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View Full Version : Raiders Stampede Charge 50/50



ItBeJUSTICE1
08-30-2017, 03:29 AM
This needs to be changed, removed, or something. I'm tired of it. It's come to the point where I don't even stay in a Duel if there's a raider in it to save me the frustration. All they do is run at you and either gb or stampede charge you. You lose stamina so you're right back at square one as soon as it hits. You don't have any attacks that can counter it out of stamina and to be quite frank, it's the most op and absurd mechanic in this game. What happened to playing the game legit?

Antonioj26
08-30-2017, 03:31 AM
This needs to be changed, removed, or something. I'm tired of it. It's come to the point where I don't even stay in a Duel if there's a raider in it to save me the frustration. All they do is run at you and either gb or stampede charge you. You lose stamina so you're right back at square one as soon as it hits. You don't have any attacks that can counter it out of stamina and to be quite frank, it's the most op and absurd mechanic in this game. What happened to playing the game legit?

They are removing it with the live patch this week

ItBeJUSTICE1
08-30-2017, 03:32 AM
They are removing it with the live patch this week

Really? That's awesome to hear. I've stopped keeping up to date with this game for obvious reasons. Thanks for that info man. Good looks

Netcode_err_404
08-30-2017, 03:35 AM
Nobody that want really win, is going to play this game legit. Because is nroken at its core.

SB spam

Turtling

Block shove

Kick spam

Generic UB

50/50.



Its the game and how the devs developed it. Take it for what it is, or uninstall. For honor is like dark souls 1. pvp is fun, but the sooner you realize you cannot take it seriously, the better.



Many players will surely disagree.

But IDKAS.




We all hope they will start to actually care about this game's health because imho, it deserves much more, than this.


PS: yes they say they aRE NERFING IT. But those ****ers will now just jump on their warlords, and the cicle keeps going on.

UbiNoty
08-31-2017, 01:27 AM
So here's the Raider change that will be coming in tomorrow's LU:



-Stampede Charge sprint speed requirement has been increased to 4m/sec (from 3m/sec).
-Stampede Charge startup increased to 700ms (from 600ms).


Now, hopefully the increased requirements in sprint speed to proc stampede charge will limit the exploits. And since it should be easier to dodge now, that will further alleviate the earlier issues with his stampede charge.

Netcode_err_404
08-31-2017, 02:42 AM
perfect, but i'd like to remember, warlords do the same thing.

Linnix1
08-31-2017, 03:06 AM
Watch a glitch happen where you can proc stampede charge off of raiders forward dash. Wouldn't surprise me

Kelson27
08-31-2017, 06:37 AM
Forgive my ignorance but what actually happens with the stampede charge? I main raider but never really find the charge viable for anything most the time. What havoc is it causing?

watsonclan335u
08-31-2017, 07:36 AM
Forgive my ignorance but what actually happens with the stampede charge? I main raider but never really find the charge viable for anything most the time. What havoc is it causing?

It's a joke, anyone on console maining raider knows better that to use it unless under very specific circumstances. Based on the crybabies like mr. Error up there, ubi decided to nerf raider back into the shadows of forgotten heroes. This forum is ridiculous, all the things that need attention, apparently the experience of a minority of the player base decided that raider was public enemy. Bottom line, the slowest vanguard in the game goes back into the trashbin.

Netcode_err_404
08-31-2017, 11:30 AM
it's a joke, anyone on console maining raider knows better that to use it unless under very specific circumstances. Based on the crybabies like mr. Error up there, ubi decided to nerf raider back into the shadows of forgotten heroes. This forum is ridiculous, all the things that need attention, apparently the experience of a minority of the player base decided that raider was public enemy. Bottom line, the slowest vanguard in the game goes back into the trashbin.


ahahahahahahahahahahaha

Oupyz
08-31-2017, 12:07 PM
finally the raider cheap charge is gone

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 01:45 PM
It's a joke, anyone on console maining raider knows better that to use it unless under very specific circumstances. Based on the crybabies like mr. Error up there, ubi decided to nerf raider back into the shadows of forgotten heroes. This forum is ridiculous, all the things that need attention, apparently the experience of a minority of the player base decided that raider was public enemy. Bottom line, the slowest vanguard in the game goes back into the trashbin.

You might be the first person I've seen defend this trash mechanic. Well done.

Stahlrusse
08-31-2017, 03:29 PM
Wardens can still abuse vortex till no end but raiders stampede charge is too op.

Sure, and I am Bill Gates.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 03:38 PM
Wardens can still abuse vortex till no end but raiders stampede charge is too op.

Sure, and I am Bill Gates.

Yeah those are totally the same thing :rolleyes:

kbvlcvfkhgc
08-31-2017, 03:53 PM
Good to hear,

now when are you going to fix the Centurion? has this guy got compromising photographs or something? every character has been nerfed, tweaked, yet Centurion remains untouched, the Teflon Don?

what gives?

watsonclan335u
08-31-2017, 04:35 PM
Yeah those are totally the same thing :rolleyes:

In some ways its actually worse, stampede cant be instantly repeated and doesn't give up a guaranteed double light. EVERY viable hero in this game either has a good 50/50 or ridiculous speed PERIOD. Shouldn't the objective be to elevate all players to a position of rough equality? Instead when characters are continuously nerfed we end up with half the cast(or more) being totally redundant. This cycle is self fulfilling and will never stop. Stampede wasn't abused on console like it was in these tourneys as are most of the other changes that come live with this game, time to consider separate tuning for console players because as it sits these are like two completely different games. I doubt that anyone would be happy to see whatever their main character go from competitive to trash overnight.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 04:46 PM
In some ways its actually worse, stampede cant be instantly repeated and doesn't give up a guaranteed double light. EVERY viable hero in this game either has a good 50/50 or ridiculous speed PERIOD. Shouldn't the objective be to elevate all players to a position of rough equality? Instead when characters are continuously nerfed we end up with half the cast(or more) being totally redundant. This cycle is self fulfilling and will never stop. Stampede wasn't abused on console like it was in these tourneys as are most of the other changes that come live with this game, time to consider separate tuning for console players because as it sits these are like two completely different games. I doubt that anyone would be happy to see whatever their main character go from competitive to trash overnight.

Worse than shoulderbash which is why we saw warden over represented in recent tournaments and banned from others, oh wait that was actually raider. It absolutely was abused on consoles, just because you didn't see it or pretending like you didn't doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Also it doesn't matter if he was able to get double lights from it, it's still only 18 damage compared to the 28-30 damage raider got on top of stun and a lot more stamina damage. They are balancing things the wrong way I'll admit that but keep shugos run on raider is a step backwards.

S0Mi_xD
08-31-2017, 04:46 PM
Wardens can still abuse vortex till no end but raiders stampede charge is too op.

Sure, and I am Bill Gates.

Seems like your understanding of "no end" is the same like Devs about Berserkers "infinite combo"
Vortex 3 times and you are OOS.

Edit: Forgot this one -> :rolleyes:

Stahlrusse
08-31-2017, 05:18 PM
Seems like your understanding of "no end" is the same like Devs about Berserkers "infinite combo"
Vortex 3 times and you are OOS.

Edit: Forgot this one -> :rolleyes:

You are OOS and the enemy is almost dead. Good reasoning.
I don't really blame the players for using that technique but it is and will always be cheap as ****. But if you need to win so desperately, go ahead.

Stahlrusse
08-31-2017, 05:22 PM
Yeah those are totally the same thing :rolleyes:

You are right, warden's vortex is even worse. :rolleyes:

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 05:22 PM
You are OOS and the enemy is almost dead. Good reasoning.
I don't really blame the players for using that technique but it is and will always be cheap as ****. But if you need to win so desperately, go ahead.

54 damage is almost dead? For shinobi i guess

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 05:24 PM
You are right, warden's vortex is even worse. :rolleyes:

right which is why you see everyone picking warden in the competitive scene, oh whoops no ya don't.

Stahlrusse
08-31-2017, 05:25 PM
54 damage is almost dead? For shinobi i guess

You complain about 54 free damage?

Stahlrusse
08-31-2017, 05:27 PM
right which is why you see everyone picking warden in the competitive scene, oh whoops no ya don't.

because everyone knows that this mechanic is broken and people who respect themselves don't pick warden because of that.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 05:31 PM
You complain about 54 free damage?

It's not free though, gotta guess right everytime and guessing wrong can result in a punish.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 05:32 PM
because everyone knows that this mechanic is broken and people who respect themselves don't pick warden because of that.

Lol as oppose to the people who pick raider and brokenly use raider stampede charge, d'okay

Stahlrusse
08-31-2017, 05:33 PM
It's not free though, gotta guess right everytime and guessing wrong can result in a punish.

That is the point. You cannot rely on your reaction, you have to GUESS. And it should not rely on guesses in a fighting game. Especially not when some characters don't have these 50/50s and others do.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 05:37 PM
That is the point. You cannot rely on your reaction, you have to GUESS. And it should not rely on guesses in a fighting game. Especially not when some characters don't have these 50/50s and others do.

The warden has to guess the defender can actually react. There's a 300ms window from which the shoulder bash can't be cancelled and it would connect. Get the timing of that and you'll never be hit, not everyone can get the timing I understand that but it still very much is reactable. Tons of fighting games have 50/50s don't act like this is some new concept.

Stahlrusse
08-31-2017, 05:38 PM
Lol as oppose to the people who pick raider and brokenly use raider stampede charge, d'okay

the raider is a bit more far away from you when he initiates the charge.

the warden is right in your face and you cannot evade the first vortex when he is right in your face, especially when he started it just after a light attack.

then you evade and he gb's you and you cannot cgb.

I don't see why people think that is fair. I have no problem with the raider nerf btw, I have a problem with not nerfing warden's vortex.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 05:46 PM
the raider is a bit more far away from you when he initiates the charge.

the warden is right in your face and you cannot evade the first vortex when he is right in your face, especially when he started it just after a light attack.

then you evade and he gb's you and you cannot cgb.

I don't see why people think that is fair. I have no problem with the raider nerf btw, I have a problem with not nerfing warden's vortex.

If you do the charge correctly it comes out almost instantly and becomes a guessing game dodge and potentially get gbed or stand still and potentially get stampeded. Also can't punish the raider when you dodge. If you do try to light attack him out of it you can potentially get grabbed anyway since it has hyper armor. It's far safer than wardens with far more damage. Not even close to being the same.

Stahlrusse
08-31-2017, 06:03 PM
If you do the charge correctly it comes out almost instantly and becomes a guessing game dodge and potentially get gbed or stand still and potentially get stampeded. Also can't punish the raider when you dodge. If you do try to light attack him out of it you can potentially get grabbed anyway since it has hyper armor. It's far safer than wardens with far more damage. Not even close to being the same.

Still, it should also be nerfed.

Stahlrusse
08-31-2017, 06:08 PM
If you do the charge correctly it comes out almost instantly and becomes a guessing game dodge and potentially get gbed or stand still and potentially get stampeded. Also can't punish the raider when you dodge. If you do try to light attack him out of it you can potentially get grabbed anyway since it has hyper armor. It's far safer than wardens with far more damage. Not even close to being the same.

Ok, I'm done. If you still believe Warden's vortex spam is ok, then so be it. I don't care, I made my points.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 06:08 PM
Still, it should also be nerfed.

It already has been twice.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 06:11 PM
Ok, I'm done. If you still believe Warden's vortex spam is ok, then so be it. I don't care, I made my points.

Yep I do think it's okay since it has many counters and pretty much the only viable too he has. Without it he's a crappy Orochi.

S0Mi_xD
08-31-2017, 06:44 PM
You are OOS and the enemy is almost dead. Good reasoning.
I don't really blame the players for using that technique but it is and will always be cheap as ****. But if you need to win so desperately, go ahead.

So 54 dmg (3x18dmg if you go for safe max dmg) = Almost dead.
Nice to know, so if i hit with my berserkers top heavy combo finisher (55dmg ) = my enemy is pretty much dead... YESSS *A*

Also for those who still don't know what vortex is .... If the enemy is OOS, it wiil be dangerous to dodge, and you can't roll out - this moment warden can "spam" shoulderbash pretty safe.
Most people who still use Vortex, "spam" it until they OOS (3 times most of the time in a battle situation)

After warden runs out of stamina, you are nearly full again and have the advantage.

Netcode_err_404
08-31-2017, 06:53 PM
So 54 dmg (3x18dmg if you go for safe max dmg) = Almost dead.
Nice to know, so if i hit with my berserkers top heavy combo finisher (55dmg ) = my enemy is pretty much dead... YESSS *A*

Also for those who still don't know what vortex is .... If the enemy is OOS, it wiil be dangerous to dodge, and you can't roll out - this moment warden can "spam" shoulderbash pretty safe.
Most people who still use Vortex, "spam" it until they OOS (3 times most of the time in a battle situation)

After warden runs out of stamina, you are nearly full again and have the advantage.

only withclasses that have UB openers. Otherwise OOS is just as safe as normal state.

S0Mi_xD
08-31-2017, 07:46 PM
only withclasses that have UB openers. Otherwise OOS is just as safe as normal state.

even with berserker and orochi i can pressure enemies who are OOS, the only difference is, you can't keep the enemy OOS like heroes with melee attacks

watsonclan335u
08-31-2017, 08:41 PM
Yep I do think it's okay since it has many counters and pretty much the only viable too he has. Without it he's a crappy Orochi.

So where do you think it leaves Raider without a decent 50/50? I'll tell you: a hero that's inferior in every way to a "crappy Orochi"

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 08:47 PM
So where do you think it leaves Raider without a decent 50/50? I'll tell you: a hero that's inferior in every way to a "crappy Orochi"

Not really, they are pretty close. Would be great if raider was viable in competitive but shugo cheese isn't the answer.

watsonclan335u
08-31-2017, 09:21 PM
Not really, they are pretty close. Would be great if raider was viable in competitive but shugo cheese isn't the answer.
Shugo charge was completely different, it used to knock all opponents over in his wake wiping out an entire team, if Raider is lucky enough to land the stampede then at most you lose some stamina, I remember shugo charge hell clearly and it's not comparable.

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 09:40 PM
Shugo charge was completely different, it used to knock all opponents over in his wake wiping out an entire team, if Raider is lucky enough to land the stampede then at most you lose some stamina, I remember shugo charge hell clearly and it's not comparable.

Not some stamina, most of your stamina Plus you also lose 28-30 health. As ineffective you make it sound it makes me wonder why anyone in competitive would continue to use him. Weird.

watsonclan335u
08-31-2017, 10:53 PM
Not some stamina, most of your stamina Plus you also lose 28-30 health. As ineffective you make it sound it makes me wonder why anyone in competitive would continue to use him. Weird.

Since the last of two nerds to stamp. No one does

watsonclan335u
08-31-2017, 10:54 PM
Since the last of two nerds to stamp. No one does

Nerfs*

Antonioj26
08-31-2017, 11:00 PM
Nerfs*

But they were though

watsonclan335u
09-01-2017, 12:18 AM
But they were though

And the raider stampede spam really ran away with the win right? Ironically it was the use of a known cheating tactic that won against: yep a warden....because the warden has a......yep reliable 50/50. Results speak volumes

Antonioj26
09-01-2017, 12:49 AM
And the raider stampede spam really ran away with the win right? Ironically it was the use of a known cheating tactic that won against: yep a warden....because the warden has a......yep reliable 50/50. Results speak volumes

That confirmation bias though. Yeah warden wins one tournament for the first time yet you just look right past how well raider has been doing. Blows my mind that someone can actually defend this trash tactic of running back and forth until you can get a gb or pede

watsonclan335u
09-01-2017, 04:22 AM
That confirmation bias though. Yeah warden wins one tournament for the first time yet you just look right past how well raider has been doing. Blows my mind that someone can actually defend this trash tactic of running back and forth until you can get a gb or pede

I've seen the misuse you speak of in the last joke of a tournament, there are some conditions surrounding it however: first off, it was on PC(I've never seen someone be able to abuse the move like that on console) and second there have already been nerfs to stampede since it was buffed in the first place. I'm not so much defending the move as much as I am protesting the neutering of the character into obscurity once again. He simply has no tools to compete in anything effectively other than a gankfest. Heavies are strong but anyone can parry them like a god and an orochi or wardens lights come in under his own, leaving only a decent GB as the basis for his existence(and everyone loves getting dirty ledged right) personally I'm starting to think every character should have the 50/50 taken away, but then what? The slower characters would be totally obsolete. Maybe giving everyone a 50/50 would work but then the asassins would be so OP. Interested to hear what others think the solution should be.

Antonioj26
09-01-2017, 04:47 AM
I've seen the misuse you speak of in the last joke of a tournament, there are some conditions surrounding it however: first off, it was on PC(I've never seen someone be able to abuse the move like that on console) and second there have already been nerfs to stampede since it was buffed in the first place. I'm not so much defending the move as much as I am protesting the neutering of the character into obscurity once again. He simply has no tools to compete in anything effectively other than a gankfest. Heavies are strong but anyone can parry them like a god and an orochi or wardens lights come in under his own, leaving only a decent GB as the basis for his existence(and everyone loves getting dirty ledged right) personally I'm starting to think every character should have the 50/50 taken away, but then what? The slower characters would be totally obsolete. Maybe giving everyone a 50/50 would work but then the asassins would be so OP. Interested to hear what others think the solution should be.

Like I said I get wanting to keep your character viable in high levels of play, but stampede cheese is not the way to do it. If the move was hardly used on console then what is your gripe with it being taken away? I don't get how you discount its effectiveness and then acknowledge it was the only thing keeping him relevant. Why it would be less effective on console also makes no sense to me. I don't think everyone having 50/50s is the answer and tbh it's hard to see what the real answer would be. This games balance is atrocious between all the bugs and unlock tech it makes it difficult to pin point exactly what can be done to fix It.

watsonclan335u
09-01-2017, 04:55 AM
Like I said I get wanting to keep your character viable in high levels of play, but stampede cheese is not the way to do it. If the move was hardly used on console then what is your gripe with it being taken away? I don't get how you discount its effectiveness and then acknowledge it was the only thing keeping him relevant. Why it would be less effective on console also makes no sense to me. I don't think everyone having 50/50s is the answer and tbh it's hard to see what the real answer would be. This games balance is atrocious between all the bugs and unlock tech it makes it difficult to pin point exactly what can be done to fix It.

It's the fact that you might use it more than it is the effective use of itself, having either stampede or running attack keeps turtles guessing and possibly opening up the fight, without a viable alternative opener then running attack is simply dodged and punished. The entire battle is hinged on a solid opener. Which platform do you personally play on Antonio?

Antonioj26
09-01-2017, 05:12 AM
It's the fact that you might use it more than it is the effective use of itself, having either stampede or running attack keeps turtles guessing and possibly opening up the fight, without a viable alternative opener then running attack is simply dodged and punished. The entire battle is hinged on a solid opener. Which platform do you personally play on Antonio?

I play on PlayStation. Still not understanding how it would be less effective on console from the explanation you gave. Are you saying you will be using it more on PC because you need to open up turtles therefor it stronger? If that's the case that makes zero sense.

watsonclan335u
09-01-2017, 05:42 AM
I play on PlayStation. Still not understanding how it would be less effective on console from the explanation you gave. Are you saying you will be using it more on PC because you need to open up turtles therefor it stronger? If that's the case that makes zero sense.

It seldom connects with an opponent(except when it was first buffed) on PS4, the faster frames on PC made it much quicker to initiate. Unless you happen to be practically on top of your opponent or hitting them from behind, it seldom works. Are you getting hit by it a lot from other raiders?