me wrong!).

I HOPE that I am wrong and that there will be a season 5 and so on because I don't want this game to end after 1 year. If there is a season 5 planned, I hope they will release information about it soon as I highly doubt I am the only one who recognised these disparities.

If anybody has some information or oppinions that I have missed, I would love to hear it.

Tundra 793
08-30-2017, 05:09 AM
Just offering my opinion, based on my admittedly limited knowledge of game development.


I think that everything including season 4 characters, maps, gear, executions, ECT are already completed. And they are just slowly releasing the content over the span of a year.

This is probably accurate, to an extent. I won't say that any Season 4 stuff, from heroes to maps, could be released tomorrow and work perfectly. But the state they're in now, is probably quite close to what we will end up getting.
But game development can be tricky, and unpredictable. All developers keep stuff like that under wraps until it's 100% ready for release, simply to avoid people coming to expect one thing, and then getting another.


I think that Ubisoft did not anticipate the game to be as popular as it was (because fighting games are a small genre and this is a new ip) so they figured interests would fade in a year and they would just move on.

Have to disagree here. I think For Honor either met, or quite possibly exceeded Ubisofts expectations, sales wise. One source says it sold over 700,000 digital copies during February, and that's just digital sales.
No matter how you cut it, that's a success.


I think that once the game was complete, they left a skeleton crew behind to keep the game running smoothly and the rest were put on different projects. This would explain how very little has changed since the games launch.

I'm not too sure about that. Eric Pope has said, but offered no actual evidence, that they are not running a skeleton crew. Indeed, Ubisoft Montreal employs over 3000 people.
But I've always been under the impression that once a game goes gold, a chunk of the development crew gets reassigned, simply because it takes more people to build a new game to meet deadlines, than it does to maintain a complete one.
The lack of progress could be attributed to a lot of factors. I think It's possible the developers aren't all seasoned vets, and they're working on a whole new type of game, struggling with the bugs and problems they've never encountered before.
And their insistence that they're "looking at the data", even for stuff players were telling them since the Alpha.


I believe that those who are still working on the game are afraid to make any big changes because it might clash with the things they are yet to implement that are already completed.

True, and it goes with what I said above; They're encountering brand new problems, and are being extra careful not to break more than they can fix.


I think that this method of releasing a full game over the span of a year was an experiment by ubisoft to see how viable it really is. They chose a new ip (and one they didn't think would be that popular) so if it failed, it wouldn't blow up in their face.

I'm gonna be bold, and just call you wrong on that account.
As I understand it; For Honor more or less adopted Rainbow 6 Siege's business model, which has proved quite viable.


I believe that p2p was chosen because they expected a Luke warm turn out.

There's no end to theories about why they went with a P2P system. Most say it was to save money. But there's also been a few people, with qualifications, who claim that P2P is simply the best solution for fighting games, Ubisoft just bungled their version of it up completely.

I think that's about all I can offer.
I do believe there will be a Season 5. Most likely, they'll launch their dedicated servers with it, possibly as a big reboot of the whole game, and lure in new players with it.

FinnOfTheHorde
08-30-2017, 05:41 AM
If R6 have Year 2 I hope they will do same thing with For Honor.

AnEnticingSquid
08-30-2017, 11:01 PM
Missed :(... I definitely hope it pulls a r6s, but idk if that's even their plan...

Tundra 793
08-30-2017, 11:13 PM
Missed :(... I definitely hope it pulls a r6s, but idk if that's even their plan...

I have a strong feeling that it is.

http://blog.ubi.com/for-honor-revamp-changes-for-season-3-4-detailed-dedicated-servers-incoming/

Like I said before; The dedicated servers appear slated to launch post Season 4, and from a marketing stand point, It'd be an easy sell to bring in new players for Season 5 when you couple it with a dedicated servers announcement.
Pure speculation, but It's what I think they'll end up doing.

AnEnticingSquid
08-30-2017, 11:21 PM
I have a strong feeling that it is.

http://blog.ubi.com/for-honor-revamp-changes-for-season-3-4-detailed-dedicated-servers-incoming/

Like I said before; The dedicated servers appear slated to launch post Season 4, and from a marketing stand point, It'd be an easy sell to bring in new players for Season 5 when you couple it with a dedicated servers announcement.
Pure speculation, but It's what I think they'll end up doing.

Man, I hope your right... I just wish they would confirm it...

Knight_Raime
08-30-2017, 11:48 PM
Considering the season 3 heros were in testing condition (enough to have people fly out and try them) mid season 2 you can bet your horse season 4 heros are done enough that only polish needs to be done. I would say that we are going to be getting a year 2 like rainbow 6 siege did. Both games have gone through massive growing pains. Both are becoming better though. And they both use a similar model.

Not to mention the dev team openly stating they are now starting to show their dedication to this game in season 3 to me feels like this game is going to be supported in full for the long run. There just really isn't a point in them out right confirming a year 2 at this time. They still have all of season 4 and most of season 3 to handle. Not to mention making the transition change to dedicated servers and making the defensive meta changes/roster changes near perfect.

Pvt.Stash_x
08-31-2017, 03:43 AM
This entire thread is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of project lifecycle, software support, and modern software market trends. I'm not trying to insult you. I'm simply trying to offer perspective from an actual software developer.


I have made probably 4 posts by now asking what if any plans at all were being made for this game after season 4. I asked for a simple "yes" or "no". But I have never gotten a response. Even though every post around it got one, mine was conveniently missed... I know for a fact that every post is read by the mods, and I also know for a fact that the devs are at least informed of the goings on in this forum. My proof to all this is that a dev actually responded to an outrageous request of mine on a warriors den livestream infront of the entire FH community (which still blows my mind to this day.). But as far as I can tell, there is no information at all even confirming a season 5. In fact, on the roadmap, it says that season 4 will last all the way up to February... Which is exactly 1 year after the game has been launched. It seems like a very convenient coincidence. And it makes me think that will be it. I think that this game was made to be a 1 year deal...

If you've made 4 posts on this and it hasn't gotten an official answer then you can assume they probably don't have a good answer for you. I'll explain later, but it's probably because year two is still being mapped out and has not officially been confirmed yet. Very few teams actually make avoiding public discussion and snubbing their player base on a wide scale standard operating procedure because it's toxic.


I think that everything including season 4 characters, maps, gear, executions, ECT are already completed. And they are just slowly releasing the content over the span of a year.

I think that once the game was complete, they left a skeleton crew behind to keep the game running smoothly and the rest were put on different projects. This would explain how very little has changed since the games launch.

I believe that those who are still working on the game are afraid to make any big changes because it might clash with the things they are yet to implement that are already completed.

I think that this method of releasing a full game over the span of a year was an experiment by ubisoft to see how viable it really is. They chose a new ip (and one they didn't think would be that popular) so if it failed, it wouldn't blow up in their face.

This is a misunderstanding of how software works. Even video games written 20 years ago which were developed in waterfall because distribution was so expensive weren't released this way.

What you're seeing is a classic agile approach to software development. A core product is produced and built in such a way that the team can get to market faster and add to it over time in short cycles instead of making users work 6-12 months for a major update. We're seeing patches in 2-4 weeks and major updates every 3 months.

I don't have the energy to explain two software methodologies in a gaming forum so here's some light reading which outlines the 30,000 foot view.
http://www.agilenutshell.com/agile_vs_waterfall

This one has short videos which explain the SCRUM approach to iterative software development. Every project I work on these days is moving to this model. Believe me when I say it's better for everyone.
http://scrummethodology.com/

You also need to understand that Ubi is under assault from Vivendi who has been swallowing up public shares as fast as it can. Last article I read Vivendi was only 3% away from Ubisoft being legally forced to entertain offers from Vivendi. Ubi needs to find ways to generate more profit in less time to remain an independent company. The traditional waterfall model is very high risk in today's world of digitial distribution from multiple vendors. Loyalty to a company just isn't what it used to be when users can get thousands of games from Steam, Origin, GoG, and other vendors in minutes.

The shorter iteration cycles of agile when paired with paid cosmetics and a season pass model is a recurring revenue model designed to improve profitability. Ubi isn't the only company doing it, and anyone not doing it is leaving millions on the table annually. Ubi needs that money to keep Vivendi from strolling through the doors as the new uninvited owner.


I believe that p2p was chosen because they expected a Luke warm turn out. What they got was somewhere in the region of 868k units in 1 week. This probably destroyed any sales forecasts and obliterated the p2p system in its entirety.

This is a side-effect of the adjustments mentioned above. Ubi has experience with P2P models in older games so this is what they know. As they move into a new deployment structure in a market previously unknown to them (competetive multiplayer) they went with infrastructure they know. Siege originally had a traditional P2P model where one player was host. For Honor was deployed with a hybrid P2P model where all players act as client and host and everyone runs the simulation with connections to all other players. This design shift is actually fairly dramatic.

They've recently announced a move to dedicated servers because they're seeing issues with the P2P model. This shift is even more dramatic than changing P2P models. It means completely gutting the entire network infrastructure and replacing it. It's a big deal when the product is already live with users. I've done similar tasks myself and it's not pretty or fun.



I HOPE that I am wrong and that there will be a season 5 and so on because I don't want this game to end after 1 year. If there is a season 5 planned, I hope they will release information about it soon as I highly doubt I am the only one who recognised these disparities.

You're not getting information on Season 5 because it hasn't been committed by the team and made public. This is the best we have and it will remain that way until they release info on it. Do not mistake lack of public information for lack of movement on a product. Teams working in this model are still planning months ahead for major releases. https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-297031-16/for-honor-development-schedule

Agile teams work with something called a Product Backlog. It's a list of possible features or design changes which may or may not get approved for development. The list is constantly reviewed for priority which may shift from week to week as product direction shifts. That's what makes agile so powerful. Waterfall teams would literally have to start from scratch any time the development roadmap changes.
https://www.agilealliance.org/glossary/backlog/#q=~(filters~(postType~(~'page~'post~'aa_book~'aa_ event_session~'aa_experience_report~'aa_glossary~' aa_research_paper~'aa_video)~tags~(~'backlog))~sea rchTerm~'~sort~false~sortDirection~'asc~page~1)

Backlog items are usually planned for deployment in short development cycles which typically last 2-4 weeks. Everything for year 2 (Season 5 through x) will be picked from the backlog and planned out into their potential iterations to meet the goals of the year 2 major release. There is no way the team has a firm enough Season 2 roadmap at this point to be able to tell you anything about the next year. When they have information to give you'll see it on the blogs.


....AAAAAnd finally! The TLDR
Educate yourself a bit on agile software methodologies and you'll easily see the delivery model being utilized by the team. With that knowledge much of your original post is proven incorrect. It doesn't make you stupid. It just makes you unaware of how software development actually works.

Grivois_Gaulois
08-31-2017, 03:53 AM
Ubisoft is one thing, the dev team is quite another, and I do think they are very passionated by what they are doing.

It certainly took them some time to understand what people were awaiting for they build their game without much feedback, but they did try to listen and adapt since release. Imo they are finally taking the good way for such a game, let's hope season 3 will be the actual release thus season 4 will be the very beginning of a new era for this game.