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CraytonRoberts
07-28-2004, 08:27 AM
I've often wondered what the wingtip smoke is supposed to indicate. I have the vague impression it happens more often in tight turns, but I'm not sure. I haven't read about it in any aircraft publications.

CraytonRoberts
07-28-2004, 08:27 AM
I've often wondered what the wingtip smoke is supposed to indicate. I have the vague impression it happens more often in tight turns, but I'm not sure. I haven't read about it in any aircraft publications.

Zyzbot
07-28-2004, 08:31 AM
That's not smoke..it is condensation:

Link:

http://www.eng.vt.edu/fluids/msc/gallery/vortex/raf_wt.htm

Supr
07-28-2004, 08:45 AM
nice link. cool pics. and that should explain the condensation.

Still, not as pretty as the real wingtip smoke. Its such nice shades of green and pink.

LeadSpitter_
07-28-2004, 09:06 AM
I wish they would give us an option to turn it off. Theres still annoying people who press it when your shooting them down and blinking thier lights.

Or maybe eliminate it all together and make a generic smoke pod payload for all aircraft that acts like a heavy bomb to make people not want to use it when fighting.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

CraytonRoberts
07-28-2004, 10:33 AM
I don't agree that it's condensation . It dosen'tr necessarily occur at high altitude, and it's on only the plane being flown , Again, what was it's function on "real" planes?
It's enabled in Controls setting, yet also seems to appear spontaneously. Whta's the explanation?
Bob Roberts

KarayaEine
07-28-2004, 10:35 AM
Leadspitter,

I think he's referring to the 'smoke' that appears when you are near or right at a stall. Not the green and red tip smoke option.

I've often wondered why they modeled this 'stall' condensation in the game. It usually only occurs in very humid air. I can't imagine it's always that humid on all the map locations and altitudes there are. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Johann

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Chuck_Older
07-28-2004, 10:36 AM
Crayton-

do you mean the actual function "wingtip smoke" that's in the commands menu?

That's for aerobatics, and it can also be used to demonstrate aerobatical manuevers in an instructor and pupil setting.

*****************************
Killers in America work seven days a week
~ Clash

SeaFireLIV
07-28-2004, 10:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
I wish they would give us an option to turn it off. Theres still annoying people who press it when your shooting them down and blinking thier lights.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know the guys talking about the `contrail` effect here... But regarding LS`s point on the red/blue smoke, I and a squad wingman had this happen online the other day.

My Wingman was chasing the 190 and he switched his smoke on while twisting and turning. It seemed an obvious attempt to cause slowdown.

It didn`t cause slowdown, but then my wingie ran out of ammo, so I took over. It never slowed things down for me either, but was very annoying and did slightly obscure my view.

When the 190 flyer realised he still hadn`t lost me (I`ll bet he pressed PRINTSCREEN a few times too), he dropped his gears? Why? To make me overshoot, or say `I surrender?`

Whatever, I shot him down. The smoke trick had already guaranteed his destruction a LONG time ago!

And the blue/red smoke should be server-side comtrolled.

civildog
07-28-2004, 11:58 AM
My squadmates and I often use short pops os smoke to help find each other to form up after a mission or as signals when not on Teamspeak. Like the flares used in real life.

Not as "don't shoot me" signal to others...that's just cowardly. Only makes you easier to shoot at.

The vortex condensation is what I think he's talking about. Comes off as a result of the boundary layer disruption but usually only happens in high-speed manuevers in humid or extremely cold air. Gotta be wet up there. i was surprised to see it here because I didn't think a spinning B-17 (which I see it happen with a lot) generated enough velocity to create the vertices needed. You see it all the time with things like F-16's and such.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v304/civildog/CivilDogsignatureMASTER2.jpg

I often think the whole world is out to get me, but then I remember that some of the smaller nations are neutral.

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Zyzbot
07-28-2004, 12:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CraytonRoberts:
I don't agree that it's condensation . It dosen'tr necessarily occur at high altitude, and it's on only the plane being flown , Again, what was it's function on "real" planes?
It's enabled in Controls setting, yet also seems to appear spontaneously. Whta's the explanation?
Bob Roberts<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't have to occur at high altitude. The Tornado in the link I posted is at low altitude. It can occur when planes pull high G's ...but I have also seen it on airliners in high humidity. If you search wingtip vortices on the web you'll get better explanations than I can give you.

The Wingtip Smoke control is something entirely different.

Chuck_Older
07-28-2004, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Crayton-

do you mean the actual function "wingtip smoke" that's in the commands menu?

That's for aerobatics, and it can also be used to demonstrate aerobatical manuevers in an instructor and pupil setting.

*****************************
Killers in America work seven days a week
~ Clash
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disregard this post- I misunderstood

*****************************
Killers in America work seven days a week
~ Clash

Zyzbot
07-28-2004, 12:23 PM
I found this explanation:

"VIZUALIZATION OF VORTICES BY CONDENSATION
The reason that vortices can be visualized by condensation is due to the fact that the vortex core is a region of low pressure. This lowering of pressure can be understood by considering the fluid mechanist's trusty tool, the Bernoulli equation.

When a strong vortex is formed, say at a wing tip, the swirl component of the velocity causes the velocities to become considerably larger than the surrounding flow. In the latter regions, the flow speeds are still on the order of (or even approximately equal to) those of the freestream. According to the steady state Bernoulli equation, the pressures should become very small within the vortex. In many cases of interest, the flow density is approximately constant and the temperatures must also drop well below those of the surrounding flow. If the ambient air is sufficiently humid, the low pressures and temperatures will cause the water vapor to condense, forming a "cloud" in the low pressure vortex.

The cores of the vortices are frequently seen to be "empty". This is the dark region in the center of the vortex seen in the above photo. (You may need to look at the full-size version.) The most likely reason is that centrifugal effects tend to throw the droplets away from the center.

In many cases, no condensation will be seen if the aircraft is in steady, level flight. It is only when the pilot cranks the plane into a high-g maneuver that the lift increases to the point where condensation can occur. The condensation therefore gives us a "time-accurate" monitor of the lift variation.

In aeronautical applications, such lift-generated vortices are often accompanied by condensation over the wings..."

CraytonRoberts
07-28-2004, 01:04 PM
Such an elegant explanation. So Zyzgot is right, and that's why I've seen this phenomenon with tight fast turns. Thabks for the info.
Bob Roberts

LeadSpitter_
07-28-2004, 01:31 PM
i misunderstood crayton, I thought he was speaking of wingtip smoke, not high G accelerated turn codensation trails.

but with the wingtip smoke and flahsing lights it doesnt lag for me. It just looks like it should not be in the game during fighting.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

Freycinet
07-28-2004, 02:24 PM
To add to the above explanation:

The vortices are created because there's low pressure on the top of the wing (the suction that keeps the plane up) and higher pressure below the wing.

At the wingtip the high-pressure air below has the chance to swirl around the tip and move into the low pressure area on top of the wing. This movement sets the vortex going.

On modern planes they sometimes install winglets to impede the movement, because it also creates drag.

Skullin
07-28-2004, 02:30 PM
You guys got it all wrong!! it's for writing your name in the sky when you are bored ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Hawgdog
07-28-2004, 02:37 PM
I use it often.
I think its a hoot.
After shooting down someone with high score a roll & smoke, looks like a DNA trail.
Locating as mentioned beyond icons.
Buzzing someone on the airfield instead of vulching.
Poor light early/late maps a brilliant way to mark a target high speed pass, you realize a AA is in the tree's. Hit the smoke and make another pass.
I dont think it slows down the game at all

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When you get to Hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent you!

El Turo
07-28-2004, 03:03 PM
If I ever poke my head into the no-cockpit full-radar servers I'll sometimes hit the wingtip smoke, landing light and nav lights because I figure it doesn't much matter.. there's no stealth anyway and I find it a bit funny to let it all hang out.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Also, some kind of award has to go to the funniest use of tip-smoke I've ever seen.. with a TB-3 loaded up with two Ratas and they ALL had their tip smoke turned on as he did aerobatics. LOL. I didn't have the heart to blast the poor sods, I was laughing too hard.

Hehe..

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
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was once
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I thought,
reloading my rifle.

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Red_Russian13
07-28-2004, 03:35 PM
I was flying online a while ago and some guy was flying around with navigation lights and landing lights on. It made it easy to find him...What's your take on why he would do this? Arrogance? Or would it have some tactical application? Not in the real world mind you, but that bloody landing light seemed awful bright during the day...What are your thoughts?

Red Russian

El Turo
07-28-2004, 03:56 PM
Dunno.. was it a wonder woman view map-radar server? That's the only time I really fart around like that unless I'm just in a goofy mood. In the radar-servers I figure it doesn't much matter anyway, I'm going to be seen regardless.. might as well goof around and have fun with it for the limited amount of time I'm going to be in there waiting for the coop fellas to get done or for a slot in Warbirds to open up.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

jazman777
07-28-2004, 05:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red_Russian13:
that bloody landing light seemed awful bright during the day...What are your thoughts?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was flying around once, and was playing with radiator settings, when I accidentally pressed the "T" key. I looked around and found it odd that I was putting out wingtip smoke: "Hmm, I'm nowhere near stalling." I quickly drew a swarm and got killed. I've remapped the T key to nothing.

Cajun76
07-28-2004, 05:56 PM
I was walking around base one day, saw a C-130 going ballz to the wall at about 500 ft. The pilot put it on wingtip, hauled back and managed to get a vapor trail off the wingtips. Very cool. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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Merlin (FZG_Immel)
07-28-2004, 06:16 PM
depending on weather, and on big AoA , condensation can be very impressive !

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/628462/L/

Swiss Hornet Powaaaaaaaa !

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AKA_PLT_VICTOR
07-28-2004, 07:09 PM
I used to see this on earlier versions of FB. Not so sure it's still there on 2.04. I would usually see it on 190's dropping out of the sky picking me off as they pulled on the stick to level off and back up again. Almost like the tornado picture above. I would see the low pressure condensation over the wing along with the contrail. Can't say I seen it in 2.04 yet.