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View Full Version : 50 Cal. frustration



SodBuster43
04-19-2004, 12:27 AM
Lately I have been playing with USA planes equipped with 50 cal mg's. These exhibit some very odd behavior.

In offline play they are very effective and I can quickly kill 109's and 190's with ease. In the QMB I can kill four maybe five of them before running out of ammo. Of course this is against average AI. In online play 109's and 190's seam to shrug them off to the point of being rediculous. I have practiced enough to know where the darn bullets are flying.

I have emptied my guns into dozens of 109's and 190's over the last few nights and they just keep going without a scratch or maybe they occasionally start smoking but continue to fly, climb, etc. as if unhurt.

I am sure I will get the usual smart remarks regarding this but it is becoming increasingly annoying to say the least.

I have been playing on WAR_CLOUDS and my ping has been 50 or 60 consistantly. My game runs smoothly both offline and online.

Any clue why the big difference? Is aircraft damage not being registered properly in online play?

SodBuster43
04-19-2004, 12:27 AM
Lately I have been playing with USA planes equipped with 50 cal mg's. These exhibit some very odd behavior.

In offline play they are very effective and I can quickly kill 109's and 190's with ease. In the QMB I can kill four maybe five of them before running out of ammo. Of course this is against average AI. In online play 109's and 190's seam to shrug them off to the point of being rediculous. I have practiced enough to know where the darn bullets are flying.

I have emptied my guns into dozens of 109's and 190's over the last few nights and they just keep going without a scratch or maybe they occasionally start smoking but continue to fly, climb, etc. as if unhurt.

I am sure I will get the usual smart remarks regarding this but it is becoming increasingly annoying to say the least.

I have been playing on WAR_CLOUDS and my ping has been 50 or 60 consistantly. My game runs smoothly both offline and online.

Any clue why the big difference? Is aircraft damage not being registered properly in online play?

GK.
04-19-2004, 12:33 AM
fixed in the patch, which is approx 2 weeks away.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*
"P40's can't out run the zero, so we'll have to outfly them." -Ben Affleck

SodBuster43
04-19-2004, 12:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
fixed in the patch, which is approx 2 weeks away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank goodness http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

glottis77
04-19-2004, 12:42 AM
same for me. offline a 109 goes down after 2-3 bursts, yesterday online i emptied my full ammo and the thing barely smoked although i hit it with at least 5 bursts.

Vortex_uk
04-19-2004, 01:16 AM
Are you sure you had Realistic Gunnery ticked on? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

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LuftLuver
04-19-2004, 02:04 AM
Load up version 1.22.

The comparison between the .50s in 1.22 vs AEP will boggle your mind.

I sure hope 2.05 is much like 1.22.

Red_Storm
04-19-2004, 02:54 AM
.50's are extremely powerful (atleast offline) at the moment. They will clip off wings in short bursts and set FW-190's on fire with a split second push of the trigger. Individual rounds are more powerful than individual MG-151/20 rounds. Try it.

I don't know about on-line. Could be that they're totally botched there.

JG51_Arnie
04-19-2004, 03:13 AM
Last week online I was totally shot to pieces in my 109 several times though (by P51's). I guess it has alot to do with being online as well, even though your ping is good, the other side can have connection problems, perhaps temporarily. But I havent seen such a drastic difference between the server I ran in Hyperlobby and the QMB myself, just a slight decrease for me.

Aaron_GT
04-19-2004, 03:28 AM
I wouldn't draw any conclusions at all from
online play as there are so many other factors
involved. It could be that the posters' network
connections are problematic, leading to 'rubber
bullet' syndrome. Or equally those of the planes
being targeted. You'd need a lot of examples
from a lot of different situations from a lot
of people to draw any conclusion, not a very
few online examples.

'Rubber bullet' syndrome
has been an issue with every online game I
have played, flight sim, FPS, etc. If you can
get a reliable connection, and everyone else
in the game has one too, it is reduced. Even
things like a bad wireless connection to your
ADSL router/modem can cause problems with
latency and packet loss.

Cosmonaut.
04-19-2004, 04:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SodBuster43:
Lately I have been playing with USA planes equipped with 50 cal mg's. These exhibit some very odd behavior.

In offline play they are very effective and I can quickly kill 109's and 190's with ease. In the QMB I can kill four maybe five of them before running out of ammo. Of course this is against average AI. In online play 109's and 190's seam to shrug them off to the point of being rediculous. I have practiced enough to know where the darn bullets are flying.

I have emptied my guns into dozens of 109's and 190's over the last few nights and they just keep going without a scratch or maybe they occasionally start smoking but continue to fly, climb, etc. as if unhurt.

I am sure I will get the usual smart remarks regarding this but it is becoming increasingly annoying to say the least.

I have been playing on WAR_CLOUDS and my ping has been 50 or 60 consistantly. My game runs smoothly both offline and online.

Any clue why the big difference? Is aircraft damage not being registered properly in online play?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree!

I have unloaded a considerable amount of .50 cal rounds into 109's and 190's just to see them remain one hundred percent combat effective and it seems like just the turbulence from a 109 round will take you down http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . When they occasionally do fall out of the sky I think its because of all the added weight from the amount of Pb (http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/media/snds/Pb.au) I have shot into them lol j/k .

When flying a fighter with cannons I don't have this problem at all and a quick burst is enough to cause some severe damage. I haven't played IL2FB regularly in a number of months but I don't remember feeling this frustrated with the lack of damage to enemy fighters when firing at them with .50 cals.

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‚"divided we fall, together we fly‚"Ě

Elite_Gizz
04-19-2004, 05:31 AM
i could not agree more, i refuse to fly any US 50 cal only planes for just this reason! i see lots of very nice flashes and twinkling lights but no damage, i think even the cockpit repels 50 cal's

any other MG in the game is deadly the russian Mg has to be the best in game and i have no problems with these at all but the 50. cals are just a waste of time imo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Best Regards

Gizz
"CO" =Elite=

jensenpark
04-19-2004, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SodBuster43:
Lately I have been playing with USA planes equipped with 50 cal mg's. These exhibit some very odd behavior.

In offline play they are very effective and I can quickly kill 109's and 190's with ease. In the QMB I can kill four maybe five of them before running out of ammo. Of course this is against average AI. In online play 109's and 190's seam to shrug them off to the point of being rediculous. I have practiced enough to know where the darn bullets are flying.

I have emptied my guns into dozens of 109's and 190's over the last few nights and they just keep going without a scratch or maybe they occasionally start smoking but continue to fly, climb, etc. as if unhurt.

I am sure I will get the usual smart remarks regarding this but it is becoming increasingly annoying to say the least.

I have been playing on WAR_CLOUDS and my ping has been 50 or 60 consistantly. My game runs smoothly both offline and online.

Any clue why the big difference? Is aircraft damage not being registered properly in online play?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sodbuster: don't worry...it's not you...I was in a 109 last night that you were laying into for quite a while (plane was shaking with bullet hits non-stop)...and I just kept going and going trailing smoke all the way back to home base. I think you still got the kill when I overshot the runway - couldn't see it with all the oil and smoke! When I "alt E" to walk away from the crash I did see I was brought down by Sodbuster

http://www.corsair-web.com/thistler/rtfoxint.jpg
Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

Bull-Dog.
04-19-2004, 06:06 AM
Sodbuster
I also have found a huge difference when flying on line. Not just with the 50s but whith all guns.
I discovered that I was just a little out with my aim, so most of my shots were missing.I have adjusted my deflected aim slightly and get closer to compensate, and now have more success.
I also have noticed this in reverse when I collect hits from A/C that from my veiw should have missed.
You have to make a visual adjustment when you are on line once you realise this you start to get better.
Practicing off line does not help.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/bull_dog/images/4-picture.jpg?0.9775497653600231

Metallicaner
04-19-2004, 06:39 AM
Jeez, I was just about to post a topic about the same problem, but it appears that I don't need to and that I'm not the only one with this problem http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

VW-IceFire
04-19-2004, 06:45 AM
Apparently the dispersion is fixed in the upcoming patch which should mean less random hits and more concentrated fire on target when you do setup a good shot. This should boost the damage potential of the gun even without doing anything else to it...

Even offline the gun is somewhat weak in some places...but you can better anticipate and lay fire into an offline opponent due to the lack of lag time or warping.

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clint-ruin
04-19-2004, 06:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
I wouldn't draw any conclusions at all from
online play as there are so many other factors
involved. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From JTDs tests on AEP 2.00 gunnery I think we are actually looking at a problem with the way FB validates data from clients. There is a difference [10-15% IIRC] showing even in local [127.0.0.1] online games, and I think if lag and loss are factored in on top of that, we may be looking at FB outright ignoring a much larger percentage of what would previously have been accepted hits. Almost certain that the bug is in FBs anticheat code at this point.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

glottis77
04-19-2004, 06:58 AM
well i don't think the problem is if the bullets would hit th enemy from close range, because you can cleary see the plane being hit, parts falling off etc. it's simply that even after prolonged fire nothing serious, except for smoke maybe, happens. come on, once online i pounced the belly of a fw190 from maybe 50m for 2-3 seconds with "dauerfeuer"...and nothing.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-19-2004, 07:22 AM
We'll see with the patch the won't we? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif



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p1ngu666
04-19-2004, 08:03 AM
ive had this, kept getting closer and closer too 109, think i hadto red baron style kick rudder and shoot from behind and right.
and yes i was hitting the damn thing :P
was a ai plane in a coop i thinks. was pretty laggy

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SodBuster43
04-19-2004, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:

Sodbuster: don't worry...it's not you...I was in a 109 last night that you were laying into for quite a while (plane was shaking with bullet hits non-stop)...and I just kept going and going trailing smoke all the way back to home base. I think you still got the kill when I overshot the runway - couldn't see it with all the oil and smoke! When I "alt E" to walk away from the crash I did see I was brought down by Sodbuster<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL. I guess the Germans developed titanium 109's. At least sometimes it feels that way. There have been occasional nights when a few short bursts are all that is needed to send one down fast. But lately it has been as you described http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Thanks for this reply, I thought I was losing it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif Also, as of late, my kills are not registering at all. Last night was a good example of this as my score was 0 the entire night and I was quite sure I should have downed at least a few planes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

[This message was edited by SodBuster43 on Mon April 19 2004 at 08:06 AM.]

AcesHigh_AVG
04-19-2004, 09:28 AM
Yea i have the same problem with the .50s. Offline it takes only a short burst to bring down AI, but online you can empty your whole ammo load and still you won't bring one down easily.

gates123
04-19-2004, 09:33 AM
For the time being, untill all is fixed it seems that a convergence of about 250 is more effective then what I use to set it at which was 150. Last night online I ripped a few 109's in half with a p-38 from a dead 6. But yes its frusrating when you have too chase a 190 across the map to get it to smoke, only to run out of ammo just as you see their base approaching.

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/justin/1087/WWII/Images/Thumbs/TBf109AK.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

FW190fan
04-19-2004, 09:36 AM
Hopefully things will be better after the next patch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

By the way, if you really want to be frustrated with the .50 cal, try shooting down Lagg-3s and Sturmoviks with the B-239 over the Gulf http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

II_JG1Hartmann
04-19-2004, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SodBuster43:
Lately I have been playing with USA planes equipped with 50 cal mg's. These exhibit some very odd behavior.

In offline play they are very effective and I can quickly kill 109's and 190's with ease. In the QMB I can kill four maybe five of them before running out of ammo. Of course this is against average AI. In online play 109's and 190's seam to shrug them off to the point of being rediculous. I have practiced enough to know where the darn bullets are flying.

I have emptied my guns into dozens of 109's and 190's over the last few nights and they just keep going without a scratch or maybe they occasionally start smoking but continue to fly, climb, etc. as if unhurt.

I am sure I will get the usual smart remarks regarding this but it is becoming increasingly annoying to say the least.

I have been playing on WAR_CLOUDS and my ping has been 50 or 60 consistantly. My game runs smoothly both offline and online.

Any clue why the big difference? Is aircraft damage not being registered properly in online play?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey SB,
I wrote up a big thing on this back ont eh BF:1942 DC mode about latency and lag and lost packets etc. Let me do a quick summary.

1. It may be true that there is a issue with the guns when running in MP vs Offline. For that I'm not sure.

2. AI dont fly as well as a human does. An AI flies a preset evasion algorithm and as such it makes it easier to shoot down AI flown planes. A human will fly on the edge and do things unpredicatable. So as such all those rounds your tossing out hopping for a kill can miss many times. I love the spray adn prayers that then think they are awesome becasue they nailed your engine from 800m out!

3. Latency, Lag, Lost Packets- If you toss out 500 rounds do you think that the CPU can track all of those? I know that Oleg psoted some pic of solid bullet paths. How many of those were not tracked though? What happens most times is that you toss out ten rounds (example!) out of those ten rounds maybe on average 6-8 are actually able to be tracked by the CPU on both your machine and the server machine. Then you factor in the item that is largest single factor! That you are NOT a sharpshooter! When you are directory behind a plane your hit area is a paper laying on its side! A defelection shot guarentees you more damage due to more rounds impacting. SO add in rounds missing the target and in our example out of those ten rounds fired, maybe only 3 actually impact. So your down to less than 1/3 effectivness.

So in the future don't compare yourself from online to offline as a messure of your studliness.

End Transmission

Locust_
04-19-2004, 10:10 AM
Have u ever seen a .50 call round ?

There huge & as many of them as the p51 or p38 can fire per minute, they should shred ac into small lil flying parts with fire all over them

Come on Oleg ur getting more & more biased in your modleing.....

A yak3 can hose me from .79 & give my FWa9 a nasty fuel leak with thoes lil white bullits but 300 .50 call rounds cant bring one down ?

!!!

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/161sig.jpg

Fighter Sweeps is here come join the fun.....
http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

Locust_
04-19-2004, 10:11 AM
Try shooting down a ki84 with a p51 ONLINE


GOOD LUCK !!!!!! the bullits seem to be simply absorbed by the ki84s awsome rubber skin

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/161sig.jpg

Fighter Sweeps is here come join the fun.....
http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

Monty_Thrud
04-19-2004, 11:06 AM
I too feel i must add my tupence ha'penny worth...i'm the same as sodbuster, flown online in warclouds 44 and TOH and other servers on ubi and found the same results with the 'Stang Spit and P38 and other Us/Brit planes... i also noticed quite a bit of complaining from the axis side as to how overmoddled the P38, 'Stang are from a couple of guys who shot me down taking my wing off on his second hit the other taking my tail off...you just know these people dont fly allied planes or they wouldnt complain...its no wonder we were getting slaughterd repetedly

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"#2 Attack that ship".."#1..with what?".."#2 your ordnance DAMMIT!".."#1 my ordnance is in Olegs office, same place yours is".."#2 we'd better learn German then"

SodBuster43
04-19-2004, 12:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by II_JG1Hartmann:
........So in the future don't compare yourself from online to offline as a messure of your studliness.

End Transmission<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeesh, I wasn't claiming to be an ace. I was trying to make a point that there have been some planes that I know should have been ripped to shreds but weren't. I don't care if you are online or offline, if you are on target what is the difference. There are many online players that fly more poorly than the AI (including myself at times http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif). If I can nail the AI, why would these online players that fly nice smooth paths like the AI be any harder? Also, once you cripple a plane flown by one of the more experienced veterans of IL-2 they become easier pray as well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SodBuster43
04-19-2004, 12:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Locust_:
Have u ever seen a .50 call round ?

There huge & as many of them as the p51 or p38 can fire per minute, they should shred ac into small lil flying parts with fire all over them
!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a matter of fact I own an example of one 50 cal round somewhere in my collection. I bought it at an air museum. It is very impressive to look at. Would not want to be on the receiving end of one of these for surehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif